Why no american units?

[miles teg 1]

I don't know if it's just because of the fallout from the anti-Americanism going on in Europe now, but it seems that now hardly anybody wants to make any U.S. forces unit addons anymore and generally only make U.S. weapons if European forces use them. I guess that's to be expected since most addon makers are European and want to make addons for their home country, but it sucks that initially there were a bunch of retextured American units like for the 82nd Airborne, Army Rangers, Green Berets, ect... but they were all (with the exception of the SEB Delta Force addon) kinda boring and not really anything new. Now I see a bunch of awesome new units like the glorious looking units in the HK pack and the BW mods, but sadly I can't use them because I know nothing about the German Army, their modern history, ect... and can't really use them in my missions, even sadder still I can't even use their weapons in missions with U.S. units because none of them (with the exception of the OICW and MP5's) are used by the U.S.. But sadly the HK pack is all one big .pbo file and I can't justify 20+megs of addon just for one or two weapons (plus OFP already has a MP5).

I would really wish someone would make some really nice new U.S. units such as some Army Ranger units outfitted in the uniform used in Afghanistan and with the same equipment used over there. It would also be nice to see some with headset radios like seen on the units in the BW and HK mods, along with large ruck sacks or maybe U.S. Army Security forces like those that guard the President of Afghanistan.

These units could also be slightly modified as well to simulate 82nd Airborne, & 10th Mnt. Division infantry. Then there are tons of other cool special ops units like Green Berets, Navy SEALs, Marines in desert fatigues (would be cool to have some with beanie caps, or some SF troops with arab style head scarves like some of the units in the HK mod).

Hmm...Just thought of something. Some Afghan Northern Alliance & Taliban units would also be very cool, not to mention maybe some new Russian units. The big "egghead" helments used by the police forces in the HK Mod are actually very similar to those used in the past by Russian Spetsnaz and OMON troops. I hope someone makes a Russian addon based on those units (but without the face shield).

Anyhoo... I can understand you all wanting to represent your countries and all, but it would be nice to be able to recreate alot of American battles such as Operation Anaconda, the Grenada invasion or the Beiruit invasion.

So far the only addon like this has been Frandsen's U.S. Marine Corp addon which is an OUTSTANDING addon that I have been having tons of fun with and making missions for (just waiting for a finished CH-53 and a LAV).

Anyhoo, I hope that at least someone makes a nice Army Ranger or 82nd Airborne addon (other then just retextured models) to use with Adammo's wonderful C130.

Max Res to all you addon makers!

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[ran 0]

there are more europeans playing this game than americans . don't be surprised if the number of addon representing european units and material is that big

[N.o.R.S.u 0]

/edit (I should learn to read )

I would like to see some high quality east units like modern SpetzNaz, they would go well with all east weapons recently released.

[Rhubarbman 0]

The fact is there is no Normal US inf troops i wanna d/l except for the marines, i want soem skinned to the level of what UCE did to his russian units.

[Rhubarbman 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N.o.R.S.u @ Sep. 08 2002,19:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">/edit (I should learn to read )

I would like to see some high quality east units like modern SpetzNaz, they would go well with all east weapons recently released.<span id='postcolor'>

ever used UCS's?

[Paratrooper 0]

The fact is that the game is full of American units, people want to make new things rather than just improve on the American units. Or so I assume.

Bibmi is making some new American units by the way. Have a look at the OFPEC Forums they are looking very good.

[CrunchyFrog 0]

I also like some really modern high quality US troops, with all the US equiptment in one package.

for example a  75th ranger pack with M249, M40/M24, M82A1,  M16/M4 with various attachments... All ofcourse O2 made.

And for the russians, also more modern equiptment.

AK(S)-74M, AN-94, AKS-74U, RPK(S)-74M, BIZON-2, SV-98.

And I live in Denmark, and whould rather have US troops than Danish...! Because Denmark doesnt really have any "Combat experience", but USA has operations all over the world.

And lets not forget what addons are all about... To be USED in MISSONS... Alot of people tend to forget that.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I don't know if it's just because of the fallout from the anti-Americanism going on in Europe now, but it seems that now hardly anybody wants to make any U.S. forces unit addons anymore and generally only make U.S. weapons if European forces use them. I guess that's to be expected since most addon makers are European and want to make addons for their home country, but it sucks that initially there were a bunch of retextured American units like for the 82nd Airborne, Army Rangers, Green Berets, ect... but they were all (with the exception of the SEB Delta Force addon) kinda boring and not really anything new. Now I see a bunch of awesome new units like the glorious looking units in the HK pack and the BW mods, but sadly I can't use them because I know nothing about the German Army, their modern history, ect... and can't really use them in my missions, even sadder still I can't even use their weapons in missions with U.S. units because none of them (with the exception of the OICW and MP5's) are used by the U.S.. <span id='postcolor'>

Just as ran said, it is because the majority of OFP players and modmakers are Europeans. Just as you don't care for German units, they don't care about the American units. Tough luck, but that is the way it is

I would personally prefer units with no national/unit markings at all - so that you can mix units from different addon-makers. I am perfectly aware that the uniforms are different in different countries, but I can live with that

[Cloney 0]

Miles: I completely Agree with you. If we could get some cool Afghanistan units I'd be a happy man. I mean, not just the current units reskinned into 3 Color Desert BDUs. The uniforms and equipment those Marines wore into Afghanistan were just took cool. I wanted them for OFP really badly but no luck. Maybe someone could redo the M16A2s and Add a SAW and M16A4s (Marksman M16s with Full Auto, Scopes and a Flat-Top Reciever). Maybe even some M136s and Predator Launchers.

If we were REALLY lucky, we could have LAVs, Hummers, CH-53s, Sea Knights, UH-1N Hueys.

Here is my WISH LIST:

Afghanistan Pack 1.0

Infantry:

US Marine Infantry

-Standard Marine Infantry, Vests, Helmets (with camoflage netting), All newly modeled Web Equipment

-Army 101st Infantry (Similar to USMC Infantry but with a different LBV Configuration

-Embassy Units (USMC). Lightly Armed, Vests, Beanie Hats or Boonie Hats.

-Special Forces

-USAF Parajumpers

-SEALs

-Aghanistan Army Infantry - (Resistance Side, Armed with AKs)

-Taliban Infantry

-Al Queda Mercenary

Weapons:

-Remodeled M-16A2

-Remodeled M4 w/ Scopes and such

-M249 SAW

-M136

-Afghan Weapons (AK47, Yadda Yadda)

I Think Infantry Would be more important than armored units.

I've also been thinking long and hard about making a Mountain/Desert Combat map for Afganistan type missions. I don't know much about WRPedit but i'm willing to try it out. What do you guys think?

-

[Kamko 0]

If you haven't noticed, ofp is full of us units and weapons, so a small change wouldnt do anything bad. Moreover there are hudreds of american untis/weapons/vechicles avaiable.

[VXR 9]

well working on the helicopters AH1W and the UH1N and soon the CH46 and soon maybe armor

[edc 0]

I'm American, and I would love to see more US stuff.  The HK pack, though adds many, many, new weapons, and is certainly worth downloading where ever your from.

[miles teg 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (CrunchyFrog @ Sep. 08 2002,20:06)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I also like some really modern high quality US troops, with all the US equiptment in one package.

for example a  75th ranger pack with M249, M40/M24, M82A1,  M16/M4 with various attachments... All ofcourse O2 made.

And for the russians, also more modern equiptment.

AK(S)-74M, AN-94, AKS-74U, RPK(S)-74M, BIZON-2, SV-98.

And I live in Denmark, and whould rather have US troops than Danish...! Because Denmark doesnt really have any "Combat experience", but USA has operations all over the world.

And lets not forget what addons are all about... To be USED in MISSONS... Alot of people tend to forget that.<span id='postcolor'>

Bingo! You really nailed it on the head Crunchy Frog. You're absolutely right. These addons are meant to be used for missions. While fantasy missions could be made such as West German forces against East German & Russian troops (like at the height of the Cold War), or German peacekeepers against Serbian forces in the former Yugoslav republics, there really isn't any large scale combat that German forces have seen outside of a some peacekeeping. However with the WWII unit/weapon packs (which include German Nazi soldiers), I've love using the German soldiers because they work wonderfully in WWII missions, have terrific sound effects and voices in German when they get hit, and I even enjoy from time to time playing on the German side to feel what it's like defending a beach with a MG-42 for example or to see the sky full of U.S. paratroopers coming down and feel the terror.

Now, if the HK MOD had taken off the little flag patch on the soldier's uniforms, and the "Polizie" word on the uniforms, then it would have opened up a lot more posibilities because then the unit addons could be used for a lot more missions for many different countries (not just the U.S.). They should have made those units part of the BW MOD, and then release a international version without the flags and letters on the units. For example the HK MOD troops with the headscarves could easily serve as U.S. SF soldiers (if outfitted with M4's),British SAS soldiers (also with M4's,M203's or M16A2's), or even IDF soldiers. Troops for a particular nation are cool if they are for a MOD for a particular nation, but if an addon maker wants them to be used in a lot of missions then they should make them either for nations that are involved in alot of

combat (like the U.S. and Russia), for a particular war MOD (Vietnam, Falklands, WWII, ect..) or general purpose MODs that can be used to represent the units, equipment, or vehicles used by the military forces of many nations.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[miles teg 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (edc @ Sep. 08 2002,20:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'm American, and I would love to see more US stuff.  The HK pack, though adds many, many, new weapons, and is certainly worth downloading where ever your from.<span id='postcolor'>

Yeah, the weapons are cool, but if you're like me and you are an addon junkie and already have two OFP:R's on your system for different mods and STILL are running out of memory due to all the addons, then you have to weigh the HK addon against other addons that you're more likely to use during a mission (BIS needs to make an update patch for better addon management). I agree that it's a wonderful addon with super cool weapons, but just exactly what kind of mission are you going to make with those weapons? If you're not into realism and more into blasting stuff, then yeah you can make a mission where that's all you do and to heck with historical realism, but if you want it to be realistic, then that means using the appropriate addon soldiers with the weapons and making a mission that suits the mission of those soldiers. But unless you're familiar with European military and police forces that's a bit difficult to do a good job at it. So sadly I'm going to miss blasting all those great HK weapons (I really loved their MG-3 and OICW) in favor of other addons that I can actually use to make realistic missions with. For example I'm using Adammo's C130 to redo my "Masters of War" mission which also uses the SEB Delta Force addon that I modified to make into a U.S. Army Ranger addon, as well as the UCE Kuffiya infantry addon (also modified so they use Kegetys's RPG-7 addon) who act as Taliban infantry. The mission simulates the combat mission of U.S. ground troops against the Taliban which was a U.S Army Ranger nightime airborne assaut on a Taliban held airbase.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[ran 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Miles Teg @ Sep. 08 2002,21:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (CrunchyFrog @ Sep. 08 2002,20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I also like some really modern high quality US troops, with all the US equiptment in one package.

for example a  75th ranger pack with M249, M40/M24, M82A1,  M16/M4 with various attachments... All ofcourse O2 made.

And for the russians, also more modern equiptment.

AK(S)-74M, AN-94, AKS-74U, RPK(S)-74M, BIZON-2, SV-98.

And I live in Denmark, and whould rather have US troops than Danish...! Because Denmark doesnt really have any "Combat experience", but USA has operations all over the world.

And lets not forget what addons are all about... To be USED in MISSONS... Alot of people tend to forget that.<span id='postcolor'>

Bingo!  You really nailed it on the head Crunchy Frog.  You're absolutely right.  These addons are meant to be used for missions.  While fantasy missions could be made such as West German forces against East German & Russian troops (like at the height of the Cold War), or German peacekeepers against Serbian forces in the former Yugoslav republics, there really isn't any large scale combat that German forces have seen outside of a some peacekeeping.  However with the WWII unit/weapon packs (which include German Nazi soldiers), I've love using the German soldiers because they work wonderfully in WWII missions, have terrific sound effects and voices in German when they get hit, and I even enjoy from time to time playing on the German side to feel what it's like defending a beach with a MG-42 for example or to see the sky full of U.S. paratroopers coming down and feel the terror.  <!--emo&  

Now, if the HK MOD had taken off the little flag patch on the soldier's uniforms, and the "Polizie" word on the uniforms, then it would have opened up a lot more posibilities because then the unit addons could be used for a lot more missions for many different countries (not just the U.S.).   They should have made those units part of the BW MOD, and then release a international version without the flags and letters on the units.  For example the HK MOD troops with the headscarves could easily serve as U.S. SF soldiers (if outfitted with M4's),British SAS soldiers (also with M4's,M203's or M16A2's), or even IDF soldiers.  Troops for a particular nation are cool if they are for a MOD for a particular nation, but if an addon maker wants them to be used in a lot of missions then they should make them either for nations that are involved in alot of

combat (like the U.S. and Russia), for a particular war MOD (Vietnam, Falklands, WWII, ect..) or general purpose MODs that can be used to represent the units, equipment, or vehicles used by the military forces of many nations.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD><span id='postcolor'>

they should have done that , they should have done this

modmaker do what THEY like

and no , it's the hk pack , HK is originary from germany , so is the author of the addon , he intended to make german units , so these units will stay with german marks , and if you aren't happy , you can still remove the arm patch and some detail textures yourself

edit :

and it's easy to say : this should have been done , that too etc ....

and for what you said about the hk pack , it adds the following weapons wich can be used by us units can use almost every weapons in the pack (except g3X familly and mg3)

and finally , if you don't like the armpatch of an addon , then why bother downloading it ?

and , a mission scenario doesn't have obligaterly to be based on reality

and , have you seen the east units which come with the hk pack ? fundamentalists , terrorists and mafia killers , what to ask more ? and if the loadouts of all the units present in ofp don't please you , up to you to change them damn , the modmakers can't do everything under your nose

[miles teg 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Sep. 08 2002,20:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Just as ran said, it is because the majority of OFP players and modmakers are Europeans. Just as you don't care for German units, they don't care about the American units. Tough luck, but that is the way it is

I would personally prefer units with no national/unit markings at all - so that you can mix units from different addon-makers. I am perfectly aware that the uniforms are different in different countries, but I can live with that <span id='postcolor'>

Yes I can live with different uniforms also with no patches, and yes I am entirely aware that most of the addon makers are European. That's why I mentioned it.

I agree, that non-national units are perfectly fine for all kinds of missions. At least that way they can simulate for example U.S. Special Operations forces, IDF units, terrorist units, British units, or whatever country's infantry forces that they look similar to.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[ran 0]

and be happy that actually the original ofp units were based on US units and materials

now quit whinning

[miles teg 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ran @ Sep. 08 2002,22<!--emo&)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">they should have done that , they should have done this

modmaker do what THEY like

and no , it's the hk pack , HK is originary from germany , so is the author of the addon , he intended to make german units , so these units will stay with german marks , and if you aren't happy , you can still remove the arm patch and some detail textures yourself.  

 

edit :

and it's easy to say : this should have been done , that too etc ....

and for what you said about the hk pack , it adds the following weapons wich can be used by us units can use almost every weapons in the pack (except g3X familly and mg3)

and finally , if you don't like the armpatch of an addon , then why bother downloading it ?

and , a mission scenario doesn't have obligaterly to be based on reality

and , have you seen the east units which come with the hk pack ? fundamentalists , terrorists and mafia killers , what to ask more ? and if the loadouts of all the units present in ofp don't please you , up to you to change them damn , the modmakers can't do everything under your nose

<span id='postcolor'>

I'm not sure why you're getting upset Ran.   I'm not telling them what to do.  I'm just stating my opinion on what would have been most useful for the OFP community as a whole.

Certainly they can make whatever they want.  But there are many countries that use HK weapons.

Also I tried once to modify textures on an addon, read the tutorials, ect... and could not figure out how to properly map the textures in the spots that I wanted them.  Maybe I'm an idiot or don't have the patience, but right now I'm a graduate student and barely have time as it is to make missions and certainly don't have time to spend hours redoing textures.

Perhaps if I had Oxygen it would be easier to re-texture them.

But hopefully people who have more time will indeed do exactly this.  Of coarse they'll have to ask the MOD makers permission and give proper credit and all that.  

Also I answered why I don't change them myself.  Also exactly which weapons can be used by U.S. military forces other then the OICW and MP5?  

And yes I  ALWAYS try to make realistic missions because quite frankly I hate unrealistic missions.  

As for why I downloaded the pack, I failed to noticed the German flag patch on the pics and didn't realize that it was a German Army MOD.  My mistake.  It's still a wonderful MOD just not real useful to those of us who enjoy making realistic missions based on U.S. military battles.

Anyways, no reason to get upset and I'm sorry if I said anything that upset anyone.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[miles teg 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ran @ Sep. 08 2002,22:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">and be happy that actually the original ofp units were based on US units and materials

now quit whinning<span id='postcolor'>

I am indeed very happy that the original game was based on U.S. and Russian units. But there was a reason for that. How many Europeans would have bought the game if it was based on a Germany cold war scenario with entirely German units against East German and Soviet units? I think BIS made a good choice using American units for the West side and putting the scenario in a European enviornment. I'm also sorry if I give the perception that I'm just complaining. What I'm trying to do is just give some recommendations for future units that might be useful in a wider variety of realistic combat missions for OFP.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[ran 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Miles Teg @ Sep. 08 2002,22:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'm not telling them what to do.  I'm just stating my opinion on what would have been most useful for the OFP community as a whole.<span id='postcolor'>

i'm one of "them" first

second : who are you to say what is good for the communauty and what isn't ? no offense

but the communauty members do what they want of the communauty , and if one day some modmakers apply your ideas , then good , but do not start to talk about existing materials in that way

what you do would be like whining about a book because the characters in it are too well described

marks and uniform are apart of the armies

armies participate to wars

ofp is a warsimulation

right now , the realism of the marks is one of the few realism points we can change on an addon in ofp

and if the fact of having nationality marks disturbs you sooo much , what do you think of the big flashy red blue and white flag on the normal's soldiers shoulders ?

[N.o.R.S.u 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Rhubarbman @ Sep. 08 2002,19:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N.o.R.S.u @ Sep. 08 2002,19:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">/edit (I should learn to read )

I would like to see some high quality east units like modern SpetzNaz, they would go well with all east weapons recently released.<span id='postcolor'>

ever used UCS's?<span id='postcolor'>

Of course I have, but I mean O2 made soldiers. UCE's are good but I would like to see somekind of Chechnya SpetzNaz pack for east, look at Chechnya pictures and you'll see what I mean.

[miles teg 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ran @ Sep. 08 2002,22:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">i'm one of "them" first

second : who are you to say what is good for the communauty and what isn't ? no offense

but the communauty members do what they want of the communauty , and if one day some modmakers apply your ideas , then good , but do not start to talk about existing materials in that way

what you do would be like whining about a book because the characters in it are too well described

marks and uniform are apart of the armies

armies participate to wars

ofp is a warsimulation

right now , the realism of the marks is one of the few realism points we can change on an addon in ofp

and if the fact of having nationality marks disturbs you sooo much , what do you think of the big flashy red blue and white flag on the normal's soldiers shoulders ?<span id='postcolor'>

Yes Ran I know you are a mod maker and I respect your abilities. Also I guess I'm speaking more for those mission makers who like making realistic missions.

You are absolutely right about realism and the arm patches being one item that can be modified realistically. As for the American flags on the soldiers, yes they are there, however to BIS's credit they also included Resistance troops that can be used to simulate any country you want. Same with the Black Ops soldiers. No flags on those guys which is why I often use them to simulate SAS commandos.

Also addon making is not quite the same as writing a book.

It is more like writing about several characters loosely related, but with no story line in which to put them in. I'm not saying it was wrong of them to make German units. That's great that they're doing that for their fellow German OFP players.

But it sure would be nice if they could make an international versions as well. But oh well. If they don't want to then that's cool with me. I just have to be patient and hope that other skilled addon makers in some of the other MOD teams will make some good American or multi-purpose addons.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[PFC_Mike 2]

I agree, just about every little country has units reskinned for it. How many people use Libyan/Pakistani/Ukrainian troops or (lol) special forces in their missions?

Bundeswehr and UK Army troops are far more justifiable from a standpoint of who-sees-action. But really, more US troops make the most sense from a playability standpoint.

Regarding an Afghanistan mod, is there a way to cpp-tweak US troops to need multiple torso shots for a takedown? The new body armor they are using is supposed to be excellent, saving dozens of lives. Also, most Taliban-Al Qaida forces would need to be pretty low-skilled, and without medics.

Another thing you'd need would be destroyed Soviet hardware littering the landscape. And some of the sweet super-heavy AA mg's. They are maybe 15, 20 mm.

[miles teg 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PFC_Mike @ Sep. 08 2002,22:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I agree, just about every little country has units reskinned for it. How many people use Libyan/Pakistani/Ukrainian troops or (lol) special forces in their missions?

Bundeswehr and UK Army troops are far more justifiable from a standpoint of who-sees-action. But really, more US troops make the most sense from a playability standpoint.

Regarding an Afghanistan mod, is there a way to cpp-tweak US troops to need multiple torso shots for a takedown? The new body armor they are using is supposed to be excellent, saving dozens of lives. Also, most Taliban-Al Qaida forces would need to be pretty low-skilled, and without medics.

Another thing you'd need would be destroyed Soviet hardware littering the landscape. And some of the sweet super-heavy AA mg's. They are maybe 15, 20 mm.<span id='postcolor'>

Amen! Yeah it would be nice to see wreckages of T-55's and BMP-1 covering some areas. I guess you could do that using the "setdammage" command to destroy them at the beginning but then you'd get a bunch of explosions at the beginning of the mission unless you wrote a script to fade in the volume slowly. Likewise I've been waiting a long time for a DShK heavy machine gun (widely used by Afghan forces on both sides). A ZSU-23-2 would also be nice (double-barreled towed 23mm AA gun). Actually one MOD group was making one, but I'm not sure what became of it. I just hope they don't lump it with other addons into a single .pbo file like the HK mod did. I like how Kegetys kept each weapon as a seperate .pbo file, that way if the mission doesn't need his AK-103's for example and only his RPG-7 it can be ZIPed with a mission so that that players don't have to go searching on the net for it and it keeps the size of the ZIP file nice and small....something very important if you don't have the luxury of a high-bandwidth web host.

There is a way to simulate body armor (by increasing the armor level of soldiers, but unfortunately I think it applies to all parts of their body. I don't think you can make just their torso be more resistant to dammage unless there is some way to do it in Oxygen that I'm not aware of. Still it would be more realistic I think if it took maybe 4 rounds to kill the U.S. troops with heavy body armor.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[drewb99 0]

Armor values can be set to individual body areas like the head, torso ect. by using different .ccp commands.