Ukraine General

[mistyronin 1181]

No problem. His name Nikolay. Nikolay the second, the last imperor of Russia.

As I said in my last post he was IMO worst than a fascist, he didn't cared about his own Russian people keeping it in a medieval feudal rule, he also implemented measures to destroy other cultures ( like the Finnish ), keep his imperialism expansionism with the war with Japan ( and even checkin to invade China ) etc.

He can not be a Putin father, just because it's a Ukrainian cossacks.

I don't think it matters much who's Putin's father, as the kids do not usually follow the parent's lead. What matters is who is Putin now, and what actions he is taking.

[arttem 1]

I don't think it matters much who's Putin's father, as the kids do not usually follow the parent's lead. What matters is who is Putin now, and what actions he is taking.

:) Misty i don't have any questions to you.

P.S. Some people from thread don't understand that Terek wolfpack is from Crimea. It's an Ukrainian cossacks. Who switched now into Russian side. (clever boys) And with the name of tri-color making some bad things. But overall cossacks is our history. Big history.

[sudayev 27]

[/color]

He can not be a Putin father, just because it's a Ukrainian cossacks.

You shouldn't get too excited, its known what Putin's father was doing during the war amd that's just a visual resemblance that appeared around 2007 andm now debunked.

And cossack are from Russian RONA units and man in the middle is their commander Ivan Frolow, russian collaborator. And here is the list of RONA units used in Warsaw Uprising - IV(Kosaken)/ Sicherungs Regiment 57, Kosaken Abteilung 69, Kosaken Schutzmannschafts Btl. 209, Kosaken Btl. 572. Cossacks during Warsaw Up. were also gathered under banner of 5rd regiment of Kuban cossacks. These men were definitely mixed from both - nowaday Ukraine & Russia.

Edited April 23, 2014 by Sudayev

[scrim 1]

If it's "let's quote the worst source on the Internet" day, let's go ahead and look up "Fascism":

Fascists sought to unify their nation through an authoritarian state that promoted the mass mobilization of the national community and were characterized by having leadership that initiated a revolutionary political movement aiming to reorganize the nation along principles according to fascist ideology. Fascist movements shared certain common features, including the veneration of the state, a devotion to a strong leader, and an emphasis on ultranationalism and militarism. Fascism views political violence, war, and imperialism as a means to achieve national rejuvenation, and it asserts that stronger nations have the right to expand their territory by displacing weaker nations.

Ring a bell with the Putin worshipers?

[arttem 1]

You shouldn't get too excited, its known what Putin's father was doing during the war amd that's just a visual resemblance that appeared around 2007 andm now debunked.

And cossack are from Russian RONA units - IV(Kosaken)/Sicherungs Regiment 57, Kosaken Abteilung 69, Kosaken Schutzmannschafts Btl. 209, Kosaken Btl. 572. And the man in the middle is Ivan Frolow, russian comander. Cossacks in Warsaw were also gathered under banner of 5rd regiment of Kuban cossacks. These men were definitely mixed from both - nowaday Ukraine & Russia.

They are not Russians, they are traitors. Yes, Kuban. Right. And what? They was fighting against communists. Do you realize that it's not so simple question to blame everybody?

I'm not excited. I don't like when smbd play with history to get comfortable position. Do you remember with whom that cossacks was fighting in Warsaw? With communists? But you blame communists, so, for what purposes you show that photos to me?

Edited April 23, 2014 by ArtTem

[scrim 1]

Do you remember with whom that cossacks was fighting in Warsaw? With communists? But you blame communists, so, for what purposes you show that photos to me?

Please travel to Warsaw, and tell the people of that city that the Home Army, which the Russians allowed the Nazis to destroy along with the city, was Communist. I dare you.

And for the record, yes, they are Russians. Committing treason doesn't change your ethnicity.

[mistyronin 1181]

Meanwhile ( I added the link to the referred RT inside the quote ) :

( BBC ) Russia 'to respond if its interests' attacked

Russia will respond if its interests in Ukraine are attacked, Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov has said, drawing a parallel with the 2008 Georgian war.

Speaking to Russian state TV channel RT, Mr Lavrov also accused the US of "running the show" in Ukraine.

And in a statement, Russia's foreign ministry repeated its call for Ukraine to withdraw military units from the country's east.

Ukraine's government faces an armed revolt there by pro-Russia separatists.

Kiev and the West say Moscow commands gunmen in eastern Ukraine - something Russia denies.

In recent weeks, pro-Russian militants have seized administrative buildings in at least a dozen towns in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions.

They have installed their own officials, in similar tactics to those used to take over the Ukrainian region of Crimea earlier this year.

[ProfTournesol 956]

So Russia is ordering a foreign country to withdraw its own troops for its own country eastern part, while Russian irregulars are creating troubles in the given country ? Is it Lavrov or Molotov ?

[mistyronin 1181]

So Russia is ordering a foreign country to withdraw its own troops for its own country eastern part, while Russian irregulars are creating troubles in the given country ? Is it Lavrov or Molotov ?

You forgot Putin's speech about Novorossiya.

Eastern Ukraine is part of Russia because their Empire conquered it militarily and he didn't understood why soviet leaders "gave" that part back to Ukraine.

He is just correcting "historical mistakes", to return to Russia the nations and territories that the Czars conquered ( same that with Crimea ).

( The Huffington Post ) Here's Why Putin Calling Eastern Ukraine 'Novorossiya' Is Important

"It's new Russia," Putin told the audience during his nearly four-hour long televised Q&A. "Kharkiv, Luhansk, Donetsk, Odessa were not part of Ukraine in czarist times, they were transferred in 1920. Why? God knows."

In the same fashion UK should ask back Ireland, India, and all the other colonies. Spain all South America but Brasil that would go to Portugal. Etc. If we must return to the colonialist geography.

Edited April 23, 2014 by MistyRonin

[ProfTournesol 956]

The historical mistake is Putin himself. This guy lives in XIXth century.

[Sgt.Spoetnik 10]

yeah well keep believing your beloved leaders then! and see how far that will take you! and i dont condemn or support Russia and putin but when you kick and pock the bear, be ready to get bitten! and how can the west support one chunta and blame Russia, while their trackrecord is even worser?! and Prof, how long will the French stay in mali? while your goverment fight these "terrorist" they support others that go fight in Syria! but be sure to vote for PS in the next election(or whatever party, dont matter)

Lets see if western backed and ordered yanuk will attack these city's in the east and we might see a bloodbath, on the hands off the EU,Nato,USSA .

[ProfTournesol 956]

and Prof, how long will the French stay in mali? while your goverment fight these "terrorist" they support others that go fight in Syria! but be sure to vote for PS in the next election(or whatever party, dont matter)

I'm sorry, but this doesn't make sense. France isn't supporting any terrorists in Syria, even if it does condemn Assad. Mali is another story, protecting Africa from Al Qaeda while other European countries are sleeping. But that's OT.

Edited April 23, 2014 by ProfTournesol

[Sgt.Spoetnik 10]

oh protecting mali, whatever floats your boat right.dont mention the colonial dreams off france in there , and they let muslim fighter go to Turkey or Jordan to go fight in syria on the sides off al-nusra and isil and only complain when they come back. And give support (logistic and or with arms) to these groups togheter with the rest off the EU and nato!

So you see my point where you attack one country in claiming its colonial and a agressor while france bombed and killed so many in africa.not to mention history cause that would only make it worser.

[arttem 1]

( The Huffington Post ) Here's Why Putin Calling Eastern Ukraine 'Novorossiya' Is Important

Original words (and i was listen all translation):

VLADIMIR PUTIN: Is there a possibility of Russia reaching a compromise with the US on Ukraine? A compromise should be reached by the various political forces in Ukraine, not third parties. This is actually the key issue here. We can only support and accompany this process. Regarding the question of what should come first: a constitutional referendum followed by elections, or elections first to stabilise the situation and then a referendum. The essential issue is how to ensure the legitimate rights and interests of ethnic Russians and Russian speakers in the southeast of Ukraine. I would like to remind you that what was called Novorossiya (New Russia) back in the tsarist days – Kharkov, Lugansk, Donetsk, Kherson, Nikolayev and Odessa – were not part of Ukraine back then. These territories were given to Ukraine in the 1920s by the Soviet government. Why? Who knows. They were won by Potyomkin and Catherine the Great in a series of well-known wars. The centre of that territory was Novorossiysk, so the region is called Novorossiya. Russia lost these territories for various reasons, but the people remained. Today, they live in Ukraine, and they should be full citizens of their country. That’s what this is all about. The issue is not whether the referendum on decentralisation or federalisation is followed by elections or the elections come before the architecture of the state is changed. The key issue is providing guarantees to these people. Our role is to facilitate a solution in Ukraine, to ensure that there are guarantees. People from southeast Ukraine will ask you, will ask us and the current authorities in Kiev: “Fine, the elections will be held on May 25, but do you want us to recognise their outcome? You’ll forget your promises the very next day and send new oligarchs to Donetsk, Kharkov, Lugansk, and so on. What about guarantees? We need answers.†I hope that an answer will be found.

Feel the difference? He is telling how Russian people appeared there. Novorosiysk was the center. So that part was called Novorossiya. He just explaining historical moments. But, no problems. I see, you guys like to play with words and history. As you wish. As you wish.

[spooky lynx 73]

So Russia is ordering a foreign country to withdraw its own troops for its own country eastern part, while Russian irregulars are creating troubles in the given country ? Is it Lavrov or Molotov ?

It is James Baker:)

I'm sorry, but this doesn't make sense. France isn't supporting any terrorists in Syria, even if it does condemn Assad. Mali is another story, protecting Africa from Al Qaeda while other European countries are sleeping. But that's OT.

Sure, helping various AQ-affiliated groups with air support against Libyan government protected Africa from Al Qaeda a lot... Especially in the case of spreading tons of weapons from former Libyan army stocks among those groups. Sorry for OT.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Sure, helping various AQ-affiliated groups with air support against Libyan government protected Africa from Al Qaeda a lot... Especially in the case of spreading tons of weapons from former Libyan army stocks among those groups. Sorry for OT.

Yeah, the same poor example again and again. You like it, don't you ? Shall we count how many Russian weapons are used in Syria on civilian population ? Who is calling 70% of the Syrian population terrorists ? For now, who is leading imperialist actions against its neighbours ?

[scrim 1]

yeah well keep believing your beloved leaders then! and see how far that will take you! and i dont condemn or support Russia and putin but when you kick and pock the bear, be ready to get bitten! and how can the west support one chunta and blame Russia, while their trackrecord is even worser?! and Prof, how long will the French stay in mali? while your goverment fight these "terrorist" they support others that go fight in Syria! but be sure to vote for PS in the next election(or whatever party, dont matter)

Lets see if western backed and ordered yanuk will attack these city's in the east and we might see a bloodbath, on the hands off the EU,Nato,USSA .

What's wrong with you? Poking and kicking the bear? How? Is that when the Ukrainians wanted a leader respecting their will and democracy? Or is it the more common notion, that NATO has done something wrong by allowing former WP states to join? In case you didn't notice, they joined NATO out of their own free will, to avoid being subjected to exactly what Russia is doing to Georgia and Ukraine now.

Don't lie. You blame the West for the deaths that would occurr should the legal Ukrainian government attempt to retake control of its own country. You are definitely supporting Putin.

[ProfTournesol 956]

You are definitely supporting Putin.

As most of the far right or nationalist movements across Europe.

[scrim 1]

But but but... Kiev = nazis? :rolleyes:

[Sgt.Spoetnik 10]

LOL, first off to scim-check my avatar?neither russian or eastern, living in the west with a open mind! second prof-http://www.theguardian.com/world/feedarticle/10427926

oh and know i am far right or national? i have a open mind,and i can see the bullsh*t around me. the so-called free west is nothing than looting thieving robbing f*cks that dont give a rats ass about you only their profits and agenda's, but keep believing their fairy-tales!

same for the East,South and every where else that takes profit over ppl!!

[mistyronin 1181]

Feel the difference? He is telling how Russian people appeared there. Novorosiysk was the center. So that part was called Novorossiya. He just explaining historical moments. But, no problems. I see, you guys like to play with words and history. As you wish. As you wish.

My dear, citing Novorossiya, and the historical moments that you said; IMO Putin is trying to back his actual politic movements.

Putin: [...] These territories were given to Ukraine in the 1920s by the Soviet government. Why? Who knows. They were won by Potyomkin and Catherine the Great in a series of well-known wars. [...]

Again, most of the Europe ex-Empires can use same historical explanations to claim that they have ethnic citizens in their former "won" colonial territories in a series of well known wars. For example Spain could claim all South America, Philippines, etc. UK Ireland ( got the independence 90 years ago, more or less when "Novorossiya" got back to Ukraine; or Finland btw ), India, the USA, Canada, Australia, etc.

But that doesn't change the fact that nowadays Eastern Ukraine and Crimea are parts of Ukraine. And that Russia doesn't have any legal right to rule over them ( the military "arguments" are another kind of fish ).

If you are so nice, could you tell me were I have played with words or history?

Edited April 23, 2014 by MistyRonin

[arttem 1]

My dear...

If you are so nice, could you tell me were I have played with words or history?

1. I'm not your dear, my dear.

2. Guys - plural.

3. Your quote from Huff?

"It's new Russia," Putin told the audience during his nearly four-hour long televised Q&A. "Kharkiv, Luhansk, Donetsk, Odessa were not part of Ukraine in czarist times, they were transferred in 1920. Why? God knows."

Where in original text you see words like new Russia? And many other things from Huff post?

[sudayev 27]

They are not Russians, they are traitors.

Is traitor some sort of nationality? Being a traitor to opposing side doesn't nullify your citizenship nor nationality, but nowadays many revisionists are using this argumentation handle things that aren't "white".

I'm not excited. I don't like when smbd play with history to get comfortable position. Do you remember with whom that cossacks was fighting in Warsaw? With communists? But you blame communists, so, for what purposes you show that photos to me?

Comfortable position? On what? Nevermind. What a question... Germans always preferred to use other nations hands to commit mass executions and such, first day of uprising 40k-50k civilian deaths http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wola_massacre

And what communists are you talking about, I didn't say a word about reds in context of cossacks involvement during Warsaw uprising. I didn't show you these photographs, I was showing them to Tonci87. Simply if it doesn't interest you - don't answer, but you the one how replied to these by saying what I said before - that was not Putins father in nazi uniform.

If you want to read more

http://www.feldgrau.com/rvol.html

http://axis101.bizland.com/CossackShields02.htm

http://histmag.org/Kozacka-rzez-Powstania-8257

[mistyronin 1181]

1. I'm not your dear, my dear.

2. Guys - plural.

3. Your quote from Huff?

Where in original text you see words like new Russia? And many other things from Huff post?

1. It's a formal / respectful way to refer to someone in English language ( usually used at the beginning of formal statements or letters ).

2. I was asking for me, the other related ones, can defend themselves.

3. My forum mate ( hope you like more this one ), my quote from the Huffington post is a copy paste of part of the first paragraph, you may check it yourself if you please.

To make things easier for you I will link the article again, and even quote the full first paragraph

A casual listener may have missed it, but many Ukraine-watchers raised their brow when Russian President Vladimir Putin used the weighty term "Novorossiya" or "New Russia" to refer to some regions in Ukraine on Thursday. "It's new Russia," Putin told the audience during his nearly four-hour long televised Q&A. "Kharkiv, Luhansk, Donetsk, Odessa were not part of Ukraine in czarist times, they were transferred in 1920. Why? God knows."

If you don't agree with the article from the Huffington Post you can say that they have played with words or history, but not me. I give you my promise that I'm not involved in any way with the redaction of that article, nor that website.

[arttem 1]

1. It's a formal / respectful way to refer to someone ( usually used at the beginning of formal statements or letters ).

2. I was asking for me, the other related ones, can defend themselves.

3. My forum mate ( hope you like more this one ), my quote from the Huffington post is a copy paste of part of the first paragraph, you check it yourself if you please.

To make things easier for you I will link the article again, and even quote the full first paragraph

If you don't agree with the article from the Huffington Post you can say that they have played with words or history, but not me. I give you my promise that I'm not involved in any way with the redaction of that article, nor that website.

Understood you Misty. Sry.