Ukraine General

[mistyronin 1181]

You know what liberal capitalism is in theory, but in practice it's a bit different especially for low end countries.

Long story short. Because of the liberal capitalism nowadays you from Serbia with a revolutionary idea can create a tiny company with almost no resources, publicize it through the internet for free, get money from people you don't and probably will never know, expand through half of the World without practically any limitation and become one of the richest man on Earth.

Which is the opposite as the colonialism and authoritarianism where you needed to be approved by your government to even start a company, your expansion was limited by the gov's desires, you needed to befriend your next-to-door oligarch, govs have the right to censor you and your stuff (like in Russia, where the Kremlin controls who can be in the Internet). Why do you think the US and most of the Africa, American and Asiatic countries got their independence from their metropolis? To have that freedom.

That's not theory, it's reality, it's happening. Just check how much good projects started with no-money and now have became big companies. Just check how good game ideas are being founded through kick-starter.

What's applied in Serbian companies like the one you mentioned has nothing to do with liberal capitalism, but this new colonialism that countries like Russia promote.

Edited March 25, 2015 by MistyRonin

[aleksadragutin 9]

Long story short. Because of the liberal capitalism nowadays you from Serbia with a revolutionary idea can create a tiny company with almost no resources, publicize it through the internet for free, get money from people you don't and probably will never know, expand through half of the World without practically any limitation and become one of the richest man on Earth.

Which is the opposite as the colonialism and authoritarianism where you needed to be approved by your government to even start a company, your expansion was limited by the gov's desires, you needed to befriend your next-to-door oligarch, govs have the right to censor you and your stuff (like in Russia, where the Kremlin controls who can be in the Internet). Why do you think the US and most of the Africa, American and Asiatic countries got their independence from their metropolis? To have that freedom.

That's not theory, it's reality, it's happening. Just check how much good projects started with no-money and now have became big companies. Just check how good game ideas are being founded through kick-starter.

That's a perk, but at whose expense am I spreading through half of the World? I'd have to buy smaller independent firms in other countries and shut them down (like EA games) to keep the monopoly, thus destroying the economies of those countries and forcing them to buy my product. And that's OK if I'm buying private firms, but when I buy a state firm by bribing politicians against the will of people, that's wrong. Thousands lose their jobs.

Virtual goods are one thing, but when it comes to oil, food, cars, fish... armies wage wars over such things (again, Iraq).

Edited March 25, 2015 by aleksadragutin

[mistyronin 1181]

That's a perk, but at whose expense am I spreading through half of the World? I'd have to buy smaller independent firms in other countries and shut them down (like EA games) to keep the monopoly, thus destroying the economies of those countries and forcing them to buy my product.

But the people in those countries that you say you are destroying have the same opportunities as you do. In the liberal-capitalist World you have the chances to reach the top for what you are and what you do, not due to your place of origin, your family or friends.

And the fact is that you don't force anyone to buy your product, is the market, the people who decide which product wants.

Nokia & Blackberry create good and affordable cell phones, they rise. They stop doing so, and become out-dated they fall. No matter how much power, money and influences the Nokia & Blackberry directives had, if Apple or Samsung come with better products, people will chose them.

That happened to Sega, to some degree with Microsoft, and others.

It's not like in authoritarian / colonial countries where the gov decides what people have to buy, and when... heck in authoritarian countries even decide which sport teams wins what...

[Tonci87 163]

Did you just skip over everything I wrote? And what you're saying is irrelevant to this discussion. Not even sure what it's suppose to mean. Yugoslavia is a proof that you're wrong. We had a very different, liberal communism. Agriculture and Industry was efficient and profitable, we had jeans, Rock n' Roll, freedom of movement, and above all good social programs for ordinary people. We even had economical growth, until the traitors privatized the companies and western firms that bought them closed them down.

Oh you had all that? Do you even understand at what cost? Sure, maybe everything was great in Serbia, but only because they paid those things by exploiting Croatia, Slovenia, Bosnia and the other nations. Because the only people in Croatia who had "good social programs" were party members, people working for the state or the army.

[aleksadragutin 9]

But the people in those countries that you say you are destroying have the same opportunities as you do. In the liberal-capitalist World you have the chances to reach the top for what you are and what you do, not due to your place of origin, your family or friends.

And the fact is that you don't force anyone to buy your product, is the market, the people who decide which product wants.

Nokia & Blackberry create good and affordable cell phones, they rise. They stop doing so, and become out-dated they fall. No matter how much power, money and influences the Nokia & Blackberry directives had, if Apple or Samsung come with better products, people will chose them.

That happened to Sega, to some degree with Microsoft, and others.

It's not like in authoritarian / colonial countries where the gov decides what people have to buy, and when... heck in authoritarian countries even decide which sport teams wins what...

Here's the milk example. We produce our own milk, but due to large imports of foreign milk our farmers are dying out. They can't do the same thing to other countries, because they don't have the startup capital, and there's the political situation, EU doesn't want our products and we cannot export to Russia because of the blockade. As to why we're importing milk and meat, no one really knows. Most likely political reasons.

---------- Post added at 21:35 ---------- Previous post was at 21:32 ----------

Oh you had all that? Do you even understand at what cost? Sure, maybe everything was great in Serbia, but only because they paid those things by exploiting Croatia, Slovenia, Bosnia and the other nations. Because the only people in Croatia who had "good social programs" were party members, people working for the state or the army.

Please stop with your "endangered" tone, you know your self you didn't have it any worse than us (most of the ex Yu rock came from Bosnia, so please). I can't go into another stupid argument.

[oxmox 73]

Ukraine leader fires powerful oligarch Kolomoisky as regional chief

Ukraine's president fired powerful tycoon Ihor Kolomoisky as a regional governor on Wednesday in a risky move that could affect the internal balance of power and Kiev's fight against Moscow-backed separatists.

Kolomoisky is one of a handful of so-called oligarchs who emerged in the early years after Ukraine's independence from the Soviet Union in 1991 to secure control over large sections of the economy, including key areas such as energy, and becoming key political players behind the scenes.

The 52-year-old Kolomoisky has been at the center of a political storm since armed and masked men, apparently loyal to him, briefly entered the offices of the state-owned oil monopoly UkrTransNafta in the capital Kiev last Thursday night after its director, his ally, was summarily replaced.

As governor of the eastern industrial region Dnipropetrovsk region, Kolomoisky, a banking, energy and media tycoon with a fortune that Forbes put at $1.8 billion last year, has been a valuable ally to the Kiev government in arming and financing militia groups and volunteer battalions there to hold off pro-Russian separatists.

There was no immediate word from Kolomoisky's camp on what his next step would be and whether his sacking as governor would affect his support for volunteer battalions that have fought alongside regular army in the east. The situation remains volatile with key cities such as Mariupol seen as under threat.

Some commentators suggest it could mark the start of an internal power struggle between Poroshenko and the powerful tycoon who has emerged from political upheaval and war in Ukraine to be the most dominant of the big business oligarchs controlling key parts of the economy.

But the conflict in the east, in which 6,000 people have been killed since last April, has altered the dynamics and the balance of forces among the super-rich with the Ukrainian media now talking of a "war of the oligarchs", commentators say.

Poroshenko himself built a billion-dollar empire in the confectionery business before becoming president last May after street protests ousted the Moscow-backed Viktor Yanukovich from power, triggering Russia's annexation of Crimea and the separatist rebellions in the east.

But deputy Leshchenko and other radical deputies accused Kolomoisky of making a crude power play which challenged the state and the President's legitimacy.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/03/25/us-ukraine-crisis-oligarch-idUSKBN0ML0CG20150325

Ultra-nationalist Ukrainian battalion gears up for more fighting

(Reuters) - The far-right Azov battalion, whose symbol resembles a black swastika on a yellow background, is preparing to defend the port city of Mariupol in southeastern Ukraine against a widely expected attack by pro-Russian separatists.

....the radical views of the commanders of a group affiliated to Ukraine's national guard which works alongside the army, and the use of symbols echoing Nazi emblems have caused alarm in the West and Russia, and could return to haunt Kiev's pro-Western leadership when fighting eventually ends.

"We don't like the ceasefire at all. As with the previous ones, it'll only lead to another offensive by the enemy," Azov commander Andriy Biletsky told Reuters while watching artillery drills at Urzuf, on the shores of the Sea of Azov, about 40 km south-west of Mariupol.

In 2008, Biletsky urged "thousands of young fanatic apostles" to advance its ideas.

He has since been elected to the Ukrainian parliament, riding a wave of an increased nationalist sentiment in Ukraine triggered by the war.

Biletsky has criticized Poroshenko for losing out on in an information war against Russia and the rebels, and is dismissive of the chances for a negotiated solution to the conflict.

"How can we settle it peacefully if part of our territory is occupied? Will they give us Crimea back? How can there be a peaceful way to stop an aggression?," he said.

Some Ukrainian politicians have defended Biletsky and his troops as patriots. There is lingering doubt, however, over what role Azov might play when the military conflict ends and whether its members could challenge President Petro Poroshenko and his government or threaten the wider public security.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/03/25/us-ukraine-crisis-azov-idUSKBN0ML0XJ20150325

US House votes to provide lethal aid to Ukraine

A resolution to provide lethal aid to Ukrainian security forces has passed the US House with broad bipartisan support. The move puts added pressure on the White House, which is also considering delivering weapons.

Engel warned that Russia under President Vladimir Putin has become "a clear threat to half century of American commitment to an investment in a Europe that is whole, free and at peace. A Europe where borders are not changed by force."

http://www.dw.de/us-house-votes-to-provide-lethal-aid-to-ukraine/a-18335605

[Tonci87 163]

Here's the milk example. We produce our own milk, but due to large imports of foreign milk our farmers are dying out. They can't do the same thing to other countries, because they don't have the startup capital, and there's the political situation, EU doesn't want our products and we cannot export to Russia because of the blockade. As to why we're importing milk and meat, no one really knows. Most likely political reasons.

---------- Post added at 21:35 ---------- Previous post was at 21:32 ----------

Please stop with your "endangered" tone, you know your self you didn't have it any worse than us (most of the ex Yu rock came from Bosnia, so please). I can't go into another stupid argument.

Yeah, because you´d loose that argument, again.

Listen, Yugoslavia had accumulated a huge debt by the time it fell apart, what do you think how the progressive communism in Serbia was paid? It was paid with those debts, and it was paid by taking the gains produced in the other republics and using them mostly in Serbia and in some big cities. That is how it worked. What do you think why the Slovenes, Croats and Bosniaks wanted to get out of yugoslavia and why many of them hated communism? They saw that their gains and profits went right to the state, they saw that party members, employees of the state and military officers (both those groups had to be party members) lived a much better life than they did and they saw that people in Serbia had a much better life than they did. Add to that the nationalism and you have the reasons.

[mistyronin 1181]

Here's the milk example. We produce our own milk, but due to large imports of foreign milk our farmers are dying out. They can't do the same thing to other countries, because they don't have the startup capital, and there's the political situation, EU doesn't want our products and we cannot export to Russia because of the blockade. As to why we're importing milk and meat, no one really knows. Most likely political reasons.

Curious. In fact it's Russia that is banning European and US products, not otherwise:

(RT) Russia bans agricultural products from EU, USA, Australia, Norway, Canada

Russian PM Dmitry Medvedev has signed a decree on the full ban for imports of beef, pork, poultry meat, fish, cheese, milk, vegetables and fruit from Australia, Canada, the EU, the US and Norway.

But I agree with you that the EU over-protection of the farmers it's indecent. But that just proofs that in Europe the liberal-capitalism is not followed entirely. In fact most of the EU countries have a mixture of liberal and socialist economies.

[oxmox 73]

This is the answer to the sanctions and export bans into Russia...?

[mistyronin 1181]

This is the answer to the sanctions and export bans into Russia...?

To the sanctions basically.

[oxmox 73]

To the sanctions basically.

Yeah, the sanctions cover also most food exports. Actually the same or similar products like in this RT report and what is Russia doing now.

Maybe there is somewhere a list around with more details which products are banned for exports.

@didnt see its an RT report from 2014 and did wonder already if there would be new reactions.

[aleksadragutin 9]

Yeah, because you´d loose that argument, again.

Listen, Yugoslavia had accumulated a huge debt by the time it fell apart, what do you think how the progressive communism in Serbia was paid? It was paid with those debts, and it was paid by taking the gains produced in the other republics and using them mostly in Serbia and in some big cities. That is how it worked. What do you think why the Slovenes, Croats and Bosniaks wanted to get out of yugoslavia and why many of them hated communism? They saw that their gains and profits went right to the state, they saw that party members, employees of the state and military officers (both those groups had to be party members) lived a much better life than they did and they saw that people in Serbia had a much better life than they did. Add to that the nationalism and you have the reasons.

I'm not even going to respond to your provocation. You know you're talking bullshit so why bother. Why oh why do you insist on spreading the awareness of your victim position every time, it's becoming pathological.

[ProfTournesol 956]

What's funny is to say that former Yugoslavia was a Communist paradise. Nobody would ever believe it. I went to Croatia one year before the war (on holidays), and saw how much hate there were here, and how poor people were. But were you even born at that time ?

[vilas 477]

What's funny is to say that former Yugoslavia was a Communist paradise.

comparing to other communist blog state it was

as they say it was concentration camp - Yugoslavia was the least harsh barrack, Poland was the most funny barrack (many stupid ideas that can be compared to monthy python sense of humor and monthy-python sense of humor in our culture as reaction on nonsensnes of regime called "Bareya" from name of movie -director ) ,

as he said in former Y you could have private business, nowhere else, moreover , there was policy that former Y bandits may steal but abroad and than come back with stolen money (there was such legend before 1989)

they didn't have many restrictions that others had,

also Poland has little less restrictions in religious or agriculture stuff,

Y never had Stalinism which we had , they didn't have Stasi, SB, NKVD , they do not know what conditions we had in 50s, split of Y and civil war was because commie multiculti bomb exploded

Edited March 26, 2015 by vilas

[Tonci87 163]

they didn't have Stasi, SB, NKVD ,

We had the UDBA the secret service that murdered Croatians living in exile across the whole world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Security_Administration#Eliminations.5B4.5D

[vilas 477]

were they hunting for WW2-Nazi cooperators on exile ? in some cases yes, so it was justified to punish Hitler cooperants on exile (a lot of WW2 nazi coopeators escaped abroad from all of our countries)

but 200 assasinations that WIKI says is nothing to hundreds thousands in my country

thats why i said you didn't had what we had

of course you see assasination as evil - but i say about scale of repression

you were battoned by police on street - in my country they were keeping man in cold water during winter without food and with leg of chair put into his anus beating him,

makes difference ,

so i do not say about lack of repression - i say about incomparable scale of those repressions (including confiscation of private property which probably not touched former Y on scale it touched PL)

repressions were in all our countries, simply in one much bigger and in other much smaller - thats why Serbs do not see it as evil as we (plus as you said - they were opressors , like USSR which people also do not see evil in it, cause they were oppressors in our countries not even saying about other nation which were 40% of officers in Polish version of NKVD, you had Serbs, we had "our Serbs" which changed names from -stein, -mann, -itz -in -ych (Russian and Jewish names) to -ski (typical Polish name) after Stalin death by secret decree to change name into Polish to vanish orginal ethinic roots of officers of secret police and nowadays their kids have other names given in late 50s, a lot of them moved to Israel in 1968, some to Sweden or UK (where few communist criminals were hiding before justice after 1989 and were not deported back to PL to face courts cause they played "antisemitism" card and west was buying this fairytale knowing holocaust , so commie criminals were using holocaust card to say they are hiding before antisemitism, while in fact they were hiding because they were hunted for murder and reason they left PL for example in 1968 was not antisemitism, but commie party was clearing country from Stalin administration - it was internal fight between 2 groups of commies for power)

in former Y - Serbs were oppressors in my country USSR sent Soviet Jewish commies and Russian commies to rule aparatus of repression (there was not enough Polish commies to fulfill duties cause in PL there was not much pro-commie support , there was civil war till 1947 here from 1944 , not much wide known fact from history, that for PL WW2 not ended in 1945, we had civil war which was lasting ca. 2 years , people were trying to get rid of communist system by force (a lot of WW2 guerillas still were fighting with new enemy - commies who were confiscating private property, because in Stalin era they were trying to turn us to another USSR republic while people were traditionally connected to private property unlike in Russia where farmers had nothing during Tsar, we had many "small nobles" which had some hectares of land or "Kulaks" - rich farmers)

in this civil war after WW2 much much much more people died than 200 noted by Wikipedia about f. Y.

question to you - do you had private property confiscation in former Y ?

Edited March 26, 2015 by vilas

[Tonci87 163]

were they hunting for WW2-Nazi cooperators on exile ? in some cases yes, so it was justified to punish Hitler cooperants on exile (a lot of WW2 nazi coopeators escaped abroad from all of our countries)

but 200 assasinations that WIKI says is nothing to hundreds thousands in my country

thats why i said you didn't had what we had

of course you see assasination as evil - but i say about scale of repression

you were battoned by police on street - in my country they were keeping man in cold water during winter without food and with leg of chair put into his anus beating him,

makes difference ,

so i do not say about lack of repression - i say about incomparable scale of those repressions (including confiscation of private property which probably not touched former Y on scale it touched PL)

repressions were in all our countries, simply in one much bigger and in other much smaller - thats why Serbs do not see it as evil as we (plus as you said - they were opressors , like USSR which people also do not see evil in it, cause they were oppressors in our countries not even saying about other nation which were 40% of officers in Polish version of NKVD, you had Serbs, we had "our Serbs" which changed names from -stein, -mann, -itz -in -ych (Russian and Jewish names) to -ski (typical Polish name) after Stalin death by secret decree to change name into Polish to vanish orginal ethinic roots of officers of secret police and nowadays their kids have other names given in late 50s, a lot of them moved to Israel in 1968, some to Sweden or UK (where few communist criminals were hiding before justice after 1989 and were not deported back to PL to face courts cause they played "antisemitism" card and west was buying this fairytale knowing holocaust , so commie criminals were using holocaust card to say they are hiding before antisemitism, while in fact they were hiding because they were hunted for murder and reason they left PL for example in 1968 was not antisemitism, but commie party was clearing country from Stalin administration - it was internal fight between 2 groups of commies for power)

in former Y - Serbs were oppressors in my country USSR sent Soviet Jewish commies and Russian commies to rule aparatus of repression (there was not enough Polish commies to fulfill duties cause in PL there was not much pro-commie support , there was civil war till 1947 here from 1944 , not much wide known fact from history, that for PL WW2 not ended in 1945, we had civil war which was lasting ca. 2 years , people were trying to get rid of communist system by force (a lot of WW2 guerillas still were fighting with new enemy - commies who were confiscating private property, because in Stalin era they were trying to turn us to another USSR republic while people were traditionally connected to private property unlike in Russia where farmers had nothing during Tsar, we had many "small nobles" which had some hectares of land or "Kulaks" - rich farmers)

in this civil war after WW2 much much much more people died than 200 noted by Wikipedia about f. Y.

question to you - do you had private property confiscation in former Y ?

True

I didn´t have private property confiscated. My familiy however (my deceased granddad) had to endure a lot during and after WW2. His father was killed by the Italians, his mother by the communists. Since he was a young boy at that time those same communists took a lot of land from the family and, thanks to their positions, made sure that it was recorded as theirs. No criminal charges were ever opened since her body was never found. Since the fall of communism parts of my familiy (not my part though, not interested) are slowly getting the land back through court cases and really old files.

[aleksadragutin 9]

True

I didn´t have private property confiscated. My familiy however (my deceased granddad) had to endure a lot during and after WW2. His father was killed by the Italians, his mother by the communists. Since he was a young boy at that time those same communists took a lot of land from the family and, thanks to their positions, made sure that it was recorded as theirs. No criminal charges were ever opened since her body was never found. Since the fall of communism parts of my familiy (not my part though, not interested) are slowly getting the land back through court cases and really old files.

My family had a mill confiscated, worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. And what about Serbs sent to Goli Otok, and what about our dictator being a Croat? Serbs were treated equaly to all other nationalities.

[Tonci87 163]

My family had a mill confiscated, worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. And what about Serbs sent to Goli Otok, and what about our dictator being a Croat? Serbs were treated equaly to all other nationalities.

Ok, I´ll give you just a few examples on how that was not the case.

Most of the state administration/police/officers composed of Serbs

UDBA killing almost exclusivelly Croatians, Slovenes, Bosniaks and Albanians.

The Orthodox church was never as supressed as the catholic one. One Reason why it was difficult for Croatians to get into the party was because you wouldn´t be invited if you were going to church. The same did not apply to Serbs.

There are many more things wich I already talked about and there are more than enough internet sources, go and read them.

[Sub-Human 10]

Yeah, the sanctions cover also most food exports. Actually the same or similar products like in this RT report and what is Russia doing now.

Maybe there is somewhere a list around with more details which products are banned for exports.

@didnt see its an RT report from 2014 and did wonder already if there would be new reactions.

The Russian Duma did say this import ban is 'unconstitutional'. The Russian government is looking for excuses to lift the 'anti-sanctions', since it hurts their economy (the massive inflation of ruble began after the ban took place).

[heavygunner 179]

[beastcat 14]

This video brought up some interesting points. Instead of pumping tons of weapons from both sides it would probably make more sense to modernize the weapons, so it won't pay to throw tons of old, outmatched weapons against new ones. After all, Russia can't support what is basically a second army for ever.

[oxmox 73]

How do you solve a problem like Ukraine?

Analysis: Kiev should stop banning Russian films and TV programmes and start talking to Russophone Ukrainians

Not long ago, former Ukrainian president Viktor Yushchenko gave a wide ranging interview in which he offered the man who now sits in that seat some advice.

President Petro Poroshenko must understand, the ex-leader said, that half the country is against the imposition of the Ukrainian language, opposes the idea of a single national church, and does not want to join any military alliance.

The most recent example of this colonisation is the introduction of a law, about to come into effect, which bans the showing of “any Russian films, documentaries, serials, or cartoons†made since January 2014 or any productions portraying “the aggressor country†(Russia) in a favourable light made after August 1991 (the time of the Soviet coup).

The current war effort has certainly succeeded in rallying popular support behind the government in Kiev, and the censorship imposed on Russian media and cultural outlets no doubt also helps.

A poll conducted last December by the Ukrainian news website Zerkalo Nedeli highlights the fact that the government’s efforts, instead of healing Ukraine’s wounds, are creating new rifts.

A better solution than colonisation would therefore be to establish a cultural dialogue with Russophone Ukrainians.

A true dialogue of equal citizens might lead to the development of what Ukraine currently so obviously lacks – a unifying civic culture that encompasses both the Russian and Ukrainian speaking communities.

This is where Ukrainian elites have a fateful choice to make. They can try to resolve the problem of national unity by adopting nationalistic symbols, rallying people around an “eternal enemy†(Russia) and making the new national identity a litmus test of loyalty. Or, they can forge unity through the incorporation of Russian speakers into a new civic patriotism in which Ukrainian identity is defined by its civic virtues rather than by culture or ethnicity. Simply put, the choice is between nationalism and liberalism.

---> Moreover, given Russia’s overwhelming cultural presence in Ukraine, building a national identity at the expense of Russian identity would prove especially difficult, like trying to build Canadian identity around anti-Americanism and a refusal to speak English.

So far Poroshenko seems bent on repeating Yushchenko’s mistakes. But while his nationalistic rhetoric may help the war effort, what happens after the conflict ends? In the long-run integral nationalism runs counter to Ukrainian national unity, stable democracy, and even EU and Nato membership. Ultimately, there is no alternative to a national dialogue that sees Ukraine’s bicultural and bilingual identity as a strength, rather than as a weakness.

And if the west is truly interested in the success of Ukraine, then it should recognise that it too has a vital stake in expanding liberal discourse in Ukraine, and in overcoming the nationalistic rhetoric that can only further divide the nation.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/27/ukraine-russia-solve-nicolai-petro

Edited March 30, 2015 by oxmox

[Sub-Human 10]

(BBC, Russian) http://www.bbc.co.uk/russian/international/2015/03/150325_donetsk_rebel_interview#share-tools

Interview with DNR spetsnaz operative, who admits that Russian forces play a significant role in fighting in East Ukraine. He claims Russian tanks helped in Debaltsevo, specifically Buryats (which goes in line with the burned tank soldier who complained about not receiving payment).

[oxmox 73]

Already months ago a short documentary did report about the lack of investigations and the covering ups of the Maidan incidents...and about the fact that unknown snipers from the opposition HQ building were firing aswell at the back of protesters.

Council of Europe condemns Kiev Maidan investigations (Die Zeit, google transl.)

Too little, too slow, not independent: The Euro Europe accuses Ukrainian officials to delay the investigation

into the many deaths on the Maidan a year ago.

The Council of Europe has criticized the investigation of the Ukrainian justice to the violent clashes on the Maidan Square in Kiev sharply over a year ago.

During the three-month demonstrations "there was no real attempt" to clarify the incidents, according to a report, submitted by the three Euro Europe experts.

The investigation was not independent - in some cases, the investigators were under the same authority as those being investigated against.

The investigation would also hampered by a "non-cooperative attitude" of the Ukrainian Interior Ministry and security forces, it said in the report.

This applies particularly to the role of the special units of the now defunct Berkut riot police during the violent crackdown on demonstrations .

The Interior Ministry pursue "obstruction" which prevents the progress in this "key area of ​​investigation".

"Certain officers" were promoted on the Maidan Square after the events even on high posts in the Ministry of Interior.

Ukraine did not provide the documents

The group had already complained in an interim report on hindrance of their work in mid-September. Thus, the lawyers had a planned visit to Kiev move by several months because the Ukrainian authorities had not delivered on time all required documents.

Critics from NGOs

Several NGOs had accused the Ukrainian authorities, not to advance with the investigation about the death of the protesters and not to hold those responsible into account.

The pro-European protests did end in February last year with violence: Within three days - from 18th to 20th February - about hundred protesters were killed on the Maidan Square in Kiev. Many victims had gunshot wounds from snipers. In addition, several dozen people from the protest village disappeared. They have not been found to date.

Die Zeit

Edited March 31, 2015 by oxmox