[SP] Pilgrimage

[ashencross 10]

Holy monkeys, it's Christmas! I'm excited about this update, will test that add-on tonight right away! Great job Rydygier :)

[pvt. partz 248]

Is it possible to incorporate weather adjustment to the UI at the beginning of the mission. I have been playing this mission for about 200 hours, 175 of which is cloudy and raining. I know you mention earlier that you set rain at 60 but the ARMA engine takes control after that. I finally took a break and playing a little 2 player coop mission last night and was amazed again at how stunning ARMA looks during a bright sunny day. I don't know if each player in Pilgrimage experiences completely ( random) weather but mine is much to gloomy. I would like to know if other are experiencing the same issue and what your votes would be about the amount of rain vs sunny days.

Thanks so much for listening

chik

[Rydygier 1304]

Are you using any mods, that possibly could alter the weather? TPW's? For me, as intended, except initial 30 minutes or so, weather is about 50% of clouds with light raining from time to time, but enough sun to make Altis bright place (overcast except the beginning is set to 51%). And rainbows are often... :) I'm using TPW's, but FOG component is turned off as I like weather, I set. In the future perhaps I'll try with dynamic weather by this addon.

There are several movies on youtube showing Pilgrimage gameplay, so you can see, what is typical weather for the others.

No plans for weather setting (and for any new setting to be exact).

BTW:

I have been playing this mission for about 200 hours

Wow! :)

Edited May 26, 2014 by Rydygier

[pvt. partz 248]

Hello

Here are the mods I use, (gonna try your suggestion of TPW,......not sure what it does,.....more realistic AI?)

Thanks chik

PS: I'm on my fourth go around !

[ashencross 10]

Hello Rydygier, been playing with the new update as well as the Incognito mod. First impression is great! I've not been able to find a UAV terminal nor the “mad†UGV so I haven't seen the “hack†option at work but, the rest of new features are damn fine!

Got a couple of opinions on the base Pilgrimage scenario now and another couple of observations regarding Incognito.

Pilgrimage:

Loving the “no 3D icons at all†setting. Immersion level goes up! Also, going about town and checking with every civilian I could find felt very life-like and dramatic. Like when you are really looking for someone in a crowd of strangers, I had to decide if I really wanted to go after every single one of them, to keep looking in the same town, or to move on based on gut instinct since there were no external hints.

That was reallycool, and at that point, I realized that an even more sure-fire way to find intel, instead of chasing down every single civilian, or going personally to every shrine (doable of course, but it would take a lot more time than I was willing to invest), it was to hunt down hostile team leaders, managing to make enemy soldiers surrender or even defeating warlords for circle intel. (I play with rare circle intel).

So even though I was playing with the Incognito mod, there was still incentive to gear up, find some firepower and take on an active combat role. Definitely no tourism here. That realization made me happy.

However, there was one issue. Maybe its no issue for more veteran Pilgrimage players, but personally I had never actually defeated a warlord, and though I stumbled into a stronghold once, I never actually engaged it because I wasn't ready for it at the time.

Then I remembered you mentioned strongholds were randomly placed on the map, on military facilities and the like? Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but there is a call that Alex receives that lists down coordinates for potential strongholds? Or was it locations for the “mad†UGV? In either case, and since I play in Hardcore mode, it takes a while before I get a radio. And even once you get it, you'd have to wait for the call to confirm if there was a hint regarding strongholds. So I came to these ideas:

-What do you think of having a choice to ask/bribe civilians to see if they reveal the location of a stronghold? Theoretically, there are higher chances for a local man to know of a large concentration of hostile forces in their region, than for them to actually know about the location of a specific dead body. So I was wondering if it would still work for you if civilians could give hints about the closest stronghold perhaps, as it would be like a source of information giving you the location of an even more powerful source of information.

-Then additionally, I thought, what if the radio intel offers such as “hostile activity†and “abandoned vehicle location†also gave you a choice from time to time to pay for stronghold coordinates? This would be rare of course. Rarer than vehicle locations and hot zones but there would be even more incentive to get a radio.

The greatest thing about Pilgrimage is it's how it allows the player to choose his path to achieve the final objective, and it just seemed that choosing between the “long but easier†path (visiting each shrine with total stealth), or the “shorter but dangerous†path (hunting down intel from hostile sources), and that is the most defining choice you get to make as the player.

The other thing is, since I was playing with all 3D icons off, it seems I don't get the 3D text the civilians use to show their opinion of you in the towns. :( Does it have to be 3D text for the civilians? Or could it just be text on screen so people who play with “all 3D icons off†doesn't miss it?

Incognito:

The experience I had playing with Incognito was generally great. It made driving around a civilian vehicle to travel quickly overland as a viable option. Before I just avoided vehicle travel and was constantly afraid of being “sniped†by AT soldiers from god knows where. And it never made it risk free at all. More than once I took the wrong turn, going too fast and not paying enough attention and ran into a patrol or checkpoint that promptly ended up in being discovered and shot to pieces (but at believable distances.)

The was -one- quirk that I experienced that I wish to report: I drove through a checkpoint, got exposed by the guards there, but before they opened fire, I dismounted the vehicle (it was a civilian vehicle, and I was completely unarmed). As soon as I got out of the car, I became incognito again. The guards somehow “lost track†of me, even though I dismounted right in front of them. Because I was rather baffled at the situation, just for giggles, I ran to their parked Ifrit, and boarded it. When I did -that- I got exposed again, but they did not fire. At least not right away. Once I ran over one of them, every single guard started to fire finally.

Just that one time, it was weird.

Additionally, may I offer a suggestion of the wording for Incognito notifications?

Since “incognito†is a state of being basically, you -are- incognito or -become- incognito, so phrasing it like this may be more accurate:

You act incognito now. ---> You are now incognito.

Incognito at risk. ---> Incognito status at risk.

You're observed. ---> You are being observed.

You've been exposed! ---> (No change needed, that was just right!)

Whoa, long post, sorry about that. Got carried away!

Cheers man, this last update was awesome. Thumbs way up.

[Rydygier 1304]

Here are the mods I use, (gonna try your suggestion of TPW,......not sure what it does,.....more realistic AI?)

:) You are using a mod not knowing, what it is doing? Not recommended. Well, it is doing several cool, but very different things. It is modular, each module you can switch via userconfig. One of these modules is FOG component, that eariler was adding foggy breath, but some time ago was expanded into weather dynamizer, and it is turned on by default, so most probably that's, what caused the problem. Not sure however, if is intended by TPW, so strongly dominant weather under its control should be cloudy and rainy, so you can inform TPW in his thread about that observation, if you care.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but there is a call that Alex receives that lists down coordinates for potential strongholds?

Yes.

-What do you think of having a choice to ask/bribe civilians to see if they reveal the location of a stronghold? Theoretically, there are higher chances for a local man to know of a large concentration of hostile forces in their region, than for them to actually know about the location of a specific dead body. So I was wondering if it would still work for you if civilians could give hints about the closest stronghold perhaps, as it would be like a source of information giving you the location of an even more powerful source of information.

That's fair point. I think, I'll add this. Of course it would be rare and perhaps only if you paid for the info and/or if you have good enough reputation. After all this is very valuable info, as in fact points the place, where you can find guaranteed circle intel. That's big deal. I'll think about.

-Then additionally, I thought, what if the radio intel offers such as “hostile activity†and “abandoned vehicle location†also gave you a choice from time to time to pay for stronghold coordinates? This would be rare of course. Rarer than vehicle locations and hot zones but there would be even more incentive to get a radio.

Even if rare - too much IMO. As said - it is kind of info that may dramatically shorten the gameplay if you go there and obtain guaranteed circle intel.

The other thing is, since I was playing with all 3D icons off, it seems I don't get the 3D text the civilians use to show their opinion of you in the towns. Does it have to be 3D text for the civilians?

Yes. I warned about that earlier to be sure, people want that. No one was oppose. Turning off all 3D icons means all. Including 3D comments. This setting just makes whole perframe loop used for 3D icons not run (some performance gain BTW). After all - that was an idea behind this, isn't? To not see, what you couldn't see with own eyes in RL for better immersion. You for sure can't see with own eyes people comments as floating text over their heads, isn't? I can add another setting removing everything but these comments, if you wish, no problem, just assumed, you meant it, when you said:

Not a big fan of seeing icons in my field of view that I'm not supposed to see with my own eyes

On screen text commenting your reputation may appear only rarely, if you play with AI mate(s), and when in town, he decide to comment locals' reactions on your presence. Also, if more than usual amount of people stops to watch you - you are famous. If they rather run from you than admire, well... in-famous then. :) But anyway, reputation is easy to predict, as rules are clear from user side. You are killing the civilians, even only few - bad, especially for local reputation. If you kill many badguys - good.

The was -one- quirk that I experienced that I wish to report: I drove through a checkpoint, got exposed by the guards there, but before they opened fire, I dismounted the vehicle (it was a civilian vehicle, and I was completely unarmed). As soon as I got out of the car, I became incognito again. The guards somehow “lost track†of me, even though I dismounted right in front of them. Because I was rather baffled at the situation, just for giggles, I ran to their parked Ifrit, and boarded it. When I did -that- I got exposed again, but they did not fire. At least not right away. Once I ran over one of them, every single guard started to fire finally.

OK, thanks. That's exactly kind of issues, I expected, may happen. I'll see, if anything can be done about that.

Additionally, may I offer a suggestion of the wording for Incognito notifications?

Anytime. Any language suggestions very appreciated.

Whoa, long post, sorry about that. Got carried away!

Thanks a lot for such valuable feedback. :)

Edited May 27, 2014 by Rydygier

[ashencross 10]

Hahah, this ended up being a funny situation:

You for sure can't see with own eyes people comments as floating text over their heads, isn't? I can add another setting removing everything but these comments, if you wish...

I think the issue is that I don't know what the comments are like, haha, are they spoken statements by the civilians? Or more like a notification of Alex's perception of the civilian's attitude toward him? (like Hostile/Angry/Friendly) I'm so curious now, later today I will try playing with 3D icons just to see how that works. If the civilian comments were "spoken words" that appear then disappear then it wouldn't affect immersion too much I think, since there is no voice acting, its normal in games for spoken text to pop up over characters I guess. It would be a simulation of aural information, instead of permanent visual cues :D But no need to hassle adding a parameter to show those 3D comments specifically really, maybe most people play with 3D icons enabled anyway? (Not sure whats the preferred play style on that).

Personally, these last few playthroughs with NO 3D icons at all worked great, and as you say, reputation is pretty intuitive. It would also make sense as you mentioned that higher reputation (and therefore trust) would "unlock" the ability to get stronghold location intel from civilians. Makes reputation a more important factor.

Do you have more "special missions" in mind to go along the reputation system? Or ways to increase or decrease your reputation in any given area?

[Rydygier 1304]

Yes, comments are statements of civilians displayed in 3D over their heads same way, as other 3D icons, just text, no marker, and only temporary.

Adding another option for 3D icons - "comments only" is no big deal, so I do that. Note, these comments aren't too often, especially, if reputation is near 0 and/or there is set low amount of civilians and/or big spread of them. Most comments are serious, but I allowed myself to add also few "easter eggs". Just, as I saw and loved in Fallout1&2. Also I'll still appreciate any ideas for more comments for all five reputation levels (very negative, negative, neutral, positive, very positive), both serious or funny.

Do you have more "special missions" in mind to go along the reputation system? Or ways to increase or decrease your reputation in any given area?

Not for Pilgrimage. But I plan to expand that features in the sequel. Secondary ways to change reputation is releasing captives, paying for the intel, completing HVT sidequests... But impact is minor for these, maybe except HVT.

Edited May 27, 2014 by Rydygier

[Rydygier 1304]

"Dev branch" updated to 1.82c beta1:

- new option for 3D icons setting to show only civilian sentences;

- possible intel about a stronghold location from the civilians;

- HVT map marker now also shows kind of target/target's vehicle for better recognition - useful if 3D icons are disabled.

Stronghold intel may point both actual stronghold or an airfield. It should be never often. Chances depends on reputation (below some reputation level is impossible to obtain such intel), if intel was paid (chances are 90% lower, if not) and how close strongholds are from given position. Pointed intel not necessarily is the closest one, but those are most probable.

[tortuosit 485]

I'm not using any weather dynamizer, so it is safe to play with any mod doing that.

The problem is, there is none. I really wanted to create a pbo from already made scripts which I have, but lost interest, because ArmA weather sucks in a way. Hey, who hasn't seen clouds in all directions, but rain + clear sky above the player...

[Rydygier 1304]

TPW's has weather component (FOG). I know also about at least one cool addon project, that should synchronize weather and daytime in game with real weather and daytime at given moment on real world counterparts of Stratis and Altis, but works on it seems suspended until Arma devs manage to fix A3's weather issues, not only those, you pointed. There are more serious issues from script side. Scripted weather control simply doesn't work, as should (mostly setOvercast command). And I did not heard nor read anything about any such plans from their side, they prefer to make another, new things, instead of fixing/perfecting existing features, or at least they prefer to speak about doing another things, so not sure if/when we may expect any improvement here.

[Alex72 1]

Nice update! Thanks Rydygier. :)

Btw, what does AC stand for? I understand its related to AI.

[Kommiekat 11]

Nice update! Thanks Rydygier. :)

Btw, what does AC stand for? I understand its related to AI.

Sorry, but I've got the same question. I don't know which it choose and why.

[ebarstad 18]

Nice update! Thanks Rydygier. :)

Btw, what does AC stand for? I understand its related to AI.

AC = ambient combat.

[Rydygier 1304]

Hmm. I though, it is clear. Good then, you asked, guys, so I know, I must explain.

Indeed. Ambient Combat does similar thing, like ACM did in A2, but it is set and fit for Pilgrimage. It dynamically spawns enemy AI groups widely around the player and also makes resistance and east hostile to each other (if disabled, by default, these sides are allied). Result is well described by AC's name and changes gameplay seriously (that's why it is disabled by default). You can at init switch it on or off, set intensity of it and choose, if it should be limited per area or infinite. Starting from 1.81c, intensity of generated around the player skirmish war, is dependent not only on intensity set at init, but also on the kind of area - the more urbanized area, the more figths, while far from the cities spotting ambient combat is rather unlikely, and mostly some fights between non-AC groups. As any such dynamic spawner it of course under reasonable circumstancies cleans the bodies, wrecks, leftovers etc. to avoid accumulating objects leading to performance drops and lags.

If someone would like to try it, but uncertain, what to set, I would recommend LOW (L), or MEDIUM (L), if more action near towns is desired. HIGH is pretty hardcore, still far from the towns player is relatively safe. L stands for "limited", so for each area is checked, how many groups was spawned around already. If too much - no more spawns will occur there - area is cleared permanently. Otherwise it is infinite.

Edited May 27, 2014 by Rydygier

[teoleo 2]

any help or tips for find a vehicle.??

[Rydygier 1304]

1. There are about 50 empty vehicles randomly placed on map.

2. All should be placed near roads, if there is enough flat∅ space.

So best chance to find an empty vehicle you should get in the flat areas out of the towns, where road network is dense. Possible tactic: obtain some optics, climb on the some hill with good, wide view on such area and "scan horizon" with your optics looking for vehicles. Or just travel along the roads across such or any areas. Nothing more I can tell, as positions of these vehicles are randomized each play.

Apart from that you can also immobilize an enemy vehicle to make crew dismount, kill the crew, take immobilized vehicle and repair via "Inspect" action.

Edited May 27, 2014 by Rydygier

[teoleo 2]

thk.... ;O)

[Rydygier 1304]

About INCOGNITO...

The was -one- quirk that I experienced that I wish to report: I drove through a checkpoint, got exposed by the guards there, but before they opened fire, I dismounted the vehicle (it was a civilian vehicle, and I was completely unarmed). As soon as I got out of the car, I became incognito again. The guards somehow “lost track†of me, even though I dismounted right in front of them.

Did some tests. Apparently even if close enemy has full knowledge about your current vehicle, he has no any knowledge about you. This stays same for some time, if you dismount. Don't know, if this is intended, or AI issue, but this may give in result effects like AI shooting at empty vehicle or ignoring dismounted unit. For now used enemy's knowledge about assigned vehicle of unit in such case to determine, if unit is exposed. Also redesigned code structure. Tommorow some more tests and soon new alpha version...

[tortuosit 485]

TPW's has weather component (FOG). I know also about at least one cool addon project, that should synchronize weather and daytime in game with real weather and daytime at given moment on real world counterparts of Stratis and Altis, but works on it seems suspended until Arma devs manage to fix A3's weather issues, not only those, you pointed. There are more serious issues from script side. Scripted weather control simply doesn't work, as should (mostly setOvercast command). And I did not heard nor read anything about any such plans from their side, they prefer to make another, new things, instead of fixing/perfecting existing features, or at least they prefer to speak about doing another things, so not sure if/when we may expect any improvement here.

Yeah. I've put my old script into your mission and after a few first tests it looks good. Will need to strip it down pretty much and take out a lot of stuff, because finally weather turned out not to be as flexible as I hoped. But your mission is for playing over hours, so the engines slow weather transitions are OK. I wasn't aware of the new forceWeatherChange command which seems to help with applying weather immediately and, maybe, resets the weather cycle timer. Still I see a bit of blue sky sometimes above player at high overcast levels. This seems to be almost fixed if you use highest cloud settings... I like your mission with bad and harsh weather at startup. It adds to the immersion and the feeling of being alone... The script has 2 parameters, one for initial weather ("clear/good/cloudy/cloudy+/bad/rnd") and one for the direction where weather goes ("better/worse/keep/directional/rnd"). Can be called via execvm. But one more endless loop.

[Rydygier 1304]

forceWeatherChange

Although probably effective, immediate weather change without smooth transitions is rarely desired. IIRC what is most broken is exactly such smooth transition time for setOvercast command (so people are using skipTime as workaround, but this seems to generate another problems). Unless it was fixed lately...

[Rydygier 1304]

Uploded version alpha2 of INCOGNITO addon. Link now under "Recommended addons" in the first post. Still experimental of course.

[tortuosit 485]

Will use the incognito now.

Although probably effective, immediate weather change without smooth transitions is rarely desired. IIRC what is most broken is exactly such smooth transition time for setOvercast command (so people are using skipTime as workaround, but this seems to generate another problems). Unless it was fixed lately...

Yes of course - forceWeatherChange helps at weather init. Not using it in the perma loop. Yeah we use skiptime and ugly stuff for init weather change:

skiptime -24;
86400 setOvercast forecastOvercast;
86400 setFog [forecastFog, 0.01, 0];
86400 setRain forecastRain;
86400 setWindStr forecastWindStr;
86400 setWindForce forecastWindForce;
86400 setWindDir forecastWindDir;
skipTime 24;
ForceWeatherChange;
simulWeatherSync;

---------- Post added at 14:06 ---------- Previous post was at 12:30 ----------

I don't know if each player in Pilgrimage experiences completely ( random) weather but mine is much to gloomy. I would like to know if other are experiencing the same issue and what your votes would be about the amount of rain vs sunny days.

I personally love the extreme bad weather setting with overcast level close to 100%. Currently I'm playing with extreme bad weather at start followed by random weather, but still have to see if ArmA does the transitions right. BTW dark nights with high overcast level cannot be played without NV Goggles.

[Rydygier 1304]

Today played several hours using INCOGNITO alpha2. Very nice, and significant change so far, I must say. Did not saw any new issues yet.

[ashencross 10]

Today played several hours using INCOGNITO alpha2. Very nice, and significant change so far, I must say. Did not saw any new issues yet.

Wow, awesome news, can't wait to get home and give it a spin. Guessing the restructuring of code you made fixed the issue with AIs losing track of you when you dismount an exposed vehicle?

Also, been seeing all this talk about weather. I must say I quite like it when the weather gets all gloomy and dark in Pilgrimage. XD I had a session where I ended up running in absolute darkness through a forest, no flashlight, no NVG, no NV scopes, EXCEPT a rangefinder (that has a convenient NV function). Switching from time to time to the rangefinder to find my way through the wilderness with shots heard in the distance .... great experience! :D

:: Keep up the good work man!