Ukraine General

[Tonci87 163]

What you are telling me that you saw a Russian in Vienna wear a Berkut uniform? Well that dude must be pretty retarded if you ask me.

The Lugansk airport is really messed up. That was some serious Grad and heavy artillery shelling....

[aleksadragutin 9]

What you are telling me that you saw a Russian in Vienna wear a Berkut uniform? Well that dude must be pretty retarded if you ask me.

The Lugansk airport is really messed up. That was some serious Grad and heavy artillery shelling....

Why would he be retarded? The point was that anyone can find, buy and wear a uniform.

[Sgt.Spoetnik 10]

@beast: saw that last week,and indeed that is the spot they(your gov)claimed the russians used small nuclear bombs on; but they forgot when a nuke was used it would show on the pics(radiation would mess up the quality of the footage) but there was no problem to film it, btw we saw the same place weeks ago and it was damaged but not like this, so it was bombed to oblivion(but by who?,btw i know your answer)

and that berkut story have nothing to stand on; where you see the proof he wears and act as a berkut officer? i dont,only see a soldier showing him at his barracks and pics from training!?

[beastcat 14]

@beast: saw that last week,and indeed that is the spot they(your gov)claimed the russians used small nuclear bombs on; but they forgot when a nuke was used it would show on the pics(radiation would mess up the quality of the footage) but there was no problem to film it, btw we saw the same place weeks ago and it was damaged but not like this, so it was bombed to oblivion(but by who?,btw i know your answer)

They were not talking about the airport, but about this:

http://youtu.be/-QY4s1w4ons

This later turned out to be a chemical factory that makes explosives and the only thing I remember being speculated was that it was a Tochka-U explosion, which does not necessarily have to be a nuclear rocket, but comes as a frag round out of the box.

Also the speculations of some random politician do not represent the whole government, especially if he isn't even an expert.

Even RT shows how the separatists are shelling the Donetsk airport during the cease-fire with weapons that should be outside the "greyzone".

http://youtu.be/g6CRCZMsSGc

Edited September 26, 2014 by beastcat

[fragmachine 12]

Never knew Germans have such good sense of humour :cool:

It's good clippie being dropped at bull**itters:

[spooky lynx 73]

How do you explain mothers in Russia missing their sons?

You know, army is quite a dangerous thing. Even in peace time. Just as in many other countries. Here's an example how mothers in USA missing their sons:

http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/4710/94845085.88/0_6e1bf_deace5a9_XL.jpg (159 kB)

Russian army is not an exception unfortunately.

[Tonci87 163]

You know, army is quite a dangerous thing. Even in peace time. Just as in many other countries. Here's an example how mothers in USA missing their sons:

http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/4710/94845085.88/0_6e1bf_deace5a9_XL.jpg (159 kB)

Russian army is not an exception unfortunately.

Cut the BS and stop beeing disrespectfull to your own countrymen.

You know what the difference between US and Russian families is that have lost sons?

The US families will get some support from the state and their loss will be respected.

What will the Russian families get that lost their sons in a war that didn´t exist?

They get threatened to not speak to anybody about the death. No rewards, no honour, no nothing. They can´t even mark the grave of their son and mourn in peace.

How dare you defend something like that? Your attitude is a slap in the face for every honest Russian family that has lost a son in this conflict. Be ashamed of yourself.

[spooky lynx 73]

Cut the BS and stop beeing disrespectfull to your own countrymen.

You know what the difference between US and Russian families is that have lost sons?

The US families will get some support from the state and their loss will be respected.

What will the Russian families get that lost their sons in a war that didn´t exist?

They get threatened to not speak to anybody about the death. No rewards, no honour, no nothing. They can´t even mark the grave of their son and mourn in peace.

How dare you defend something like that? Your attitude is a slap in the face for every honest Russian family that has lost a son in this conflict. Be ashamed of yourself.

Dude, please calm down at first and don't tell me what to do. At second, I have seen myself how many coffins come annually from the army because of different accidents and even know who is ordered to tell the family about the fact of death and what documents do they prepare. But who should really cut the BS is those who use that sad but usual fact in their dirty game, drawing usual non-combat losses as some combat ones. You say about people get threatened, but how did you know then about all that unmarked graves and other stuff? OGS (one-granny-said) news agency? Or some facebook opposition activists? Or threats weren't so serious? Care to explain?

P.S. Folks, I've been already tired from horror tales about what's happening in my country by those who had never been here. The amount of BS spread around really makes me sad. And what makes me sad even more is that many of you are quite happy to believe in every kind of stuff if it is anti-Russian. Every attempt to counter it leads to "ZOMG YOU ARE ZOMBIFIED WITH PUTIN'S TV!!!1 HOW CAN'T YOU SEE ZE TRUTH???!!!1". Seems that one stereotype about vodka and bears is changed with evil Putin's dictatorship.

P.P.S. My state-owned ISP has Fox news, DW, France24, BBC, Euronews available. Censorship and brainwashing TV, yes...

[mistyronin 1181]

Spooky you have a strange way to associate critics against Putin with anti-Russian propaganda. And no, Putin is not Russia, nor Russia is not Putin.

There's lot of people inside Russian that complain about Putin and his authoritarian laws and measures ( also some Russians from the exile ).

Russian army intervention in Eastern Ukraine has been recognized by Putin ( and the "lost soldiers" ) and by the pro-Russian leadership ( Russian soldiers "in vacation" ).

BTW I don't understand why some people call the pro-Russians separatist, when their goal is not to separate and create an independent country but to unite with Russia, so they should be unionist ( they goal is the Union ).

As a last note, you should be aware, Spooky, to make any kind of statement pro-separatism, as according the new law Putin approved, any public show of support to separatist movements is a criminal offense in Russia.

( RIA Novosti ) Putin Signs Law Punishing Separatism with Jail

( RT ) Russian soldiers captured in Ukraine say they 'were lost' in Kiev-released video

( The Guardian ) Ukrainian rebel leader: Russian soldiers are fighting among us - video

Edited September 26, 2014 by MistyRonin

[Rydygier 1317]

http://www.deon.pl/religia/kosciol-i-swiat/z-zycia-kosciola/art,20044,mnisi-z-atosu-oglosili-anateme-przeciw-putinowi.html

To excommunication (throwing anathema) of "chief commander of the army of the Russian Federation, the Soviet KGB Colonel Vladimir Putin" called bishops, priests and monks of the Orthodox monks of the monastery of St.. Sava Serbian on Mount Athos. The reason for this decision was "unleashing the war with his brothers in the faith of Ukraine", - stated in a comprehensive message, written on behalf of the monks their superior, Athanasius.

This speech may be important for many of the faithful - clergy and laity - the Russian Orthodox Church, for which the holy for the whole of Orthodoxy mountain in Greece and monasteries located there are a great authority, which count even, at least to some extent, the state authorities . The official Russian propaganda has repeatedly alleged that the monks of Atosu fully supported the current policy of Russia and its aggression against Ukraine. After the occupation of Crimea and connecting it to the Russian pro-Kremlin media ensured that the entire Athos experienced great joy because of this.

Meanwhile, a statement of hieroschimnich (high dignity in Orthodox monasticism) Athanasius is a total contradiction of these claims, severely condemning the actions of Moscow and the president and militants of the so-called Donetsk's Republic.

According to the monk, even monks from nations traditionally russophilish as Bulgarians, Serbs and Romanians take Putin's propaganda that reaches Athos with increasing astonishment and displeasure. Therefore, talking about the mass support of Athos for Russia and warriors in the Donbas is insulated from the reality - stressed Athanasius.

Document of the monk in the many ways is biased and clearly anti-Semitic. For example throwing the responsibility for what is happening now in eastern Ukraine on the "dictatorial regimes in Russia and Ukraine" and Jewish influence in the region.

http://www.ekonomia.rp.pl/artykul/2,1144399-Wiecej-gazu-dla-Wegier.html

Hungary have secured agreement on increased gas imports from Russia's Gazprom - said Prime Minister Viktor Orban. A day earlier, the Hungarian gas pipeline operator FGSZ stopped gas supplies to Ukraine.

The operator FGSZ indefinitely suspended gas supplies to Ukraine, because the pipeline is needed to handle increased imports. This sparked protest the Ukrainian Naftogaz, which called "Hungarian partners to respect contractual obligations and EU rules."

Standard Bank analyst Timothy Ash, suggested that Hungary's agreement with Gazprom may be part of Russia's strategy towards Ukraine - Reuters notes.

Hungary is heavily dependent on Russian gas.

[aleksadragutin 9]

Spooky you have a strange way to associate critics against Putin with anti-Russian propaganda. And no, Putin is not Russia, nor Russia is not Putin.

There's lot of people inside Russian that complain about Putin and his authoritarian laws and measures ( also some Russians from the exile ).

Russian army intervention in Eastern Ukraine has been recognized by Putin ( and the "lost soldiers" ) and by the pro-Russian leadership ( Russian soldiers "in vacation" ).

BTW I don't understand why some people call the pro-Russians separatist, when their goal is not to separate and create an independent country but to unite with Russia, so they should be unionist ( they goal is the Union ).

As a last note, you should be aware, Spooky, to make any kind of statement pro-separatism, as according the new law Putin approved, any public show of support to separatist movements is a criminal offense in Russia.

( RIA Novosti ) Putin Signs Law Punishing Separatism with Jail

( RT ) Russian soldiers captured in Ukraine say they 'were lost' in Kiev-released video

( The Guardian ) Ukrainian rebel leader: Russian soldiers are fighting among us - video

They call them separatists because Russia already refused them.

As far as the "intervention" goes, there really is no solid proof that Russian army is even in Ukraine. Sending aid, sure, but not an army intervention.

[beastcat 14]

They call them separatists because Russia already refused them.

As far as the "intervention" goes, there really is no solid proof that Russian army is even in Ukraine. Sending aid, sure, but not an army intervention.

You mean just like Russia said that they have no plans on annexing Crimea?

[aleksadragutin 9]

You mean just like Russia said that they have no plans on annexing Crimea?

Technically they didn't annex it. And no, not like Crimea.

Nevertheless people are calling them separatists.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Russia did annex Crimea, there so called referendum was legally a joke.

[aleksadragutin 9]

Russia did annex Crimea, there so called referendum was legally a joke.

You can call it a joke if you want, still, Ukraine has no power in Crimea.

[spooky lynx 73]

Spooky you have a strange way to associate critics against Putin with anti-Russian propaganda. And no, Putin is not Russia, nor Russia is not Putin.

There's lot of people inside Russian that complain about Putin and his authoritarian laws and measures ( also some Russians from the exile ).

Ehm... Is it me really? Or...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bs8TN24CYAAJlYb.jpg (125 kB)

http://img.dni.ru/binaries/v2_articlephotoauto/837256.jpg (269 kB)

Russian army intervention in Eastern Ukraine has been recognized by Putin ( and the "lost soldiers" ) and by the pro-Russian leadership ( Russian soldiers "in vacation" ).

Much earlier a number of Ukrainian shells landed on Russian territory. As well as a group of BMPs with infantry crossed the border and took a firefight with our border patrol. One BMP was broken and left on our territory. What was it?

As a last note, you should be aware, Spooky, to make any kind of statement pro-separatism, as according the new law Putin approved, any public show of support to separatist movements is a criminal offense in Russia.

It's the same story as with terrorist groups in US. Everything is okay until the group fights with the regime hostile to US. At the moment when it's not needed or starts to perform independently - it is labeled terrorist.

Russia did annex Crimea, there so called referendum was legally a joke.

But... but... The similar joke at gunpoint of international group of armed forces in Kosovo was quite okay... The only difference is that in Kosovo the declaration of independence wasn't even proclaimed as the result of referendum but was made at the session of local separatist parliament. You don't agree with our right to joke?!

Oh and the Mayotte joke was fine too... Why don't you like Crimean one?

Edited September 26, 2014 by Spooky Lynx

[Tonci87 163]

The ammount of ignorance and truth twisting is astonishing....

[surpher 1]

(BBC) Russian TV sees US plot behind Ukraine and IS militants

"America is everywhere, the West is everywhere, Nato is everywhere. Everything is organised against Russia," the veteran Russian nationalist MP Vladimir Zhirinovsky railed during a talk show on Channel One, Russia's most popular TV station.

[oxmox 73]

Never knew Germans have such good sense of humour :cool:

It's good clippie being dropped at bull**itters:

Thank you posting a part of "Die Anstalt" with english subs....the whole show was hilarious not just the last 10 minutes.

By the way there was another funny part,

about the NATO who did blow the trumpet and requested more defensive spending. "Nato countries should more invest into the defence, spending more money for military"

Why actually ? Well, its quiete clear.. you see it even on the front titles of the print media.

For example the spiegel magazine: "The russians growing above our heads and the west waves a white flag"

And there are also numbers (Peace Research Institute SIPRI):

Germany, United Kingdom and France did invest $168 billion for defence spending.

The NATO for Europe did spent $268 billion for defence spending.

Fortunately the USA comes aswell with their $640 billions for defence spending otherwise "we would not have any chance"

Altogether: $945 billion for defence spending which we need "otherwise we would not have any chance .....

against .............Russia" with their: $88 billion for defence spending.

So, we spent more than 10x for armor in comparison to russia and therefore Rasmussen did of course prompt to invest more into armor.

Never knew Germans have such good sense of humour

you need to watch more german tv then... :D When it comes to this political satire show, every part I watched so far about different topics was funny. The show exists since years. In germany we have a lot of critical journalism/reports/TV broadcasts/discussion shows and this should be a part of our all freedom, isnt it.

Edited September 26, 2014 by oxmox

[Sgt.Spoetnik 10]

Is he not right? the west and the US ARE every where, messing about,using their might and money to overtrow anyone thats stand in their way!? and destroying countless lives for more gain ,power and money? and to protect their own intrests like the petrodollar! its pretty obvious no?

yeah enjoyed it to oxmox,great show,specially the one you showed! its even on RT now, they enjoyed it 2 ;)

http://rt.com/news/190992-german-comedy-media-ukraine/

Edited September 26, 2014 by Sgt.Spoetnik

[mistyronin 1181]

Ehm...

In all that press covers, you can only see the name Putin.

That someone is against Putin and his policies it doesn't have any thing to do with being anti-Russian. In fact a lot of proud Russians criticize deeply the authoritarian and despotic Putin.

Much earlier a number of Ukrainian shells landed on Russian territory. As well as a group of BMPs with infantry crossed the border and took a firefight with our border patrol. One BMP was broken and left on our territory. What was it?

What are you trying to connect?

Ukrainian soldiers that in the middle of a fight were pushed into Russian territory ( just in the border ). And Ukraine shells that felt in a border village.

With Russian soldiers dozens of kilometers inside Ukraine, and Pro-Russian leaders saying that more than one thousand Russian soldiers ( on vacation ) are fighting in their side.

It's the same story as with terrorist groups in US. Everything is okay until the group fights with the regime hostile to US. At the moment when it's not needed or starts to perform independently - it is labeled terrorist.

In the US or in EU if a group is considered terrorist, is prosecuted at all times.

IBut... but... The similar joke at gunpoint of international group of armed forces in Kosovo was quite okay... The only difference is that in Kosovo the declaration of independence wasn't even proclaimed as the result of referendum but was made at the session of local separatist parliament. You don't agree with our right to joke?!

But how can you even compare that situations.

After the fall of Yugoslavia, when a lot of territories seceded and Serbia tried to keep them by force ( with awful wars, that killed thousands of people ). Kosovo was just one territory more, just a little one that suffered more.

The NATO alliance, choose to cease the fight after years of combats following the United Nations Security Council Resolution 1244, which had no vote against it ( so Russia allowed the mission in Kosovo ).

9 years later

Kosovo parliament declared the independence. I think its local population had time enough in 9 years to know what they preferred. All democratic warranties were followed ( there was even Russian peacekeepers for a while ).

While Crimea was invaded militarily by Russia and just days after the invasion, with a strong censorship of medias, under armed control the fake referendum took place without any democratic guarantee.

I appreciate your efforts to defend your point of view, but your arguments are quite pathetic and fall under their own weight.

[beastcat 14]

The News Pl - Poland sells military drones to Ukraine

Speaking at the 11th Arms and Security exhibition in Kiev, Ukrainian chairman of parliament Oleksandr Turchynov said that the government is buying drone aircraft from Poland to assist 'anti-terrorist' operations in rebel-held areas of eastern Ukraine.

“It's very important to us, and our Polish colleagues want to supply these products to Ukraine," Oleksandr Turchynov is quoted by Interfax as saying. The Polish unmanned aircraft are able to lift up to 15 kilograms of cargo, including arms, he said, and would be used immediately in battle zones.

The Moscow Times - Russia Fights to Keep Veto Right in UN Security Council

Moscow opposes calls to limit veto rights for UN Security Council members, a Russian diplomat was quoted as saying by TASS news agency Friday.

"We're against any change in veto rights," Russia's envoy to the UN, Vitaly Churkin, said on the sidelines of the 69th UN General Assembly in New York.

He added that "talks about a reform of the Security Council need to continue," but did not elaborate.

A proposal to suspend veto rights in the event of grave crimes against humanity that mandate urgent reaction, pitched in 2013 by France, was revived at a high-profile discussion at the assembly.

Separately, Polish President Bronislaw Komorowski urged a reform of the Security Council in a speech at the assembly.

Komorowski gave no outline for the reform, but explicitly linked his calls to the conflict in eastern Ukraine, where Russia is accused of backing pro-Moscow separatists who are fighting the Ukrainian army.

Edited September 27, 2014 by beastcat

[spooky lynx 73]

In all that press covers, you can only see the name Putin.

That someone is against Putin and his policies it doesn't have any thing to do with being anti-Russian. In fact a lot of proud Russians criticize deeply the authoritarian and despotic Putin.

IRL many foreigners are associating all Russians with this crash and argue 'Why had you shot down the Boeing?!' already. Due to this perfectly orchestrated hysteria in media. So please do not turn naive girl mode on, you know that Putin is not some abstract person of Russian origin but the president.

What are you trying to connect?

Ukrainian soldiers that in the middle of a fight were pushed into Russian territory ( just in the border ). And Ukraine shells that felt in a border village.

With Russian soldiers dozens of kilometers inside Ukraine, and Pro-Russian leaders saying that more than one thousand Russian soldiers ( on vacation ) are fighting in their side.

Dozens of kilometers? According to who? To those who claim that we used nukes against glorious UA army? I have some other info - that the group of soldiers was kidnapped at the border and then brought further to UA territory.

In the US or in EU if a group is considered terrorist, is prosecuted at all times.

If it is considered. And often it is considered only after some order from politicians. For example Chechen seps weren't labeled as terrorists until 2000's despite pure acts of terrorism committed by them such as massive hostage taking. Due to political moments it was totally okay for all so-called democratic countries and organizations that they opressed non-Chechen population before first war and killed many, took a hostages in two hospitals and then committed large number of crimes after gaining de-facto independence until 1999. Sure, all this was done against Russia, so it is okay. And that were the dissidents that took a hostages in the theatre, not terrorists...

But how can you even compare that situations.

Indeed, the Crimea escaped the bloody war and massive destructions, ethnic cleansings and profanation of christian churches, no ethnic group had to flee in masses out of the Crimea, it got three official languages (instead of a single Ukrainian one)... How bad! What a horrible human rights violations! Indeed we must have been not stopped the 'trains of friendship' with Ukrainian ultra-right activists and permit the same things that were done in Harkov, Odessa and Mariupol. That would be truly free and democratic way, yes? And we should have been move our fleet out of Crimea and welcome US one there... Right next to our border.

Edited September 27, 2014 by Spooky Lynx

[beastcat 14]

Defense 24 - Russian systems Pancyr-S1 in the hands of separatists [Google Translate]

According to the German newspaper "Bild", referring to the report of the German Federal Intelligence Service BND (German. Bundesnachrichtendienst), in the hands of the so-called separatists operating in eastern Ukraine, there are numerous Russian antiaircraft systems. This document was created for the needs of the German authorities, in connection with the interpellation of one of the opposition members of the Bundestag.

The anti Pancyr-S1 is armed with two 30 mm cannons and anti-aircraft missiles twelve 57E6 or 57E6-E. It has both radar and optical tracking system and detection, which provides a high degree of autonomy and efficiency. The range combat purposes reaches 12 km with missiles and 4 km using plots of 30 mm. Wheel sets Pancyr-S1 gradually replace the Russian armed forces tracked vehicles Tunguska-M1. Besides Russia system of this type has ordered several Arab countries and Brazil.

Edited September 27, 2014 by beastcat

[aleksadragutin 9]

In all that press covers, you can only see the name Putin.

That someone is against Putin and his policies it doesn't have any thing to do with being anti-Russian. In fact a lot of proud Russians criticize deeply the authoritarian and despotic Putin.

What are you trying to connect?

Ukrainian soldiers that in the middle of a fight were pushed into Russian territory ( just in the border ). And Ukraine shells that felt in a border village.

With Russian soldiers dozens of kilometers inside Ukraine, and Pro-Russian leaders saying that more than one thousand Russian soldiers ( on vacation ) are fighting in their side.

In the US or in EU if a group is considered terrorist, is prosecuted at all times.

But how can you even compare that situations.

After the fall of Yugoslavia, when a lot of territories seceded and Serbia tried to keep them by force ( with awful wars, that killed thousands of people ). Kosovo was just one territory more, just a little one that suffered more.

The NATO alliance, choose to cease the fight after years of combats following the United Nations Security Council Resolution 1244, which had no vote against it ( so Russia allowed the mission in Kosovo ).

9 years later

Kosovo parliament declared the independence. I think its local population had time enough in 9 years to know what they preferred. All democratic warranties were followed ( there was even Russian peacekeepers for a while ).

While Crimea was invaded militarily by Russia and just days after the invasion, with a strong censorship of medias, under armed control the fake referendum took place without any democratic guarantee.

I appreciate your efforts to defend your point of view, but your arguments are quite pathetic and fall under their own weight.

Before Kosovo declared anything, thousands of terrorist crossed the border and started attacks all over Serbia. Then there's the fact that Kosovo has always been Serbian with minorities illegally crossing the border, and if that is not enough, there's a legal joke of a declaration of independence which was made legal in the eye's of the west. Kosovo has nothing to do with previous Yugoslav wars. It was a battle against terrorism on our territory much like the US invading foreign countries to stop terrorist (just more legal).

Just wanted to make this clear so you can see how the Crimea scenario is made possible by the Kosovo one.