Ukraine General

[arttem 1]

http://www.pravda.com.ua/articles/2014/05/6/7024570/

they claim they catch secret Russian doccuments, according which, Russia prepares separation of Ukraine territory

Very strange. Maybe it's a true. But that document have no official stamp or maybe family name in the end of it. Look in the end of document. No data, no officials names who is responsible. Only the "Lugansk People Republic". And open data field.

But who knows. Yersteday in news there was a report that smbdy in Kiev prepare provocation. It will be group of people, "greenpeople", in Russian new ammunition, with Russian passports.

I just can't understand only one thing. Who tell them, that we work on operations with passports or any another documents? Who was that clown?

Edited May 7, 2014 by ArtTem

[Tonci87 163]

Very strange. Maybe it's a true. But that document have no official stamp or maybe family name in the end of it. Look in the end of document. No data, no officials names who is responsible. Only the "Lugansk People Republic". And open data field.

But who knows. Yersteday in news there was a report that smbdy in Kiev prepare provocation. It will be group of people, "greenpeople", in Russian new ammunition, with Russian passports.

I just can't understand only one thing. Who tell them, that we work on operations with passports or any another documents? Who was that clown?

OK, just to get this question out before something like that even happens. Why would Kiew want to prepare a provocation? You understand that they are scared as hell that the Russian Army might invade and they are doing everything they can to avert that. Apart from stupid commanders this is indeed the main reason why the operations in the east are going so terribly slow. So why should they do something like that?

This report you write about seems more like an preemptive excuse for the Russian army so that they can claim that Russian forces aren´t really Russian forces but Kiew provocateurs with Russian passports (yeah lol, who would take his passport on such an operation....). I think it is completely made up and just art of the "propaganda war".

About that Bank: So they simly declared bankruptcy? Wow that sucks but I guess it also affects the Ukrainians. The bank didn´t work exclusively on the Krim right?

[mistyronin 1181]

The men that love animals.

[Tonci87 163]

Oh come on, that is cheap. I too like animals (although I prefer them on the table) :p

[mistyronin 1181]

Oh come on, that is cheap. I too like animals (although I prefer them on the table) :p

I'm just doing some parallelisms as the Russian Media does, but at least I look for nice photos of our beloved leader:

---------- Post added at 16:35 ---------- Previous post was at 16:08 ----------

In few words. People can't understand with whom GF was fighting on that tower. It wasn't broadcasting Russian TV. And it was empty. Only one old man. But they was fighting with phantoms for 1-2 hours. Destroying everything surround em. Then forces of federalization supporters came from city to local people for help and real combat began. After 5 hours of combat action, government forces retreated.

I don't know what that tower that you said that was empty and abandoned has:

The clashes come as the anti-government militia are trying to retake a TV tower and several checkpoints previously captured by Kiev's troops, Interfax reports, citing a militia source.

It's from the main source of the Kremlin's external self-awarded 'objective' propaganda media:

( RT ) Clashes in Slavyansk as Kiev's troops maintain chokehold

[arttem 1]

OK, just to get this question out before something like that even happens. Why would Kiew want to prepare a provocation? You understand that they are scared as hell that the Russian Army might invade and they are doing everything they can to avert that. Apart from stupid commanders this is indeed the main reason why the operations in the east are going so terribly slow. So why should they do something like that?

This report you write about seems more like an preemptive excuse for the Russian army so that they can claim that Russian forces aren´t really Russian forces but Kiew provocateurs with Russian passports (yeah lol, who would take his passport on such an operation....). I think it is completely made up and just art of the "propaganda war".

About that Bank: So they simly declared bankruptcy? Wow that sucks but I guess it also affects the Ukrainians. The bank didn´t work exclusively on the Krim right?

1 block. I wasn't try to hide for example Rus Forces invasion. If our Army will move or "greenpeople" moves, everybody will know about that without me. And it's very hard to hide. It was just my irony about Ukraine politics statements (government).

Example:

Russian officer Strelkov with a group of saboteurs is a breakthrough from Slavyansk - Tymchuk

The commander of the Russian saboteurs Igor Strelkov (officer of the Main intelligence Directorate of the General staff of the Armed forces of the Russian Federation Igor Girkin) with a group of subordinates is a breakthrough from Slavyansk.

****

Ukrainian European champion in javelin throwing accept Russian citizenship against her will.

European champion and record holder of Ukraine in the javelin throwing Vera Rebrik from Yalta after almost two months of reflection decided that will be represent Russia.

****

Ukraine is ready to give more power to the East and South, than Russia gives its republics and regions - Kerry.

â€Frankly speaking, the Ukrainian government has offered more power to the people on the East and South of Ukraine in matters of daily management than Russia gives any Autonomous Republic or oblast in Russia. And that's a fact!â€, - added the head of American diplomacy.

****

Ukrainian aircraft destroyed an armored train terrorists under Slavyansk.

After confirmation from intelligence forces and means of army aviation, terrorist plans were ruined - this train for use in subversive and terrorist activities will never leave Slavyansk, UNIAN reported in the Ministry of defense.

****

Crimea could be introuble with food.

"Crimea is significantly import-dependent from Ukraine... How it will continue to supply themselves with food without mainland Ukraine - open question," said Kolesnik.

****

Crimeans are offered to drink two times less water.

Occupation authorities believe that the daily consumption of water, including drinking water, residents of the Peninsula it is desirable to reduce by half.

****

Slavyansk residents not go out to streets and spend every night right on the job.

In the so-called "blind" bullet the people do not believe, they say it's a aimed shooting. Local militia handed weapons out to the right and to the left the first comer.

Parents are reluctant to send their children to school, and getting there is not, because transportation is not working.

****

The New York Times: Kiev is trying to weaken Russia's control over gas flow.

It is here that Russian natural gas at $ 20 billions proceeds each year through the huge underground pipeline, in order to get into Europe after overcoming almost 5 thousand km of the way from Siberia. And it is here that believes the Pro-European government in Kiev, Ukraine may finally break out of the grip of Gazprom, the energy giant Russia, controlled by the state.

****

Turchynov: provocations in Kiev possible in 9 of may.

"Their goal is to overthrow the government in Kiev. In the capital checkpoints with serious test created, because we expected that on may 9 can be provocative actions. Not only in the capital. We must be careful in all regions of the country, where it can be saboteurs, provocateurs. ... Against us war. We are preparing. Already installed checkpoints," said Turchynov.

****

Kramatorsk separatists have kidnapped a Deputy of the city Council. Demand ransom by sandbags.

In Kramatorsk armed men seized Director of Kramatorsk tram and trolleybus administration, deputies of the city Council Sergey Shatsk, whom they want to exchange on the sand bags.

****

For the last 3 days from Transdniestria 250 "Putin tourists" sneaked into Ukraine - Tymchuk

****

250 saboteurs from Transdniestria didn't sneak into Ukraine, Administration of State frontier service of Ukraine

****

Pfffff, should i continue or maybe you want more weird statements? :)

_________________________________________________________________________

I don't know what that tower that you said that was empty and abandoned has:

It's from the main source of the Kremlin's external self-awarded 'objective' propaganda media:

( RT ) Clashes in Slavyansk as Kiev's troops maintain chokehold

They are telling you about what date in may month? And about what i was speaking?

On that time when i post to you. I give a link to news from 4 of may there was explanation about 3 of may. We don't have any info about tower on that time. But later i was posting video about Mi-24 wich attack that tower, supporting GF there.

In another words:

In 5 of may. When new ATO began. GF seized that tower. FedSup try to knock them out. But GF was supported by Mi-24. The video in previous posts. Now there is a GF field base near that tower. And they placed snipers on tower.

You must understand that situation in Slavyansk changes each day.

****

He have his own pet. Misty specialy for you.

http://s020.radikal.ru/i722/1405/38/f229a8b4b278.png (1732 kB)

Edited May 8, 2014 by ArtTem

[surpher 1]

(BBC) Ukraine crisis: Russia's Putin 'backs' 25 May election

SkyNews UK ticker also say Russian military is withdrawing from the Ukrainian border according to Reuters.

[mistyronin 1181]

You must understand that situation in Slavyansk changes each day.

To me it's really curious that in 48 hours an abandoned TV tower were the Ukrainian Army was losing time and faking an attack, according to you, has turned into one of the main targets for the insurgents militia attack.

That tower must have something, specially having in mind that in the last weeks that tower had been assaulted by the different sides a few times.

(BBC) Ukraine crisis: Russia's Putin 'backs' 25 May election SkyNews UK ticker also say Russian military is withdrawing from the Ukrainian border according to Reuters.

I can't believe it, it seems that the next series of sanctions threat have had some effect.

Well a good piece of news for the democrats of the world :)

Edited May 7, 2014 by MistyRonin

[arttem 1]

That tower must have something, specially having in mind that in the last weeks that tower had been assaulted by the different sides a few times.

It shows me next time how "deep" west collegues delve into the situation. Let me ease your suffering. That tower is the super position to monitor the area. Because it is on the hill.

****

I can't believe it, it seems that the next series of sanctions threat have had some effect.

Yes, but not to Russia.

For example:

London stock exchange third day opens with falling of quotations.

http://s006.radikal.ru/i213/1405/9c/c26445742e49.png (236 kB)

If smdy in EU don't know economy it's not mine or Russians or Putins problem.

But yes, you have a rights to believe in anything you like.

****

From local Slavyansk forum.

« Ответ #1482 : Ð¡ÐµÐ³Ð¾Ð´Ð½Ñ Ð² 12:48:21 »

25 minutes ago in the area of "Zeus-Keramiki" probably on Andrew railway crossing, something heavy was working. Managed to make a photo only smoke from the explosions.

http://i61.fastpic.ru/big/2014/0507/ae/5619d6d23f39afbe35082b08a158dcae.jpg (701 kB)

Edited May 7, 2014 by ArtTem

[mistyronin 1181]

Yes, but not to Russia.

For example:

London stock exchange third day opens with falling of quotations.

If smdy in EU don't know economy it's not mine or Russians or Putins problem.

The London stock exchange opened for third day with "falling of quotations". Three days... Aha...

Yeah in the EU, people don't know about economics... Of course...

Let's listen to the Russian Deputy Economy Minister Sergei Belyakov:

( Reuters ) Russian government admits economy in crisis as Ukraine weighs

Russia's government acknowledged for the first time on Monday that the economy was in crisis, undermining earlier attempts by officials to suggest albeit weakening growth could weather sanctions over Ukraine.

Moscow markets wait to see the full scale of western measures over the seizure of Ukraine's Crimea and support of its referendum to join Russia, after losing billions of dollars in recent weeks in state and corporate money.

For weeks, Russian officials have said the confrontation between Moscow and the West over Ukraine that threatens economic sanctions and asset freezes would "weigh on the economy".

Although not speaking directly about the impact from the conflict, Deputy Economy Minister Sergei Belyakov said on Monday the economy was in trouble.

"The economic situation shows clear signs of a crisis," Belyakov told a local business conference.

[Tonci87 163]

So it is not capture the flag but capture the tower now? :p

[arttem 1]

The London stock exchange opened for third day with "falling of quotations". Three days... Aha...

Yeah in the EU, people don't know about economics... Of course...

Let's listen to the Russian Deputy Economy Minister Sergei Belyakov:

( Reuters ) Russian government admits economy in crisis as Ukraine weighs

Yes it's nice that you know how to use google. But seems that you don't understand about what i'm talking at all.

That article from 17 of march. Lets look closer on the Rus market from that date:

It seems word boomerang doesn't mean to you anything.

[ProfTournesol 956]

You can't describe any effects on the real economy just by looking at stock market charts, unless they are long term ones.

[arttem 1]

You can't describe any effects on the real economy just by looking at stock market charts, unless they are long term ones.

Realy? Me? Yes. I was talking many times. We can seat with zero GDP and just sell resourses. The securities market shows the attitude of the owners to the situation. They either immediately get rid of them, or buy, thus making investments.

[ProfTournesol 956]

I was talking about real economy, thus the companies. The stock market is more or less a casino which is disconnected with the economy, and moreover most of the stocks exchanged are bought or sold only on speculating purposes (to simplify, the money is exchanged between owners of the shares, but the companies don't see a penny of them). And zero GDP doesn't mean anything my bad, extracting raw materials create GDP, as it creates value added.

[surpher 1]

This Russian empire will crumble just like the last one

Opinion: Weakened economy will collapse under burden of Ukraine annexation

[arttem 1]

And zero GDP doesn't mean anything my bad, extracting raw materials create GDP, as it creates value added.

Here you absolutly right. I was using radical expression. Means that it's hard to break economy of country which full of resources.

****

So it is not capture the flag but capture the tower now? :p

I think the game is over. Session will be closed soon. GF start to use heavy artillery. (rumors)

I see from different sources speeches about mortars. I believe in that. According to posts and photos from locals. But info about heavy artillery must be checked.

[mistyronin 1181]

Here you absolutly right. I was using radical expression. Means that it's hard to break economy of country which full of resources.

Unless you are one of their main clients and decide not to buy that resources. I don't know if you have studied Economy but the main cause of the Economical crisis in the 20th century is to have too many products and not being able to sell them ( '29 Crack, 70s, the 2008 one...

To who is Russia selling its products / resources?

Let's make it simple, Russia depends on the EU. But EU can buy the resources Russia provide from other sources ( Africa, America, other Asiatic providers ). But Russia can't find any other source of money.

I think the game is over. Session will be closed soon. GF start to use heavy artillery. (rumors)

Would be nice if you share any info you find related to that. But IMO the use of artillery wouldn't change much.

---------- Post added at 19:43 ---------- Previous post was at 19:36 ----------

But you may be right about the "Game Over":

( The Guardian ) Putin says referendum on autonomy should be postponed

Following days of soaring tension that have left dozens dead and fed fears of a civil war in Ukraine, Russia's president, Vladimir Putin, said the referendum being staged by pro-Russia separatists in parts of eastern Ukraine on Sunday should be postponed.

Overt Russian support for the plebiscite could have triggered more substantive EU and US sanctions against Russia. Putin's statement, following talks with the president of Switzerland in Moscow, looked likely to delay the imposition of a harsher round of economic penalties.

While Moscow has also always opposed the holding of presidential elections in Ukraine on 25 May, a ballot strongly supported by the west, Putin also sounded more conciliatory, saying that the poll could be a step in the right direction.

Putin said the Russian troops have been pulled back from the Ukrainian border to their training grounds and locations for "regular exercises," but did not specify whether those locations were in areas near Ukraine. However, Nato and the Pentagon both said they had seen no indication of a change in the position of Russian military forces.

Edited May 7, 2014 by MistyRonin

[ProfTournesol 956]

So, Putin is pulling back his troops, wishes to postpone the pro Russian referendum and is backing the presidential elections :confused:

[arttem 1]

But Russia can't find any other source of money.

It's a Hitler with Putin mask. Let's say he remember previous errors, and he found. :)

[ProfTournesol 956]

It's a Hitler with Putin mask. Let's say he remember previous errors, and he found. :)

[mistyronin 1181]

It's a Hitler with Putin mask. Let's say he remember previous errors, and he found. :)

Well. If that becomes true. Putin would keep Crimea, so he would be like Hitler after the Munich Agreement ( which doesn't give me much hope for the future ).

We still have to see what's gonna be Putin's next step, if he is gonna step down or create a bigger fight.

( Main source of Kremlin's propaganda, A.K.A. RT ) Putin calls for end to Kiev’s military op, postponing referendum in E. Ukraine

“We are calling for southeast Ukraine representatives, supporters of federalization of the country, to postpone the May 11 referendum to create the necessary conditions for dialogue,†Putin said at a press conference with OSCE Chairperson-in-Office and Swiss President Didier Burkhalter in Moscow.

“We have been told that our troops on the Ukrainian border are a concern – we have withdrawn them. They are now not on Ukrainian territory, but at locations where they conduct regular drills at ranges,†he said.

“Moscow is interested in a swift resolution of the crisis in Ukraine, taking into consideration the interests of all people of the country,†he said.

Edited May 7, 2014 by MistyRonin

[spooky lynx 73]

Let's make it simple, Russia depends on the EU. But EU can buy the resources Russia provide from other sources ( Africa, America, other Asiatic providers ). But Russia can't find any other source of money.

It's dual dependence. We sell resources. At the same time we are big market for many things made in EU. In case of quitting trade relations both EU and Russia can find other markets and sources indeed. But it takes time during which lots of people lose money. Huge money. And moreover many of them lose money they use to live. It's easy to talk about EU can buy resources, but will it be easy to withstand the period when old sources won't be available and new ones won't be available for the same amount as old ones? The same goes to Russia BTW.

[arttem 1]

(which doesn't give me much hope for the future)

Whats the problem? The whole planet doesn't have any future and you worry only for yourself. The West as always....

The Americans propagate that it's time to fly to Mars now. :) But after this story we officially, at the state level, offer them to use the trampoline. So they still have to answer for the mess they made on this planet. :)

[mistyronin 1181]

It's dual dependence. We sell resources. At the same time we are big market for many things made in EU. In case of quitting trade relations both EU and Russia can find other markets and sources indeed. But it takes time during which lots of people lose money. Huge money. And moreover many of them lose money they use to live. It's easy to talk about EU can buy resources, but will it be easy to withstand the period when old sources won't be available and new ones won't be available for the same amount as old ones? The same goes to Russia BTW.

I agree with you that the best for both is to have good relations. And obviously EU could buy the resources they need but they would pay a toll ( it's obviously more expensive to bring gas from America than from Russia ). But Russian main "treasure" right now are its resources ( they don't have any Silicon Valley, Baden-Württemberg, Catalonia, Rhône-Alpes or Lombardy, etc. ).

Obviously in the future all can change and Russia build more reliable sources of money and progress.