Ukraine General

[oxmox 73]

Poroshenko plans referendum for NATO membership

The Ukraine want to fullfil the NATO & EU membership criterias within the next 6 years.

“We have worked out an intense plan for the next six years, so that the country meets the criteria to join the EU and to join NATO,†Poroshenko said in Kiev today.

Last week, a Kremlin official called for "a 100% guarantee" that Ukraine would not think about joining Nato.

....countries are only admitted to Nato if it believes they will "contribute to security and stability in the North Atlantic area".

“I’m taking Russia at its word that it doesn’t want to destroy the unity of Ukraine,†Der Spiegel magazine cited the German minister, Frank-Walter Steinmeier, as saying in an interview. “The reality, however, is speaking a different language.â€

At the same time, Germany’s junior ruling Social Democratic Party criticized NATO’s expansion, calling a push to increase troop numbers on the border with Russia “another wrong direction.â€

Meanwhile President Putin has signed a deal with the leader of Abkhazia, Raul Hadzhimba, which will reportedly see Russia invest $260m (£166m; 209m euros) in Georgia's breakaway region by the end of 2017. Abkhazia declared independence in 1999 following a separatist war. In 2008, Russia formally recognised the province's autonomy.

On Monday, Lithuania joined other Nato members in offering military assistance to Ukraine. It is not clear whether the aid President Dalia Grybauskaite has offered will include lethal equipment.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-11-24/ukrainians-to-decide-on-nato-membership-in-referendum.html

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30176256

[Dwarden 1125]

Ukraine can't join NATO due to territorial disputes ... same reason Georgia wasn't accepted

tho there exist some exception in triangle Greece , Turkey , Cyprus

Russia knows this and use it as Trojan to stop NATO expansion

[mistyronin 1181]

I've seen the light! All thanks to the Kremlin funded RT:

( RT in Spanish ) Ukraine can turn into a US military base and a German colony.

There are evidences of an all-out war in Ukraine that must move the Eastern Russian Speaking population and turn the country into a giant US military base and a new German Colony

Probably that's why there are so many Russian speaking Ukrainians fighting in the Ukraine National Guard; and why most of the area where Russian speaking Ukrainians live is in peace. :rolleyes:

If you thought that RT in English was trash, check it in Spanish... ( use Google Translate ).

Edited November 26, 2014 by MistyRonin

[Tonci87 163]

RT now has a German branch too, it´s simply mindboggling retarded......

[Xalteva 10]

I've seen the light! All thanks to the Kremlin funded RT:

Better than AlJazeera oil companies funded :)

You can use that argument with any news channel ... they don't give you money to be righteous.

[oxmox 73]

RT now has a German branch too, it´s simply mindboggling retarded......

Yes, it really is. And especially the TV show where all of the moderators are all in their early juvenile 20s without exprience. Ivan Rodionov from Ruptly is a joke how he did arguement in german TV discussions. RT.com has sometimes interesting reports or videos and the TV moderators are professional.

Edited November 26, 2014 by oxmox

[mistyronin 1181]

Better than AlJazeera oil companies funded :)

You can use that argument with any news channel ... they don't give you money to be righteous.

The main difference is that I have been able to contrast a lot of news of Al Jazeera, and they were legit while RT I also could contrast that they were bullshit.

For example a demonstrations I covered in certain city, in Al Jazeera they where describing them as they were and in RT it was like if they were describing a parallel reality.

---------- Post added at 16:50 ---------- Previous post was at 16:03 ----------

( Al Jazeera ) Ukraine's rapidly growing IDP problem

In her struggles Proshunina has become one of nearly 473,000 Ukrainians who have been dispersed across the country as internally displaced persons (IDPs), according to numbers released on Friday by the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR). This is up from 275,000 just two months ago.

Edited November 26, 2014 by MistyRonin

[oxmox 73]

The main difference is that I have been able to contrast a lot of news of Al Jazeera, and they were legit while RT I also could contrast that they were bullshit.

For example a demonstrations I covered in certain city, in Al Jazeera they where describing them as they were and in RT it was like if they were describing a parallel reality.

---------- Post added at 16:50 ---------- Previous post was at 16:03 ----------

( Al Jazeera ) Ukraine's rapidly growing IDP problem

Well you find such examples even on prestigious national TV reports, it can happen here aswell. But I understand of course the critics on Russia Today.

For example the first german national channel did report about 10.000´s of people sway their flags in protest against pro-russian seperatists in the stadium of Donetsk (Shaktar Donetsk).

The reality did look very different and at edit: 2:35 min. a private video showed how many people were in the stadium in reality.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ed_NQJl4YM

Edited November 26, 2014 by oxmox

[mistyronin 1181]

Well you find such examples even on prestigious national TV reports, it can happen here aswell. But I understand of course the critics on Russia Today.

Of course all the media give their own point of view, which some times may be opposite. And some times may exaggerate. What changes is the % and the degree.

In my experience RT tends to exaggerate or even make up most of their news. Unlike most of other media. Even compared to other Kremlin owned medias. RIA Novosti used to be pretty good, we'll see what remains in Sputnik.

[ProfTournesol 956]

RIA Novosti used to be pretty good, we'll see what remains in Sputnik.

Not much probably :(

[aleksadragutin 9]

Of course all the media give their own point of view, which some times may be opposite. And some times may exaggerate. What changes is the % and the degree.

In my experience RT tends to exaggerate or even make up most of their news. Unlike most of other media. Even compared to other Kremlin owned medias. RIA Novosti used to be pretty good, we'll see what remains in Sputnik.

Every country has a Russia Today type channel. There are also normal media in Russia, and that is important to stress out.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Every country has a Russia Today type channel. There are also normal media in Russia, and that is important to stress out.

Which ones ? Novosti was ok, i don't know any other.

[aleksadragutin 9]

Which ones ? Novosti was ok, i don't know any other.

Of course, you have to define what OK is. If nothing else then at least Novosti.

[mistyronin 1181]

Every country has a Russia Today type channel. There are also normal media in Russia, and that is important to stress out.

Indeed, in most of the countries there is a really biased channel, usually private. And I'm aware there's a few normal media in Russia. Probably on average Russian media is more biased than in other countries.

But it's also true that as today there's still few normal medias available ( most of them private ).

[ProfTournesol 956]

Of course, you have to define what OK is. If nothing else then at least Novosti.

OK would be independant from state control.

[aleksadragutin 9]

OK would be independant from state control.

You must mean ownership, because almost all of the media everywhere is under state control.

[ProfTournesol 956]

You must mean ownership, because almost all of the media everywhere is under state control.

No, i don't mean ownership. Don't play with words, everybody knows how Russia is dealing with independent journalists.

Edited November 26, 2014 by ProfTournesol
typo

[aleksadragutin 9]

No, i don't mean ownership. Don't play with words, everybody knows how Russia is dealing with independent journalists.

Oh my, Wikipedia again.

I'm not playing with words, I was just asking what you meant by "state control". If the standard is completely independent and detached from any source of power or interests, then you won't have much luck finding them anywhere in the world. Although many media present them self as such, they are not.

[ProfTournesol 956]

That's your problem, you see. Not being able to see what independent means, because you've lost any sense of criticism. It's only a matter of common sense. BTW those wikipedia sources are reliable, by the fact they are quoting their sources, which you can check.

[aleksadragutin 9]

That's your problem, you see. Not being able to see what independent means, because you've lost any sense of criticism. It's only a matter of common sense.

Actually, I believe I have much more sense of criticism then many here (there are exceptions off course). Cause you see in modern times it is very important to define independent, because by its true definition, nothing is independent anymore.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Yeah whatever.

Interesting report of Human Right Watch about what happens in Crimea now. That's not exactly Putin's promised Disneyland : http://www.hrw.org/reports/2014/11/17/rights-retreat-0

Human rights protections in Crimea have been severely curtailed since Russia began its occupation of the peninsula in February 2014. In the past eight months, the de facto authorities in Crimea have limited free expression, restricted peaceful assembly, and intimidated and harassed those who have opposed Russia’s actions in Crimea.

[maturin 12]

Then let's leave aside the issue of independence and discuss bias, journalistic standards and honesty. Because by those measures Russian mass media is objectively atrocious, beyond comparison even with the likes of Fox News and Daily Mail.

[Tonci87 163]

Then let's leave aside the issue of independence and discuss bias, journalistic standards and honesty. Because by those measures Russian mass media is objectively atrocious, beyond comparison even with the likes of Fox News and Daily Mail.

And beeing equally or even more fucked up as Fox is quite an achievement.

[ProfTournesol 956]

And beeing equally or even more fucked up as Fox is quite an achievement.

Indeed.

[negah 26]

And what exactly do we understand under russian media? RT and one or two other magazines which we do happen to know?

I doubt most of us has experience with most of the russian media sources, least of all with the ones in russian.

We follow mostly the well known magazines (RT, RIA/Sputnik, ITAR-TASS), which are meant for the masses.

And as it happens those are the most retarded ones, just like RT, Fox News or the german Bild magazine. Though here I must say that RIA (havent seen much of Sputnik yet) and ITAR-TASS are not comparable with RT.

Anyway shouldnt it be discussed in the recently created Russia thread?

Edited November 27, 2014 by negah