Ukraine General

[Tonci87 163]

Guess what the Russian propaganda will make out of this. The Russian internet started to freak out when some German Tanks appeared in west Ukraine for excercises, now it´s Fallschirmjäger. :p

A real reason to worry would be if Germany sends Panzergrenadiers :rolleyes:

[surpher 1]

(svoboda.org) Ordered to lie

Source

St. Petersburg human rights activists are determined to achieve from the Ministry of Defense response to two questions: Is it true that Russian troops involved in military operations on the territory of Ukraine, and is it true that Russian soldiers killed in the war.

On request, signed by a member of the Presidential Council on Human Rights, chairman of the organization "Soldiers' Mothers of St. Petersburg" Ella Polyakova was received the following reply (original spelling and punctuation preserved):

Dear Ella M.! Your appeal, addressed to the head of the Department of Social Work of the Ministry of Defence of the Russian Federation, discussed in Command Airborne Troops. States you to handle information is untrue. Your speculation based on the information in the controlled advocated" pro-Western "and hostile with respect to the Russian Federation, the media channels. Keep calm and respect the defenders of our country. Sincerely, Deputy Commander of the Airborne Troops to work with staff Colonel V. Kupchyshyn. "

[beastcat 14]

"Donetsk is celebrating the half year anniversary of the founding of the DPR"

http://youtu.be/KLGy-EszVf8

How many people came to celebrate? 4?

[Tonci87 163]

Shit, a friend of mine has a band and they have bigger audiences than this...and they are really pretty shit.....

[beastcat 14]

The text is in russian, but the videos mostly speak for themselves.
The guy at the airport says that the dead guys are dead Ukrainians who have been disguised by the army as separatists, because the army wants to hide casualties and doesn't bury their dead. The following scenes show how the dead are really treated by the Ukraine.
The guy with the beard is saying "Look they are shooting at civilian buildings", right after they have shoot from the building with an automatic grenade launcher. (Thats russian Channel One by the way)
The scene where the guys are sitting in the field shows captured separatists who are being asked by the guy with the camera, what they were thinking when they were hiding behind civilians and why they didn't question their leaders.
The talk show part is a russian show where the guy is saying that the people at the airport are banderas who are killing peaceful russians and that they should not be taken as prisoners but all killed because they are fashists and can't be considered humans. He then goes on saying that the spotter of the army should be hanged in the center of Donetsk without court or investigation (Yes, those are his words). He also adds that they have a list with the names of the army soldiers from Saur Mogila, accusing them of destroying surrounding villages with the civilians, saying that they are not to allowed to be taken prisoner. Edited October 4, 2014 by beastcat

[oxmox 73]

US-Vice President: US Forced EU Countries to Impose Sanctions Against Russia

The United States and US President Barack Obama personally forced the European Union members to introduce sanctions against Russian over its stance on the Ukrainian crisis, US Vice President Joe Biden announced.

“It is true - they did not want to do that but again it was America’s leadership and the President of the United States insisting, oftentimes almost having to embarrass Europe to stand up and take economic hits to impose cost,†the vice president said.

Joe Biden was a big Maidan supporter and only recently in may this year he drawed attention, after it was published that his son Hunter Biden is working for Borisma Holding in the board of directors, located in the Ukraine. The Borisma Holding is one of the biggest private companies in the Ukraine for natural gas.

http://en.ria.ru/world/20141003/193605738/Biden-Says-US-Forced-EU-Countries-to-Impose-Sanctions-Against.html

https://www.freitag.de/autoren/julian-k/biden-obama-musste-eu-zu-sanktionen-zwingen

I could not find and post any source about this from other main media magazines/newspapers so far.....

Ukrainian Security Services locating: Concentration Camps & Mass Graves

"This shows the locations of concentration camps, facilities where people were tortured and kept in custody. Scenes of mass shootings and mass graves."

Ukraine's Security Service top advisor has said they are in the process of locating mass graves.

It has mapped out concentration camps located in the eastern Ukrainian cities of Slavyansk, Donetsk, and Kramatorsk. It also believes that Donetsk is the location for a number of mass graves.

Human rights organisations have long accused Kremlin-backed insurgents of committing atrocities in east Ukraine. Amnesty International has condemned Russia for fuelling the insurgents' crimes, which the watchdog says include abductions, torture and killings.

http://uatoday.tv/geopolitics/security-services-locating-mass-graves-and-concentration-camps-372137.html

Edited October 4, 2014 by oxmox

[beastcat 14]

Ukrainian Security Services locating: Concentration Camps & Mass Graves

"This shows the locations of concentration camps, facilities where people were tortured and kept in custody. Scenes of mass shootings and mass graves."

Ukraine's Security Service top advisor has said they are in the process of locating mass graves.

It has mapped out concentration camps located in the eastern Ukrainian cities of Slavyansk, Donetsk, and Kramatorsk. It also believes that Donetsk is the location for a number of mass graves.

Human rights organisations have long accused Kremlin-backed insurgents of committing atrocities in east Ukraine. Amnesty International has condemned Russia for fuelling the insurgents' crimes, which the watchdog says include abductions, torture and killings.

http://uatoday.tv/geopolitics/security-services-locating-mass-graves-and-concentration-camps-372137.html

Even though they probably call it "concentration camps" in order to make it sound more dramatic the separatists did indeed almost systematically capture civilians. Sometimes because they were against the DPR and to scare off everybody else and often to get ransom. There has been a relatively big series of articles on Die Welt, where they got a guy in Donetsk to do a public diary where you can read about all of that, since it usually falls under the table in most media (Even Ukrainian, I only remember one show where they talked about it for 40mins) and only gets mentioned on the side. The separatists are also known to steal cars whenever they can, but the russians did the same in Chechnya and Georgia already.

And since the refugees I have met (There are 12 living with my family in Kharkov) told pretty much the exact same thing I think that the Welt articles are pretty reliable and the UT video believable, since it definitely wouldn't be the first time they found mass graves.

Looks like the DPR guys are having fun at their half year anniversary party

Heres the video:

I guess they are trying to say that Ukrainians are nazis, but the funny thing is that the nazi guys are waving the DPR flags.

Nvm, the DPR guy kicked the nazi dude.

Oh yeah, not sure if this has been posted here already, but germany has sent 100+ humanitarian trucks.

"Russia: Watch authorities burn 20 TONNES of illegal EU meat"

In these boxes we have pork offal, poultry offal like turkey liver, produced in Great Britain - an overall cargo of 20 tons under the guise of Black Sea sprat.

About 20 tonnes of smuggled meat and meat products produced in the European Union (EU) was destroyed over the weekend near the port city of Novorossiysk in the south of Russia.

The cargo of pork and poultry arrived in Novorossiysk on September 14 inside a truck, according to Russia's State Veterinary and Phytosanitary Service. According to documents provided by the driver the cargo, travelling from Crimea to St. Petersburg, should have been sprat and frozen anchovies. However, customs inspectors discovered boxes containing meat produced in Belgium and the UK which is currently under an import ban.

In August, Moscow imposed a year-long embargo on meat, chilled fish, seafood, vegetables, fruits and dairy products from the EU member states, the U.S., Australia, Norway and Canada in response to sanctions against Russia.

Edited October 7, 2014 by beastcat

[Rydygier 1309]

http://kresy24.pl/56808/od-tej-bitwy-zalezy-los-ukrainy-zadecyduja-najblizsze-dni-reportaz-wideo/

Fight for the airport in Donetsk begins to resemble a second Stalingrad, so that today attack the Russians. Where else can a truce. Here shots and explosions do not go quiet for a moment. Violent attacks and counterattacks, on the ruins of the growing piles of corpses. And this will continue until one side is not going to kill the other. From this battle too much depends.

It's almost the fifth month the Ukrainian army defends Donetsk airport or actually rubble that remained after constant artillery bombardment from the separatists. On Thursday evening it seemed that this was the end. The Russians went into a violent storm, taking several terminals. Russian television proudly announced to the world that it's all over - airport taken.

Happiness did not last long - the counterattack of Ukrainian special forces once again pushed the separatists back to their former positions. They withdrew, leaving the dead on the battlefield.

"But we can not hold long such a way. If we do not get support, we will be forced to withdraw and destroy what they can, especially the runway "- says one of the soldiers from 93 Mechanized Brigade Kirowogradu. "It will not work" - says his colleague. "they'll flood holes with concrete and per week will be able to normally start from here."

That's 93 Brigade special forces is the core of the defense, supported by tanks 17 Brigade, 79 Brigade and the voluntary formations of Right Sector. "The commander of 93 Brigade, said, however, that if we withdraw, his people also" - admits Borislav Bereza the Right Sector.

"The don't give us a moment's peace, each time we entrench, then smash the strengthening using arty" - admits another defender. Ukrainians have, however, one undeniable advantage - in their hands is a maze of underground passages and shelters at the airport. Thanks to this they can get to the rear of the attackers and surprise them in the least expected place. For this reason, the separatists began their longer be called "underground ukra-s" and "cyborgs".

Even the EU bureaucrats realize strategic importance of the airport. As reported by Bloomberg, citing a source in the government of Germany, if the airport is gained, Brussels will tighten sanctions against Russia. Gaining this object may indeed have "unforeseen consequences" for the fate of the whole war. Why?

First of all, because after losing the airport Ukrainians can forget about regaining Donetsk. On the other hand - in the hands of the Russians the airport become the main military base and a supply on the offensive for the rest of the country. Also the aerial - on the grounds controlled by the separatists entered Russian fighter jets with erased inisignias. With "own" aviation separatists will be virtually insurmountable.

For now, however, the planes are useless. Moscow getting impatient. "they just sent his men in Donetsk order that the airport has to be acquired till tomorrow" - said the head of Ukrainian intelligence, General Nikolai Małomuz. According to him, offensive is lead by a mercenary nicknamed "Abkhaz", which Moscow has promised a million dollars for getting the airport. So he throws for another assaults troops, not counting the losses among the mercenaries, nor among the separatists.

There is another reason why the Russians are so viciously attack the airport. "They want to pull as many of our forces from the south of the country, where Putin is planning a decisive offensive from the Crimea" - says Andrei Lysenko, an analyst at the Ukrainian National Security Council. The fact that this offensive is imminent we reported Thursday in the article "Putin is preparing a mighty blow to the south! Otherwise Crimea will die without water, electricity and gas "

Many suggest that in the next few days fighting for the airport in Donetsk may give a breakthrough, actually deciding the fate of the war in Ukraine.

[beastcat 14]

Finally theres at least something happening in this thread. :)

[aleksadragutin 9]

Finally theres at least something happening in this thread. :)

What does "human shield" name have to do with this video? I thought that a firing a barrage and then leaving your position or shooting from buildings are common tactics.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Is the truce officially over ?

[beastcat 14]

What does "human shield" name have to do with this video? I thought that a firing a barrage and then leaving your position or shooting from buildings are common tactics.

I hope thats not a serious question.

If it is, here you go:

No, it is not common tactics to shoot from a civilian area, from churches, civilian buildings with civilians still present and then leaving. Thats a terrorist tactic.

It is a common tactic to fire artillery from a field and then moving, its not from residential buildings. Instead of firing from a field they are baiting return fire into civilians for their propaganda material.

Is the truce officially over ?

Officially? No. But the truce only existed "officially" anyway, so nothing has changed.

[aleksadragutin 9]

I hope thats not a serious question.

If it is, here you go:

No, it is not common tactics to shoot from a civilian area, from churches, civilian buildings with civilians still present and then leaving. Thats a terrorist tactic.

It is a common tactic to fire artillery from a field and then moving, its not from residential buildings. Instead of firing from a field they are baiting return fire into civilians for their propaganda material.

The thing about urban combat is that there are no open fields. I mean seriously, am I the only one that knows of "house to house" combat? They are also not the ones who invented using buildings for cover. Pretty sure that has been done before.

Ukrainian Army has been shelling populated areas for months now. That is already propaganda enough.

[Tonci87 163]

The thing about urban combat is that there are no open fields. I mean seriously, am I the only one that knows of "house to house" combat? They are also not the ones who invented using buildings for cover. Pretty sure that has been done before.

Ukrainian Army has been shelling populated areas for months now. That is already propaganda enough.

They have been shelling populated areas because the separatists, who according to their own propaganda are there to protect the citizens, deliberately use populated areas for fire missions so that they can later blame the Government forces for killing civilians when they return fire.

[aleksadragutin 9]

They have been shelling populated areas because the separatists, who according to their own propaganda are there to protect the citizens, deliberately use populated areas for fire missions so that they can later blame the Government forces for killing civilians when they return fire.

So I guess the months of shelling Donetsk are simply return fire.

[oxmox 73]

Even though they probably call it "concentration camps" in order to make it sound more dramatic the separatists did indeed almost systematically capture civilians. Sometimes because they were against the DPR and to scare off everybody else and often to get ransom. There has been a relatively big series of articles on Die Welt, where they got a guy in Donetsk to do a public diary where you can read about all of that, since it usually falls under the table in most media (Even Ukrainian, I only remember one show where they talked about it for 40mins) and only gets mentioned on the side. The separatists are also known to steal cars whenever they can, but the russians did the same in Chechnya and Georgia already.

And since the refugees I have met (There are 12 living with my family in Kharkov) told pretty much the exact same thing I think that the Welt articles are pretty reliable and the UT video believable, since it definitely wouldn't be the first time they found mass graves.

Of course keywords are used for extensive media coverage. But if there are really systematically mass killings of civilians this wont get unheard and will be in the international press after they did investigate more. When it comes to Biden, they could have choosen the word insist instead of forced, the world concenctration camp could be avoided since it is probably used for media attention and the title from your video with the 90% russians should have added "in his group/unit". Ukraine Today is the counterpart of Russian Today and both channels have similarities, its like a media war and I guess we all know already that on both sides in this conflict and in the west media manipulation did spread.

Ukraine's copycat war with Russia

Kiev is adopting the tactics of its dreaded foe.With war still raging in the east, there has been far more emphasis on fighting that war and strengthening Ukraine’s image than on reform, democracy and the rule of law.

And as Ukraine has sought to confront the Kremlin on its own turf, one of the largest areas has been the media. Ukrainian Independence Day saw the launch of Ukraine Today, a 24-hour English-language news channel focusing on Ukraine. The name alone signals that it was meant to be the counterweight to the Kremlin’s international propaganda channel Russia Today, which refers to itself simply as RT.

Though its broadcasts present a Ukrainian position absent from Russian airwaves, it presents a uniformly flattering image of Ukraine, in which bias is clear and nuance is nonexistent.

.....the funding is private. In this case, it is the pet project of Ukrainian oligarch Igor Kolomoisky *(one of the top 3 oligarchs in the Ukraine), who since March has been the appointed governor of the Dnipropetrovsk region and has worked against the separatist movement there.

Media fears

The media war is about not just what you send out but also what you let in. On Aug. 19, Ukrainian authorities banned 14 Russian television stations for “broadcasting propaganda of war and violenceâ€; one of those stations was RT......... the original law did not plan on stopping there.

The original draft of the law allowed Ukraine’s Security Council to ban any media outlet and block any website without court order if it was deemed in “security and national interests.â€

Internet blacklist law, which, while originally passed allegedly to protect minors from pornography and drugs, has since been regularly used to block and intimidate media outlets critical of the government. In Ukraine the provision was dropped, but only after international outrage at a time when Ukraine is dependent on (often insufficient) foreign support.

Attacks on the media have continued beyond this piece of legislation. After publishing an article saying that German Chancellor Angela Merkel had not kept her pledge to take the most seriously wounded soldiers to Germany for treatment, The Kiev Post, where I work, was attacked on social media by the Ukrainian Armed Forces, which labeled the newspaper a Russian agent.

None of these developments make Ukraine identical to Russia, but they raise questions about what kind of a country Ukraine will have grown into once the revolutionary dust has settled.

Over the past few months, Ukraine has been abused by Russia continuously, and under that pressure it is tempting to copy Russia’s language of strength to prove Ukraine is not weak. But if that trend is allowed to develop as the conflict continues, Ukraine risks becoming the same sort of second-rate copycat Russia that it was before the revolution.

http://www.kyivpost.com/opinion/op-ed/ian-bateson-ukraines-copycat-war-with-russia-367076.html

@beastcat

I wish you the best to your family and the 12 refugees you are living with in these hard times. Luckily you dont have to stay in the fighting areas.

Edited October 7, 2014 by oxmox

[aleksadragutin 9]

Something from my side.

http://itar-tass.com/politika/1470877

[mistyronin 1181]

Birds of a feather flock together:

( ITAR-TASS ) Russian language may be required to learn at North Korean higher education institutions

[aleksadragutin 9]

Actually, it might be good for everyone to learn at least one Slavic language, aside from Germanic and Romance languages. It is not such a strange idea.

[beastcat 14]

[mistyronin 1181]

Actually, it might be good for everyone to learn at least one Slavic language, aside from Germanic and Romance languages. It is not such a strange idea.

Uhm I don't exactly get your point. I mean languages are tools, and the NK idea to impose Russian learning was not precisely to read Tolstoi, but as always for militaristic reasons.

For the same reason, it may be even better for everyone to learn Arabic, Chinese, Hindi etc. They will be able to speak with more people than with any Slavic language.

Each language has an utility. For example with French you can make yourself understood in most of Africa, with Swedish in the Nordics, with Russian in most of Eastern Europe, with Spanish in Central and South America, with Arabic in most of Middle East and North of Africa and with English in most of the entire World.

I personally enjoy language learning ( I speak 2 and a half romance languages, 3 germanic and one slavic, I can even chat in a non-indoeuropean language like Finnish which is finno-ugric ).

[aleksadragutin 9]

Uhm I don't exactly get your point. I mean languages are tools, and the NK idea to impose Russian learning was not precisely to read Tolstoi, but as always for militaristic reasons.

For the same reason, it may be even better for everyone to learn Arabic, Chinese, Hindi etc. They will be able to speak with more people than with any Slavic language.

Each language has an utility. For example with French you can make yourself understood in most of Africa, with Swedish in the Nordics, with Russian in most of Eastern Europe, with Spanish in Central and South America, with Arabic in most of Middle East and North of Africa and with English in most of the entire World.

I personally enjoy language learning ( I speak 2 and a half romance languages, 3 germanic and one slavic, I can even chat in a non-indoeuropean language like Finnish which is finno-ugric ).

I wouldn't call it imposing, as it is mandatory to learn many foreign languages for higher education (at least in Serbia you have to learn English, French or German and Russian is optional as well as Italian), I even studied Latin at one point.

Just saying that this is nothing out of the ordinary and it shouldn't be used to serve politics.

I'm guessing that NK already has to study Chinese.

As far as Arabic goes, don't see how it's more useful than Russian (or other similar Slavic languages), because large amount of military equipment is of Soviet origin.

Edited October 8, 2014 by aleksadragutin

[beastcat 14]

Heres something about Serbia:

[Tonci87 163]

The glorious Donetsk peoples republic. According to this report a merry bunch of uneducated lowlife thugs only interested in gaining power and looting. Condeming fashism while doing the exact same things the Nazis did in 1938. Glorious Irony.

[ProfTournesol 956]

The glorious Donetsk peoples republic. According to this report a merry bunch of uneducated lowlife thugs only interested in gaining power and looting. Condeming fashism while doing the exact same things the Nazis did in 1938. Glorious Irony.

Yes, i just watched it. It was interesting, but the end was too quick, notably when the Pro Russian Vostok batallion cleaned the mess and occupied official buildings, ousting the other rebels groups.

Edited October 9, 2014 by ProfTournesol