Tonci87 163 Posted January 14, 2015 No I´m sure they bought them all in an Army surplus store :j: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maio 293 Posted January 14, 2015 Russia sent UP TO 160-170 T-72 (!!!) tanks to Ukraine's rebels.http://sled-vzayt.livejournal.com/1730.html Guys, When posting articles that are not written in English, please a provide a translation link or at least give us a summary in English. Translated article: http://www.microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx Thanks Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mistyronin 1181 Posted January 14, 2015 No I´m sure they bought them all in an Army surplus store :j: I think we'll all agree that the Russian Army surplus stores are the new black. It seems that more Russian tanks are "sold" nowadays in Eastern Europe than even iPhones World-wide... But the World doesn't end in the military themes: ( Al Jazeera ) In eastern Ukraine’s Miusynsk, pensioners struggle to survive winter Natalia Shevchenko, 57, doesn’t know if she and her husband are going to survive the winter. Her last pension check arrived in June, and since then, she and her husband have eaten through most of the pickled tomatoes and canned food on their shelves. “Now we understand that no one needs us,†she said.Shevchenko lives in Miusynsk, a village in eastern Ukraine of fewer than 2,000 people that hugs the border between Luhansk and Donetsk, the two regions controlled by pro-Russian rebels fighting Ukrainian forces. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
klamacz 448 Posted January 14, 2015 (edited) Today: Shelling kills at least 11 civilians in eastern Ukraine. Edited January 14, 2015 by Maio Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonci87 163 Posted January 14, 2015 (edited) The official russian propaganda story seems to be that the bus drove onto a ukrainian mine...FPDR Like seriously, why would they mine the road through their checkpoint? And why is the side of the bus full of holes and not the bottom? Edited January 14, 2015 by Maio Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sgt.Spoetnik 10 Posted January 14, 2015 Same BS like the rebels have arty that shoot 30+km to hit the bus,prob a ukrainian army round that didn go to the east but decided to drop short. and offcource no mine it would destroy the bus,its a shell hitting close by and killing and hurting the ppl inside, oh btw why arent we disscussing the countless civilians that been killed in ukrainian arty shelling but suddenly you all suprised when civilians are killed? i mean really? mayby it was a big bertha beeing fired from Russia,you would all believe that when you would read or hear this one,but nothing about the relenthless bombing off civilians in E-Ukraine! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonci87 163 Posted January 14, 2015 Same BS like the rebels have arty that shoot 30+km to hit the bus,prob a ukrainian army round that didn go to the east but decided to drop short. and offcource no mine it would destroy the bus,its a shell hitting close by and killing and hurting the ppl inside, oh btw why arent we disscussing the countless civilians that been killed in ukrainian arty shelling but suddenly you all suprised when civilians are killed? i mean really? mayby it was a big bertha beeing fired from Russia,you would all believe that when you would read or hear this one,but nothing about the relenthless bombing off civilians in E-Ukraine! Russian GRAD 9M521 21kg fragmentation warhead, range 40km and there are more Grad warheads that go 30km+ Add to that other arty pieces that the separatists have. But let´s turn your argument around, why would the Ukrainians fire arty on a position inside their own territory? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sgt.Spoetnik 10 Posted January 14, 2015 or why would they shoot one single GRAD out to nowhere in hopes off hitting a checkpoint 30 km's away? shouldn they shoot a volley when using a GRAD? love the russian part in your reply,you reallly believe it was russians dind you ;) btw Ukraine have grads 2 you know. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beastcat 14 Posted January 14, 2015 (edited) or why would they shoot one single GRAD out to nowhere in hopes off hitting a checkpoint 30 km's away? shouldn they shoot a volley when using a GRAD? love the russian part in your reply,you reallly believe it was russians dind you ;) btw Ukraine have grads 2 you know. Jup, this definitely looks like a single grad rocket. The bus that is described can be seen at the end after the camera is rotated. FFS, are you flamebaiting or are you really ready to believe every conspiracy theory, no matter how silly, just so you don't have to accept that what the russians are doing is wrong? (Edit: Oh nevermind, I think I confused you with Spooky, but still) Heres the Ukraine@War analysis: Bus with civilians hit at Ukrainian checkpost near Volnovakha The impacts: There are even some 50 impacts!It means more than one GRAD launcher must have been used. Since more than 50 impacts can be counted more than one MLRS launcher has been used. And since not all area has been filmed we will find that a lot more impacts have occurred. We have seen dozens of movies with up to five GRAD-launchers, which means 5x40=200 rockets may have been fired... Since the distance/diameter of the area covered is 630 meters, it would mean with the given formula the rockets were fired from some 80 kms distance. Impossible! Thus the simple conclusion is: this has been caused by more than one MLRS launcher. We already knew this because we had some 50 impacts. So this is a confirmation that multiple launcher were involved. Edited January 14, 2015 by beastcat Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonci87 163 Posted January 14, 2015 or why would they shoot one single GRAD out to nowhere in hopes off hitting a checkpoint 30 km's away? shouldn they shoot a volley when using a GRAD? love the russian part in your reply,you reallly believe it was russians dind you ;) btw Ukraine have grads 2 you know. I didn´t say Russians did it, I´m just saying that Russian build GRAD Rockets (all Rockets used in that war are Russian or Soviet build) have a range of over 30km. Does the Video Beastcat linked look to you like a "Ukrainian Army round that went short"? And of course you didn´t bother to answer my question.... I didn´t expect anything else. There are more news, The Rebels have again assaulted Donetsk airport, after heavy artillery and tank shelling the iconic control tower finally collapsed https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7Opf20CMAA4PqV.png (258 kB) Ukrainian forces claim that the separatists used a heavy Buratino assault MLRS to shell the airport area (only Russia has those). This report can´t be verified. Ukraine has send additional forces to defend the airport. It seems as if again the separatists used the ceasefire to build up their strenght and then broke it as soon as they were ready. Also interesting Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beastcat 14 Posted January 14, 2015 (edited) Footage from the "cyborgs" defending from the new russian offensive on the Donetsk airport. http://youtu.be/5kOUNjAd-oc The enemy is just a few hundred meters away in the treeline. And heres the collapsed tower: Oh and I would ignore the Buratino claim for now until we get some actual evidence. Looks like our favorite experts from the OSCE confirmed that the bus was indeed destroyed by the rocket that destroyed it on the video. I hope next time they step up their investigation and confirm wether the bus is indeed a bus. Edited January 14, 2015 by beastcat Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dwarden 1125 Posted January 14, 2015 Grads are common and cheap so most of the rocket arty will be just that yet I would not rule heavier launchers could be Uragan, Smerch used as additional 'punch' tactic ... fired as similar time at same targets .... note: TOS-1 Buratino has sub 10km thus too risky to use in such conflict ... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonci87 163 Posted January 14, 2015 Yeah I too doubt that they used a Buratino, one of those things would have blasted the whole area to kingdom come. It is sad to see that after almost two decades of peace europe again has a place where people have to fight trench warfare.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beastcat 14 Posted January 15, 2015 Shelling from village http://youtu.be/XcsfCZe9juY The operator says "And this happens every day". The guy at the end just asks "Did you record?". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
exe_74rus 1 Posted January 15, 2015 Russia sent UP TO 160-170 T-72 (!!!) tanks to Ukraine's rebels.http://sled-vzayt.livejournal.com/1730.html Why are so few! You inaccurate! You lie! I live in Chelyabinsk, and only in our city from warehouses took about 500 tanks! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oxmox 73 Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) Ukraine mobilized tens of thousands of soldiers In the fight against pro-Russian separatists, the government in Kiev calls up reservist. The mobilization runs contrary to the peace efforts of the Eastern Ukraine. Around 50,000 young people or those who already received a special military training should engage and be armed on Tuesday next week. In two further stages from April and June, again more than 50.000 reservists will be drafted for military in the battle against pro-Russian separatists. The President of the self-proclaimed People's Republic of Donetsk, Alexander Sachartschenko, said in response to the mobilization of troops: "Ukraine is preparing for war. We are ready to respond appropriately. We are not weak..." Zeit.de press report Ukrainian military prepares for war with a big mobilization mmmh ...................are they getting crazy or what is going on. Many nations are looking for a peace option, who is financing this after they got credit already but ask for money from the EU again wheras the Ukraine itself is more or less bankrupt. I wonder to what will lead this all. Edited January 15, 2015 by oxmox Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonci87 163 Posted January 15, 2015 I think Ukraine is running out of patience. So far they haven´t fully commited to a full war against the separatists, that might change now since all peace plans and diplomatic advances are failing again and again (mainy due to the separatists who just seem to use the ceasefires to prepare new attacks). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mistyronin 1181 Posted January 15, 2015 I think Ukraine is running out of patience. So far they haven´t fully commited to a full war against the separatists, that might change now since all peace plans and diplomatic advances are failing again and again (mainy due to the separatists who just seem to use the ceasefires to prepare new attacks). I think Ukraine's Gov is saving its main forces just in case Russia decides to "officially" step in. If Ukraine lose their patience, Russia will have a good excuse to intervene, like in Georgia. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oxmox 73 Posted January 15, 2015 Hopefully this does not escalate too much.....sounds more like war than anything. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vran. 13 Posted January 15, 2015 Hopefully this does not escalate too much.....sounds more like war than anything. If it would it could be much like the Yugoslav wars were. But you must understand that in those wars there was deeply rooted hatred behind (Serbian Chetnik revival, Croatian Ustaša restoration, Bosnian Muslim Jihadi currents, historical hatred between Kosovo Albanians and ethnic Serbs, hatred of former Communist state) which manifested in all those wars and atrocities. I think there is no such historical hate between Ukrainians and Russians except for the Ukrainian hatred of Stalin and Communism and the Russian hate of Ukrainian collaboration with Hitler and Nazism. The bad thing is that both sides seem to provoke each other with such symbolism, opening old wounds and fears. I don't think any side would really benefit from a full-scale conflict. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mistyronin 1181 Posted January 15, 2015 Hopefully this does not escalate too much.....sounds more like war than anything. *stupid joking self-advertisement mode on* If that happens at least you know what mod to play *stupid joking self-advertisement mode off* :bounce3: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oxmox 73 Posted January 15, 2015 *stupid joking self-advertisement mode on* If that happens at least you know what mod to play *stupid joking self-advertisement mode off* :bounce3: haha :bounce3: I would rather see that it stays fiction. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mistyronin 1181 Posted January 15, 2015 I would rather see that it stays fiction. Me too. For the everyone's sake. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aleksadragutin 9 Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) Ukraine mobilized tens of thousands of soldiersIn the fight against pro-Russian separatists, the government in Kiev calls up reservist. The mobilization runs contrary to the peace efforts of the Eastern Ukraine. Around 50,000 young people or those who already received a special military training should engage and be armed on Tuesday next week. In two further stages from April and June, again more than 50.000 reservists will be drafted for military in the battle against pro-Russian separatists. The President of the self-proclaimed People's Republic of Donetsk, Alexander Sachartschenko, said in response to the mobilization of troops: "Ukraine is preparing for war. We are ready to respond appropriately. We are not weak..." Zeit.de press report Ukrainian military prepares for war with a big mobilization mmmh ...................are they getting crazy or what is going on. Many nations are looking for a peace option, who is financing this after they got credit already but ask for money from the EU again wheras the Ukraine itself is more or less bankrupt. I wonder to what will lead this all. It will be a classic dept slavery, and will probably be followed by total system corruption, much like it was in my country after the pro EU revolution. The formula is take credit, leave the dept to your kids, and sell of anything that would be an asset to the country like state owned firms. ---------- Post added at 11:12 ---------- Previous post was at 10:59 ---------- If it would it could be much like the Yugoslav wars were. But you must understand that in those wars there was deeply rooted hatred behind (Serbian Chetnik revival, Croatian Ustaša restoration, Bosnian Muslim Jihadi currents, historical hatred between Kosovo Albanians and ethnic Serbs, hatred of former Communist state) which manifested in all those wars and atrocities. I think there is no such historical hate between Ukrainians and Russians except for the Ukrainian hatred of Stalin and Communism and the Russian hate of Ukrainian collaboration with Hitler and Nazism. The bad thing is that both sides seem to provoke each other with such symbolism, opening old wounds and fears. I don't think any side would really benefit from a full-scale conflict. The hatred between Serbs and Croats/Albanians is a relatively recent thing. You don't have historical hatred between Serbs and Croats up until WW2 (it started in the '30s), were fascist Croatia was very aggressive towards Serbs, and even then the hatred got overcome after the war. The real today hatred was born after the most recent wars in what many Serbs viewed as a betrayal. It's the same with Ukraine and Russia. You have new nationalist movements on both sides. Ukrainians view them selves as being bullied by Russia, and Russians feel betrayed by Ukrainians (just like here, although Ukrainians were on a lower level then Russians in the Stalins Soviet Union, where as Croats here didn't objectively have it worse than Serbs), so I wouldn't be surprised if the violence got worse than in Yugoslavia. Edited January 16, 2015 by aleksadragutin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonci87 163 Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) It will be a classic dept slavery, and will probably be followed by total system corruption, much like it was in my country after the pro EU revolution. The formula is take credit, leave the dept to your kids, and sell of anything that would be an asset to the country like state owned firms.---------- Post added at 11:12 ---------- Previous post was at 10:59 ---------- The hatred between Serbs and Croats/Albanians is a relatively recent thing. You don't have historical hatred between Serbs and Croats up until WW2 (it started in the '30s), were fascist Croatia was very aggressive towards Serbs, and even then the hatred got overcome after the war. The real today hatred was born after the most recent wars in what many Serbs viewed as a betrayal. It's the same with Ukraine and Russia. You have new nationalist movements on both sides. Ukrainians view them selves as being bullied by Russia, and Russians feel betrayed by Ukrainians (just like here, although Ukrainians were on a lower level then Russians in the Stalins Soviet Union, where as Croats here didn't objectively have it worse than Serbs), so I wouldn't be surprised if the violence got worse than in Yugoslavia. Incorrect, the hatred between croats and serbs goes back to the middle ages when Serbs (they were forced to) had to fight for the Ottomans against the Croatians. The hate was renewed after WW1 when Croatia was part of the Serbian Kingdom of Yugoslavia and Croatians had to suffer under the Serbian rule. Then in WW2 many croatians took advantage of the new nazi regime to take their revenge on the Serbians for all those years of surpression. After WW2 Yugoslavia was back, and again Croatians were not happy with it because they prefered to have their own state. Then Yugoslavia collapsed in a brutal civil war (started by Milosevic). Today the relations are still a little bit tense, but overall ok. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f5/Serbian_Army_enters_Zagreb.jpg/800px-Serbian_Army_enters_Zagreb.jpg (129 kB) Serbian Army units enter Zagreb in 1918 Edited January 16, 2015 by Tonci87 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
