Ukraine General

[aleksadragutin 9]

Really, Pavel a Russian from Rostov-on-Don says he is fighting a holy war. What is so incredibly misleading about the headline?

It's misleading because it makes you think that there is actual proof of actual Russian soldiers there (the bold letters below the image are even worse). Never liked that kind of subjective reporting that BBC has.

Edited December 18, 2014 by aleksadragutin

[mistyronin 1181]

Its misleading because it makes you think that there is actual proof of actual Russian soldiers there.

WTF. There are Russian soldiers in Ukraine, the Russian Defense Ministry ( source from the Kremlin funded ITAR TASS ) recognized it, also the Pro-Russian leaders recognize it.

Also Putin recognized that there are a lot of Russian citizens fighting in the Pro-Russian side ( heck all the original leaders of the Pro-Russian movement were citizens from the Moscow area ).

Besides the obvious Russian soldiers that are illegally invading Crimea.

Russian military led by Deputy Commander-in-Chief of the Ground Forces Alexander Lentsov are providing assistance to the Ukrainian south-east conflict sides in reaching compromise for deescalation of tension and troops’ pullout, Chief of the Russian General Staff General Valery Gerasimov said on Wednesday.

“Representatives of the Russian Armed Forces led by Lieutenant General Alexander Lentsov have been sent to the Debaltsevo settlement of the Donetsk region at the request of Chief of the Ukrainian General Staff Lieutenant Colonel Viktor Muzhenko,†Gerasimov said.

Or the Chief of the Russian General Staff General Valery Gerasimov is also paid by the CIA?

BTW both the Ukrainian Army and the OSCE confirmed that they didn't request the "Russian Army assistance".

Edited December 18, 2014 by MistyRonin

[aleksadragutin 9]

“Representatives of the Russian Armed Forces led by Lieutenant General Alexander Lentsov have been sent to the Debaltsevo settlement of the Donetsk region at the request of Chief of the Ukrainian General Staff Lieutenant Colonel Viktor Muzhenko,†Gerasimov said.

Doesn't say much about Russian soldiers fighting along side the rebels. And also I'm talking about the Rostov region, not Crimea (it's arguable that it's even Ukraine now).

Edited December 18, 2014 by aleksadragutin

[mistyronin 1181]

Doesn't say much about Russian soldiers fighting along side the rebels.

Ok, so you have officially Russian soldiers in a fighting zone in Eastern Ukraine. And they haven't been requested by the Ukrainian Army ( again another Kremlin lie )... What are they doing there... taking flowers in the forest? While magically in Russia, families are burying Russian soldiers killed in action in the void.

BTW the Russian Dear Leader has forced again the bottle of Vodka:

( RT ) Ukraine wouldn’t have civil war if not for West - Putin

Doesn't say much about Russian soldiers fighting along side the rebels. And also I'm talking about the Rostov region, not Crimea (it's arguable that it's even Ukraine now).

Arguable nope, practically all the countries in the World but 11 voted in the UN council that the Russia occupation and the fake referendum were a farce, and that Crimea is legally Ukraine:

( United Nations ) Resolution adopted by the General Assembly on 27 March 2014

Edited December 18, 2014 by MistyRonin

[Sub-Human 10]

It's misleading because it makes you think that there is actual proof of actual Russian soldiers there (the bold letters below the image are even worse).

What do you call proof? How about this:

http://sled-vzayt.livejournal.com/926.html

This is the continuation of the previous article I posted a couple pages back.

[aleksadragutin 9]

What do you call proof? How about this:

http://sled-vzayt.livejournal.com/926.html

This is the continuation of the previous article I posted a couple pages back.

Saw that a long time ago, but it doesn't really prove that there are Russian army soldiers fighting the Ukrainians. The title says "РоÑÑийÑÐºÐ°Ñ Ð±Ñ€Ð¾Ð½ÐµÑ‚ÐµÑ…Ð½Ð¸ÐºÐ° в войне на ДонбаÑÑе", which means Russian military equipment in Donbass, not actual Rusian regulars fighting there.

[krycek 349]

Saw that a long time ago, but it doesn't really prove that there are Russian army soldiers fighting the Ukrainians. The title says "РоÑÑийÑÐºÐ°Ñ Ð±Ñ€Ð¾Ð½ÐµÑ‚ÐµÑ…Ð½Ð¸ÐºÐ° в войне на ДонбаÑÑе", which means Russian military equipment in Donbass, not actual Rusian regulars fighting there.

At this point you'll probably say "this doesn't prove anything" even if his lordship Putin The Great would acknowledge that there are indeed russian troops in Ukraine.

[Sub-Human 10]

Saw that a long time ago, but it doesn't really prove that there are Russian army soldiers fighting the Ukrainians. The title says "РоÑÑийÑÐºÐ°Ñ Ð±Ñ€Ð¾Ð½ÐµÑ‚ÐµÑ…Ð½Ð¸ÐºÐ° в войне на ДонбаÑÑе", which means Russian military equipment in Donbass, not actual Rusian regulars fighting there.

4 days is long time ago? :confused:

I encourage you to read both parts, as it shows Russian military on these tanks and admitting that they're in Ukraine (especially in the first part).

[surpher 1]

What do you call proof? How about this:

http://sled-vzayt.livejournal.com/926.html

This is the continuation of the previous article I posted a couple pages back.

Near Sambek, Rostovskaya oblast' Russia

Source - Location

Near Roven'ky, Luhans'ka oblast

Source - Location

(BBC Radio 4) Crossing Continents - The Knights of New Russia

Russian support for the separatists in eastern Ukraine doesn't all come directly from the Kremlin. The rebellion there may be stoked, and armed, by Vladimir Putin - but it's also become a personal cause for young Russian volunteers recruited by a variety of nationalist and far-right groups. Many say they're motivated by their Orthodox faith - and their dream to restore Novorossiya, or New Russia, the territory which encompassed eastern Ukraine under the Tsarist Empire. Passionate members of re-enactment societies, they've spent their weekends reliving Russia's historic battles. But now they're fighting - and sometimes dying - for real, in what they see as a test of their own, and Russia's, "manhood". Tim Whewell has gained rare access to the weird, shadowy world of Russia's radical nationalists. He travels with volunteers from the grand old imperial capital, St Petersburg, to the chaotic, muddy battlefields of eastern Ukraine - and reveals a movement whose leaders have become increasingly influential in Putin's Russia - but is now in danger of becoming an embarrassment to the Kremlin.

Edited December 19, 2014 by surpher

[aleksadragutin 9]

4 days is long time ago? :confused:

I encourage you to read both parts, as it shows Russian military on these tanks and admitting that they're in Ukraine (especially in the first part).

Few months ago is the first time I saw those photos. Someone posted it here in the thread. You probably noticed that the pictures have been made in summer.

---------- Post added at 18:17 ---------- Previous post was at 18:16 ----------

At this point you'll probably say "this doesn't prove anything" even if his lordship Putin The Great would acknowledge that there are indeed russian troops in Ukraine.

Wait, does this have anything to do with Russian army being in Ukraine? I mean, I must be missing something, please enlighten me.

For the record, I didn't say that the rebels are not armed by Russia (I really don't know that much), but posting a text and then pulling conclusions that are simply not found there is what I'm against.

Edited December 19, 2014 by aleksadragutin

[surpher 1]

(InformNapalm) Embarrassment for Russia with their soldiers being captured in Ukraine. - Original

For a long time, Russia had pretended that the fighters in Donbas were volunteers and not its regular army. However, towards the end of the summer the first captured Russian professional soldiers started to appear, and lying had become more difficult.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Yeah, Putin said yesterday that "he isn't responsible for the soldiers that go, on their free time, doing their duty in Ukraine". What's funny is that it's eventually a confession.

Edited December 19, 2014 by ProfTournesol

[oxmox 73]

Questionable if the Ukraine gets further financial aid from the EU when reforms are getting blocked, especially when it comes to the severe corruption in this country...

Powerful people prevent anti-corruption agency (Ukraine)

The structure of an anti-corruption authority in Ukraine is obviously prevented by President Petro Poroshenko and other influential forces, although the west makes grants dependant on it.

For months, parliament, president and government deal in Kiev with the establishment of an anti-corruption authority for the Ukraine. EU and US have repeatedly stressed the importance of the establishment of such an office, and they make the disbursement of grants dependant on it.

NGO representatives suspect, however, that powerful forces trying to block this authority.

"I'll go so far as to say that the emergence of the Office is sabotaged," said Yegor Sobolev. Along with about 45 other, mostly new parliamentarians he tries to save the project Anti-Corruption Office.

And yet the European integration of Ukraine and the fight against corruption, the two key demands of the Maidan protests of last winter.

Sobolev was one of the main organizers of the Maidan. Now, he said: "People feel betrayed, the new government has promised the Ukrainians reforms and European standards."

The introduction of an anti-corruption agency systematically delayed

Actually, the new authority was planned to start on 24 January 2015. But it is not for the time being.

Not only the government blocks, and the office of President Petro Poroshenko always finding new excuses why the Authority's work can not start.

Currently a silent end threatens the intention of the anti-corruption agency project.

With lots of premature praise the newly elected finance minister, the US citizen Natalia Jaresko, has not provided any kopeck for the new authority in the draft budget for 2015.

http://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/ukraine-maechtige-verhindern-anti-korruptionsbehoerde/11140206.html

Edited December 19, 2014 by oxmox

[Sub-Human 10]

Yeah, Putin said yesterday that "he isn't responsible for the soldiers that go, on their free time, doing their duty in Ukraine". What's funny is that it's eventually a confession.

It's still illegal by Russian law. Putin needs to read the Constitution from time to time. :)

[mistyronin 1181]

It's still illegal by Russian law. Putin needs to read the Constitution from time to time. :)

Why? He is the Russian law.

[maturin 12]

This guy knocks it out of the park:

http://nobsrussia.com/2014/12/18/one-sided-war/

[surpher 1]

(BBC) Hackers take sides in virtual war

Throughout the bitter violence of the Ukrainian conflict, another hidden war has been waged, involving several groups of computer hackers.

Little is beyond their reach. Official documents and private communications are made public, and websites blocked. They hijack CCTV cameras, electronic billboards and network printers.

The best known of the virtual warriors are the Ukrainian Cyber Troops, the Cyber Berkut and Anonymous International.

All three present themselves as independent activists, separate from other, government-sponsored groups.

[Tonci87 163]

This guy knocks it out of the park:

http://nobsrussia.com/2014/12/18/one-sided-war/

That was quite the read.

[il_padrino 1530]

Stratfor: Ukraine Coup Plotted by US Over Russian Stance on Syria

[mistyronin 1181]

Stratfor: Ukraine Coup Plotted by US Over Russian Stance on Syria

Definitely Sputnik ( former RIA ) is becoming the new RT. Such a pity. RIA as a media was quite good and somehow neutral ( comparing to other Kremlin's funded media ).

[il_padrino 1530]

Ehm, I'm not sure what does that have to do with Friedman giving that interview with the Kommersant (like Sputnik mentioned "Russia has repeatedly said that the coup in Kiev was organized by the US, Friedman told Kommersant newspaper. Indeed, it was the most overt coup in history, the political analyst stressed.")

Or maybe you think this whole interview is false ?

http://www.kommersant.ru/doc/2636177

I don't know about you, but I basically agree with almost everything he said there, and he was just talking about facts. :)

[oxmox 73]

They were involved already with the Orange Revolution in 2004. There is great book from the famous expert Peter Scholl Latour called "Russland im Zangengriff" (for those who understand german) where it is mentioned aswell.

But one of most important points for the future of the Ukraine right now are reforms to get rid of cliques and their "cleptocracy" if they want to get more close cooperation with the EU.

US campaign behind the turmoil in Kiev (november 26th, 2004 - The Guardian)

Funded and organised by the US government, deploying US consultancies, pollsters, diplomats, the two big American parties and US non-government organisations, the campaign was first used in Europe in Belgrade in 2000 to beat Slobodan Milosevic at the ballot box.

Richard Miles, the US ambassador in Belgrade, played a key role. And by last year, as US ambassador in Tbilisi, he repeated the trick in Georgia, coaching Mikhail Saakashvili in how to bring down Eduard Shevardnadze.

Ten months after the success in Belgrade, the US ambassador in Minsk, Michael Kozak, a veteran of similar operations in central America, notably in Nicaragua, organised a near identical campaign to try to defeat the Belarus hardman, Alexander Lukashenko.

But experience gained in Serbia, Georgia and Belarus has been invaluable in plotting to beat the regime of Leonid Kuchma in Kiev.

The operation - engineering democracy through the ballot box and civil disobedience - is now so slick that the methods have matured into a template for winning other people's elections.

In Belarus, the US embassy organised the dispatch of young opposition leaders to the Baltic, where they met up with Serbs travelling from Belgrade. In Serbia's case, given the hostile environment in Belgrade, the Americans organised the overthrow from neighbouring Hungary - Budapest and Szeged.

The Democratic party's National Democratic Institute, the Republican party's International Republican Institute, the US state department and USAid are the main agencies involved in these grassroots campaigns as well as the Freedom House NGO and billionaire George Soros's open society institute.

Freedom House and the Democratic party's NDI helped fund and organise the "largest civil regional election monitoring effort" in Ukraine, involving more than 1,000 trained observers. They also organised exit polls.

US pollsters and professional consultants are hired to organise focus groups and use psephological data to plot strategy.

If the events in Kiev vindicate the US in its strategies for helping other people win elections and take power from anti-democratic regimes, it is certain to try to repeat the exercise elsewhere in the post-Soviet world.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/nov/26/ukraine.usa

Edited December 20, 2014 by oxmox

[mistyronin 1181]

Or maybe you think this whole interview is false ? [...]

I don't know about you, but I basically agree with almost everything he said there, and he was just talking about facts. :)

I don't think it's false.

But before RIA Novosti used to publish neutral information or with a little bias ( as most gov. funded media world wide ). And since they became Sputnik they are overtly biased, to me George Friedman has always been a character that seeks notoriety over anything else and as credible as any average Illuminati conspiracy author.

Besides in Ukraine there was no coup, as the removal of Yanukovich was done according to laws that were promulgated 10 years before and by a parliament elected two years ago. It's the same as when the US parliament wanted to impeach Clinton. Or in many other cases in other democratic countries.

Ukraine may not be the best example of democracy, but in that specific case it was done right.

And what an authoritarian government like the Kremlin may say, I don't think it's much relevant. Putin already proved how most of what he says are lies.

( Sputnik News ) Putin Denies Sending Russian Troops to Crimea

Russian President Vladimir Putin said Tuesday that his country has not deployed any troops in Crimea recently and has no plans to annex the peninsula. [...]

When asked about the identity of the troops, Putin told a press conference that they are “local militias.â€

They are wearing Russian-style fatigues because such attire is available in army shops across the former Soviet Union, Putin said.

( RT ) Putin acknowledges Russian military serviceman were in Crimea

Russian President Vladimir Putin has acknowledged that Russian troops were present in Crimea before the referendum and argued that was necessary to let Crimeans make the choice on the future of the region.

[sgtsev3n 12]

Putin on Ukraine: Kiev is running punitive military operation, not Russia

[aleksadragutin 9]

I don't think it's false.

But before RIA Novosti used to publish neutral information or with a little bias ( as most gov. funded media world wide ). And since they became Sputnik they are overtly biased, to me George Friedman has always been a character that seeks notoriety over anything else and as credible as any average Illuminati conspiracy author.

Besides in Ukraine there was no coup, as the removal of Yanukovich was done according to laws that were promulgated 10 years before and by a parliament elected two years ago. It's the same as when the US parliament wanted to impeach Clinton. Or in many other cases in other democratic countries.

Ukraine may not be the best example of democracy, but in that specific case it was done right.

And what an authoritarian government like the Kremlin may say, I don't think it's much relevant. Putin already proved how most of what he says are lies.

( Sputnik News ) Putin Denies Sending Russian Troops to Crimea

( RT ) Putin acknowledges Russian military serviceman were in Crimea

It woudn't be the first that the US staged a coup, so why do you find it so hard to believe? Or do you think that the US has no interest in Ukraine?