AMD Mantle Support possible?

[sancron 32]

Hi guys,

i would ask, what Bohemia think about Mantel, and maybe Support it in Arma 3. Since there are many rumors about this and some upcoming and already released Games will Support it, it would be great if Arma 3 will also Support it maybe in Future. Since it will increase the Performance. For more informations about Mantel: http://www.amd.com/us/products/technologies/mantle/pages/mantle.aspx

[DaRkL3AD3R 1]

As much as I'd love to see the support for it, I highly doubt it. These guys can't even bring their shadow rendering engine into the 21st century yet, let alone add a whole new API to their game.

[nuxil 2]

When hell freezes over, we might get mantle.

bis is a small companie and i doubt they have the resources to take on such a task.

Edited January 9, 2014 by nuxil

[calin_banc 19]

Lol, it's quite easy to implement -

. That guy, by himself implemented the API into their engine in 2 months. 1 man, 2 months to get Mantle going in their engine. If you look around the web, the devs. are saying Mantle it's easier to use than DX, so not only you get a huge performance boost, but it's also easy to implement.

Will it get in the game? Probably not anytime soon, but that's because politics.

[nuxil 2]

Im all for Amd mantle. but we are not going to see it in arma3. maybe in rv 4.5/ rv5 but i still doubt it.

You can gain about X50 time better performance in drawcalls using it.

For thouse who are interested take a look at this link:

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/76653/star-citizen-pc-ps4-and-consoles#latest

I think Bis are to much of intel & nvidia fanboys to implement it, and i dont think they currently got the manpower to do this. "even if it just requires 1 man doing it for 2 months"

maybe with all the $$$ they got from dayz they can hire more developers and we will see it in the future. i dont think so but i hope so.

mantle looks like the future. but as we know, bis has a tendency to not keep up with new tech

[sancron 32]

It's a easy supply and demand question. When enough demand on this Topic is gained, it would be in the intrests of BI to implement it. But when only a few people aks about, the work has nor relation to the demand. Perosnally i think so, correct me if i be wrong.

[progamer 14]

It's a easy supply and demand question. When enough demand on this Topic is gained, it would be in the intrests of BI to implement it. But when only a few people aks about, the work has nor relation to the demand. Perosnally i think so, correct me if i be wrong.

This is exactly the same as people asking for the Physx to be offloaded to their Nvidia cards. BI hasn't shown interest in doing things for one specific card company yet.

[sancron 32]

So nVidia is also able to support the Mantel API, it's not like PhysX which will run better when you have a nVidia Card to compute this.

PhysX is can be computed by CPU but has his full potential only on nVidia Cards. AMD Mantel can also be also computed by nVidia Cards if the will provide the Support, there is no limitaion.

[[frl]myke 14]

Thread title fixed. I know i'm nitpicking but it is called mantle. ;)

[Fushko 59]

So nVidia is also able to support the Mantel API, it's not like PhysX which will run better when you have a nVidia Card to compute this.

PhysX is can be computed by CPU but has his full potential only on nVidia Cards. AMD Mantel can also be also computed by nVidia Cards if the will provide the Support, there is no limitaion.

PhysX (Physics engine, used by A3) can ONLY be computed by the CPU and doesn't have anything to do with nvidia cards. This is why you can run the game with an ATI card. (an upcoming tech to PhysX called Flex will be calculated by the GPU though, but the developer has said that in the future it will most likely be possible to make it run on the CPU too.)

What you mean is APEX (GPU accelerated particles) which only runs on nvidia cards (calculated by the GPU and not the CPU). Fact is that APEX cannot run complex physics calculations like PhysX does.

Flex video

Myke;2595361']Thread title fixed. I know i'm nitpicking but it is called mantle. ;)

Thank you that was making me cringe.

[sancron 32]

I know that the PhysX feature of Arma 3 is powered by CPU not by GPU, but nVidia has a exklusiv acceleration on GPU when supported by the Game like in the Batman Game Series. But you can also play PhysX enabled games that needs a nVidia Card without a nVidia Card, then most only the features are not visible, like some Smoke or the Cape animations (In Batman Series) i think this is then FLEX.

But AMD already says, that Mantle isn't bound to AMD Graphics, nVidia will also be able to use ist. But only the HD7000+ Cards will Support it for now. But Mantle and PhysX are not the same.

Mantle is a low-level API specification developed by AMD as an alternative to Direct3D and OpenGL, primarily for use on the PC platform.[2] Currently the only implementation is for graphics processing units with AMD's Graphics Core Next architecture,[3] although there is speculation other GPU vendors such as NVidia and Intel might be able to implement it in future.[2] Mantle was created to allow games and applications to utilize the GPU more efficiently, and have much faster draw calls, and makes game development much easier by nearly eliminating hardware abstraction.

[PuFu 4600]

This is exactly the same as people asking for the Physx to be offloaded to their Nvidia cards. BI hasn't shown interest in doing things for one specific card company yet.

dude, do some fucking research...like before posting anything else...like ever...

[gossamersolid 155]

Until we actually see real people doing real benchmark comparisons, Mantle's claimed performance gains mean nothing.

I watched a video yesterday the AMD rep claimed "Up to 45% performance increase!", yet he failed to list specs and what the previous framerate was running off of DX.

It's all a bunch of marketing bullshit until there is proof of how good it is.

[nuxil 2]

It's all a bunch of marketing bullshit until there is proof of how good it is.

google a bit. read some dev blogs about it.

More and more companies are starting to utilize mantle, you will see more of it in the future.

here is a nice talk about it. tho its not a dx vs mantle performance video. it talks about current issues with dx and other stuff in general..

Edited January 10, 2014 by nuxil

[calin_banc 19]

To be honest, if it's that easy to implement, there isn't any REAL reason not to do it. It's minimum effort with maximum benefits. And please don't come with "oh, but there is small demographic" argument again. It's false! There are currently 2 generations of video cards that can run it, all the next ones from AMD will run it, probably nVIDIA will run it as well.

I repeat, the Oxide buddy made their Direct 3D engine work on Mantle in about 2 months, by ONE man. Alos, take a look here for real world performance demo -

[nuxil 2]

hey. that was my link :p

let it also be said that there is already over 20+ game titles in development that will support mantle according to

[NeMeSiS 11]

Alos, take a look here for real world performance demo -

If it was a real world performance demo i would be able to run it on my PC myself, and it would have a directX equivalent for comparison.

nVidia will also be able to use ist.

Able to use != will use.

Mantle may be great, but all ive seen so far is pretty much AMD marketing spam, so lets not get all hyped up.

[Furret 0]

To be honest, if it's that easy to implement, there isn't any REAL reason not to do it. It's minimum effort with maximum benefits. And please don't come with "oh, but there is small demographic" argument again. It's false! There are currently 2 generations of video cards that can run it, all the next ones from AMD will run it, probably nVIDIA will run it as well.

I repeat, the Oxide buddy made their Direct 3D engine work on Mantle in about 2 months, by ONE man. Alos, take a look here for real world performance demo -

Awesome propaganda video. Probably best to wait till real data is available.

[gossamersolid 155]

google a bit. read some dev blogs about it.

More and more companies are starting to utilize mantle, you will see more of it in the future.

here is a nice talk about it. tho its not a dx vs mantle performance video. it talks about current issues with dx and other stuff in general..

Yes, I've seen that video.

Once again, until we see a trusted source provide straight benchmarks on how good mantle is, it's all marketing bullshit.

It's like when an Nvidia driver comes out and they say "UP TO 38% FRAME INCREASE", but in reality, it's more like a 5% frame increase.

[calin_banc 19]

If it was a real world performance demo i would be able to run it on my PC myself, and it would have a directX equivalent for comparison.

Able to use != will use.

Mantle may be great, but all ive seen so far is pretty much AMD marketing spam, so lets not get all hyped up.

No worries, you'll have it on Steam next month plus Thief and hopefully this month will be BF4.

From DX11 to DX11.1 in BF 4 I had 30-40% increase in minimum FPS in some situations, exactly in the points that DO matter. Gaining significant boost from API alone isn't black magic.

Edited January 11, 2014 by calin_banc

[t3mp 11]

Mantle released!

http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/news/view/bf4-mantle-live/

may be a solution for arma series?

[Llano 11]

Mantle released!

http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/news/view/bf4-mantle-live/

may be a solution for arma series?

Still, the problem with Arma is that it require so much cpu? Is't mantle only for gpu?

[turin turambar 0]

Still, the problem with Arma is that it require so much cpu? Is't mantle only for gpu?

GPU is used... by drivers and graphical APIs. Those are executed in the cpu, and have a big overhead under certain settings. Arma 3 is a prime example of it.

[Furret 0]

The percentage of machines that could utilise the mantle API isn't high enough to warrant development time.

The time is better spent improving the simulation engine and fixing bugs.

[Leon86 13]

GPU is used... by drivers and graphical APIs. Those are executed in the cpu, and have a big overhead under certain settings. Arma 3 is a prime example of it.

Not really, the biggest fps drops are because of the simulation, not directx overhead. If you have a big fight in a city you can increase viewdistance without losing performance.