Ukraine General

[beastcat 14]

Lol that BS is prob the worst piece of propaganda crap ive seen so far, beast you really need to get better stuff! try harder or try the truth mayby.

What? It's just a dude summarizing the posts by StopFake and they are doing a pretty good job at pointing out fakes. They are exposing propaganda, not the other way around.

[Tonci87 163]

Maybe Spoetnik will care to tell us where that dude is wrong?

[Heeeere's johnny! 51]

Europe does not need Russian gas. In the next 10-15 years Gazprom will likely be completely out of business in Europe and better find a new market. The Black Sea has a very large natural gas reserve that Romania and Bulgaria can use (up to 600 billion cubic metres). Romania also has one of the largest shale gas reserves in Europe. In addition there are plans to import Western European gas, a project that will cost 750 million euro and deliver upwards of 25 billion cubic meters (compare this to $1 bln. USD that Bulgaria was supposed to donate to South Stream project). And Turkey is planning a new pipeline from Azerbaijan that will deliver about 20 billion cubic meters.

So in summary, the plans are to spend billions of dollars for workaround projects which could make Europe independent from russian gas in the mid future, rather than improving relationships with Russia and using these relationships to urge internal and external changes and reforms.

[mistyronin 1181]

So in summary' date=' the plans are to spend billions of dollars for workaround projects which [i']could[/i] make Europe independent from russian gas in the mid future, rather than improving relationships with Russia and using these relationships to urge internal and external changes and reforms.

If one of your providers is a bully that has no self-control, the logic decision is to switch to another one, not to reinforce his bully behavior.

[aleksadragutin 9]

If one of your providers is a bully that has no self-control, the logic decision is to switch to another one, not to reinforce his bully behavior.

Don't really see how Russia is a bigger bully than Germany or US for example. And you can't deny that EU and NATO are partially to blame for the recent events.

That would be oversimplifying it.

Edited December 10, 2014 by aleksadragutin

[mistyronin 1181]

Don't really see how Russia is a bigger bully than Germany or US for example. And you can't deny that EU and NATO are partially to blame for the recent events.

Remember me which countries have Germany or the US annexed lately?

And to blame the EU and NATO for the recent events would be like blame a girl for being raped.

Russia acts with Ukraine like a divorced couple. Russia and Ukraine got divorced in 1991.

But Russia is like the primitive man that still thinks that Ukraine is its property.

Ukraine wants to date the EU and NATO, Russia hates that, and steals part of Ukraine's property and keeps disturbing and destroying Ukraine's stuff to gets her attention.

[aleksadragutin 9]

Remember me which countries have Germany or the US annexed lately?

And to blame the EU and NATO for the recent events would be like blame a girl for being raped.

Russia acts with Ukraine like a divorced couple. Russia and Ukraine got divorced in 1991.

But Russia is like the primitive man that still thinks that Ukraine is its property.

Ukraine wants to date the EU and NATO, Russia hates that, and steals part of Ukraine's property and keeps disturbing and destroying Ukraine's stuff to gets her attention.

You know annexation is not the only mean of bullying, right? If the girl provoked the rapist, then she is partially to blame to.

[mistyronin 1181]

You know annexation is not the only mean of bullying, right? If the girl provoked the rapist, then she is partially to blame to.

In fact, no. She is not.

[Tonci87 163]

You know annexation is not the only mean of bullying, right? If the girl provoked the rapist, then she is partially to blame to.

That logic is fucked up! Not a single judge in the western world (including Serbia) would agree with that.

Oh and let´s not forgett that it was Russia who happily destroyed the good relations with the west, not the other way around.

May I also remind everyone that it was Russia who gave a shit on ancient traditions and started a war during the olympic games? No one else dared to do that before....

[spooky lynx 73]

Sure thing, supporting separatism and terrorism (yep those article about Chechen 'dissidents' that took a hostages in Moscow in 2001), installing a number of military bases around our borders, performing revolutions in nearby countries and even direct agressions against countries friendly to Russia, arming Georgian regime and pushing it to agression against us - it's Russia who destroyed good relations with the west:D:D:D BTW if such things like I've described are named "good relations" - screw it. "You don't need the enemies with such friends"©

Oh and if you refer to 08.08.08 - if I'm not mistaken still there's no any official conclusion that Russia started that war. On the countrary, a lot more point at Mishiko.

[Tonci87 163]

Well fact is that the Russian Army invaded another country during the olympic games, not the other way around.

[spooky lynx 73]

Well fact is that the Russian Army invaded another country during the olympic games, not the other way around.

I'll correct you: moved some more troops to support and reinforce peacekeepers who had been attacked. Officially Russian army had already been there since 1991. Note, it had been there legally according to internationally recognized agreenment also signed by Georgia.

[Tonci87 163]

I'll correct you: moved some more troops to support and reinforce peacekeepers who had been attacked. Officially Russian army had already been there since 1991. Note, it had been there legally according to internationally recognized agreenment also signed by Georgia.

Wow, I didn´t know that those reinforced Peacekeepers were stationed in Gori and Poti.

It was an invasion, plain and simple. A operation conducted by joint forces of the Russian 58th army, airborne troops, the airforce and the black sea fleet who were coincidentally all in the area and very ready to attack Georgia.

(I´m not saying that Georgia didn´t piss off Russia, but not in an extent to justify a full invasion. Putin was all too happy to showcase Russias new military power.)

Edited December 10, 2014 by Tonci87

[Dwarden 1125]

I'll correct you: moved some more troops to support and reinforce peacekeepers who had been attacked. Officially Russian army had already been there since 1991. Note, it had been there legally according to internationally recognized agreenment also signed by Georgia.

i'll correct you those peacekeeping forces had 3 parties (Russia, Georgia and rebels) ...

very often when rebels shelled (arty, mortars, grads) the villages on Georgian sides the vote was 2:1 as "nothing happened" ...

if Georgia forces did counter fire mission the vote was 2:1 as "violation of peace"

at some point the patience ran out for Georgian gov ...

btw. in cases of both Abkhazia and South Ossetia the Georgian's army technically won the local conflict( on theirs sovereign soil they crushed rebellion) until Russian forces interfere event ...

both regions were internationally (including Russia) recognize as part of Georgia for over decade

so there is quite similarity to events now on east-Ukraine where the rebels were technically on edge of being overrun until 'mighty friend came to help'

irony is that if the mighty friend really wanted, no military actions of either side would happen

[Kerc Kasha 102]

You know annexation is not the only mean of bullying, right? If the girl provoked the rapist, then she is partially to blame to.

Hahaha you just completely invalidated your opinion by saying that, that's one of the worst justifications I've ever heard and is a clear picture of how warped the mind has to be to buy into Russian BS

[spooky lynx 73]

Wow, I didn´t know that those reinforced Peacekeepers were stationed in Gori and Poti.

It was an invasion, plain and simple. A operation conducted by joint forces of the Russian 58th army, airborne troops, the airforce and the black sea fleet who were coincidentally all in the area and very ready to attack Georgia.

(I´m not saying that Georgia didn´t piss off Russia, but not in an extent to justify a full invasion. Putin was all too happy to showcase Russias new military power.)

To be honest we should go further to Tbilisi. To prevent any other attempt of showing who is greater nation, performed by Georgians at least three times since 1991.

i'll correct you those peacekeeping forces had 3 parties (Russia, Georgia and rebels) ...

very often when rebels shelled (arty, mortars, grads) the villages on Georgian sides the vote was 2:1 as "nothing happened" ...

if Georgia forces did counter fire mission the vote was 2:1 as "violation of peace"

at some point the patience ran out for Georgian gov ...

Nope. Russia, Georgia and special detachment formed by North Osetians. It's the first.

Second, fire at the villages inhabited mostly by Georgians was always provoked by Georgian army or MVD troops who opened fire on Osetian side. Osetians want only one thing - to leave Georgia, but not shell some average batono from nearby village.

btw. in cases of both Abkhazia and South Ossetia the Georgian's army technically won the local conflict( on theirs sovereign soil they crushed rebellion) until Russian forces interfere event ...

both regions were internationally (including Russia) recognize as part of Georgia for over decade

so there is quite similarity to events now on east-Ukraine where the rebels were technically on edge of being overrun until 'mighty friend came to help'

irony is that if the mighty friend really wanted, no military actions of either side would happen

Did they win? Really? But who were those men running out of Abhasia in september of 1993, dropping their arms and vehicles? And if they crushed the rebellion then why there were two unrecognized states established? Why hadn't I seen Georgian administration in Sukhum after the war?

[ProfTournesol 956]

It's amazing how many troubles Russia's got with its neighbours. That's bad luck probably :dead:

Edited December 10, 2014 by ProfTournesol
grammar

[beastcat 14]

It's amazing how many troubles Russia's got with their neighbours. That's bad luck probably :dead:

Nah, its not bad luck, its just that the USA and the jews worked together to destroy orthodox and slavic values of the neighboring countries. After the evil bourgeoisie injected their evil capitalism and freedom into every single neighbor they conspired together against the last heterosexual stronghold that is defending moral values, Russia. And now Russia has to defend its people from evil jewish nazi fashist antisemits. The russian army is crushing the polish blackwater mercenaries in Ukraine. But also keep in mind that the russian army is not in Ukraine.

We call this "doublethink".

[Dwarden 1125]

Did they win? Really? But who were those men running out of Abhasia in september of 1993, dropping their arms and vehicles? And if they crushed the rebellion then why there were two unrecognized states established? Why hadn't I seen Georgian administration in Sukhum after the war?

you can say the goals of operations were met, considering they controlled all the cities and key territory until 'outside forces' interference ...

I guess you somehow forgot the rebel all of sudden obtained new heavy equipment after the actual one being overran ...

anyway it's sort of pointless to argue about it , it's just matter of time it will happen again , the largest country in world want to be even larger (yes obviously 11% of Earth isn't enough)

[Tonci87 163]

Nah, its not bad luck, its just that the USA and the jews worked together to destroy orthodox and slavic values of the neighboring countries. After the evil bourgeoisie injected their evil capitalism and freedom into every single neighbor they conspired together against the last heterosexual stronghold that is defending moral values, Russia. And now Russia has to defend its people from evil jewish nazi fashist antisemits. The russian army is crushing the polish blackwater mercenaries in Ukraine. But also keep in mind that the russian army is not in Ukraine.

We call this "doublethink".

:biggrin: Too funny.

[beastcat 14]

[Sgt.Spoetnik 10]

you wish,Motorola's battalion is in control of the old and new terminal,the tower and fire department,and Ukraine tries to take it back but losses lots off vehicles and men over it. beast like ive said try other links than only Ukraine tv or links ,they will lie every time!

[aleksadragutin 9]

That logic is fucked up! Not a single judge in the western world (including Serbia) would agree with that.

Of course the rapist is legally to blame, but if someone dresses with the intention to provoke people, then some might say she had it coming.

Again, the only Russian act of aggression you can find since 1991 is Georgia (which had a legal backbone by the way). I can count way more on the NATO side. So if your point is to prove that Russia is an aggressive country, history doesn't agree with you. In fact Russia has been the least active country in foreign affairs since 1991 (not counting Ukraine conflict).

[beastcat 14]

you wish,Motorola's battalion is in control of the old and new terminal,the tower and fire department,and Ukraine tries to take it back but losses lots off vehicles and men over it. beast like ive said try other links than only Ukraine tv or links ,they will lie every time!

If this makes you so mad, how about you provide something yourself? Yes, the Ukrainian media has its problems, but its still worlds ahead of russian media.

[Heeeere's johnny! 51]

let´s not forgett that it was Russia who happily destroyed the good relations with the west, not the other way around.

May I also remind everyone that it was Russia who gave a shit on ancient traditions and started a war during the olympic games? No one else dared to do that before....

I don't see this as a one-way break up. Let's not forget that NATO and Sowjet Union had an agreement in 1990 that NATO would NOT expand further east. Yet the NATO did not keep it's word.

Sure thing, supporting separatism and terrorism (yep those article about Chechen 'dissidents' that took a hostages in Moscow in 2001), installing a number of military bases around our borders, performing revolutions in nearby countries and even direct agressions against countries friendly to Russia, arming Georgian regime and pushing it to agression against us - it's Russia who destroyed good relations with the west:D:D:D BTW if such things like I've described are named "good relations" - screw it. "You don't need the enemies with such friends"©

Agreed!

btw. in cases of both Abkhazia and South Ossetia the Georgian's army technically won the local conflict( on theirs sovereign soil they crushed rebellion) until Russian forces interfere event ...

both regions were internationally (including Russia) recognize as part of Georgia for over decade

so there is quite similarity to events now on east-Ukraine where the rebels were technically on edge of being overrun until 'mighty friend came to help'

Let's not forget the situation in Libya. Rebels were almost beaten by the regular army as then western governments decided to support the rebels with hundreds of millions of dollars/euros.

It's always the same. See if the rebels can make it on their own and if not, support them under the pretense of what has happened many months ago already. That's so insincere...

Edited December 10, 2014 by Heeeere's Johnny!