AH-9 Pawnee minigun damage values

[almanzo 144]

Just a short clip I made to show how rediculous the damage value is for the Pawnee helicopter minigun. Just FYI, I have extended armor off.

I love the Pawnee, but as it is now, it's annoying using it, due to the fact that the minigun is so rediculously uneffective. It takes three to four bursts of direct fire to mow down one enemy, making the Pawnee kind of useless except for it's rockets.

Can these values please be tweaked?

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

This is my solution. Have different variants of light recon attack helis. Seeing as it is 2035, im quite surprised BI hasn't stray slightly away from older designs. The littlebrid for example had Mini-guns and rockets. Why not Retrofit the Pawnee with maybe a 25mm cannon on one side. THAT would be way more effective, and would be 10 times better than spraying some led all over the place to scare an enemy or two.

[TheMightyMooseKing 10]

I think the 7.62 miniguns need to be tweaked in the following categories:

Fire rate, in another thread I heard that the miniguns only have about 1200rpm as opposed to the real life M134 minigun which can fire at 2000-4000 rounds per minute.

Convergence, Right now both miniguns just fire straight instead of actually having both bullet streams meet at a certain distance, e.g. 300 meters.

Damage value, It's a 7.62 yet it still takes up to 5 shots center mass to kill somebody with it.

[progamer 14]

These are all bandages you guys come up with. Not real solutions because the big issue why these problems exist is fire rate being broken by the engine at the moment and them abanding Arma 2's solution to the problem.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

That is interesting, i've always noticed the RPM in Arma and other games. Hold the trigger and Battlefield. Hold the trigger in Arma 2/3. Notice that the RPM kinda sputters. It isn't a straight fire rate, almost like a stream that is disrupted my something minor.

[progamer 14]

That is interesting, i've always noticed the RPM in Arma and other games. Hold the trigger and Battlefield. Hold the trigger in Arma 2/3. Notice that the RPM kinda sputters. It isn't a straight fire rate, almost like a stream that is disrupted my something minor.

Why don't we use Arma 2's fix until RV4 can have the limitation fixed.

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=15519

[Bashka_IF 1]

This video is private.

cool bro

[St. Jimmy 272]

That is interesting, i've always noticed the RPM in Arma and other games. Hold the trigger and Battlefield. Hold the trigger in Arma 2/3. Notice that the RPM kinda sputters. It isn't a straight fire rate, almost like a stream that is disrupted my something minor.

The fire rate depends on your fps. It was either 60 or 90fps when te RoF was max.

RoF and the damage has been discussed so many times and still not fixed.

Minigun tickets:

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=1747

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=10635

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=11229

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=12268

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=14230

[Tonci87 163]

Are you on stable or Dev Build? Because on Dev Build the Pawnee has seriously overpowered HE ammunition.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Why don't we use Arma 2's fix until RV4 can have the limitation fixed.

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=15519

I agree with that. Also though, i would still like to see few different versions of the littlebird, or maybe all scout heli's. Maybe one with a little more punch.

[fn_Quiksilver 1636]

My take on the AH-9.

It is a Light Reconaissance Helicopter.

Should be outfitted with FLIR.

Optional attachement of mast-mounted periscope for co-pilot (commander).

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/kiowa/

The Direct Attack Rockets (HE) are fine.

The 7.62 MG has zero spread, which is a problem. Maybe 10mm explosive rounds or something instead, to band-aid abit of spread into that weapons system.

Optional attachment

Convert one of the rocket pods into a 6-round Direct Attack HEAT Rocket (High Explosive Anti-Tank).

Right now only the AH-99 has the HEAT rockets, although there is no mention in description that they are in fact Anti-Tank.

They are called DAGR, implying merely a Guided direct attack rocket, seemingly similar to the AH-9 DARs. However they are much different with their Anti-Tank capabilities.

...

So yeah:

The MG needs a bit of spread, unless its intended purpose is knocking out engine blocks of light vehicles, in which case its adequate.

The Rocket Pods are fine, although it would be nice to have option of a 6-round HE-AT unguided pod, to give it SOME anti-armor capability. Right now its anti-car and anti-infantry-cluster.

More Recon/Observation ability, with FLIR on a mast-mounted commanders screen for the copilot.

It is completely ineffective in missions with any enemy armor or AA assets.

I find it only becomes useful when friendly grenadier marks targets with red smoke grenades.

Also in the hands of modestly good pilots, it is effective at taking down enemy helicopters.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

^ nuf said. Though, i like my 25 mm cannon better. Ahaha, but maybe that would be better fitted on a larger helicopter, such as the KA-60 (P-30 Orca)

[fn_Quiksilver 1636]

^ nuf said. Though, i like my 25 mm cannon better. Ahaha, but maybe that would be better fitted on a larger helicopter, such as the KA-60 (P-30 Orca)

Which vehicle has a 25mm cannon?

re guns on helicopters

AH-99 = 20mm cannon

Mi-48 = 30mm (HE + AP) cannon

PD-30 = 6.5mm, pylon-mounted

I could be wrong ...

Does the A-143 (jet) have a 20mm?

....

I like the idea of 7.62 miniguns on the AH-9, however they need a slight 'shotgun' effect to be useful when you're flying at 150km/h on a strafe run, trying to shoot ants on the ground is not worth the risk when those ants can snipe you out of the cockpit.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

No, you mis-read, i am saying i would like if BI could make different armaments for these vehicles. In other words, invent a KA-60 (P-30 Orca) with different armament. One with the pylon 6.5, and one with maybe a 25mm HE pod.

And yes, the Buzzard has a heavy cannon pylon as well, which could be possible for BI to simply attach that to a scout heli. not sure what "mm" though.

[progamer 14]

Which vehicle has a 25mm cannon?

re guns on helicopters

AH-99 = 20mm cannon

Mi-48 = 30mm (HE + AP) cannon

PD-30 = 6.5mm, pylon-mounted

I could be wrong ...

Does the A-143 (jet) have a 20mm?

....

I like the idea of 7.62 miniguns on the AH-9, however they need a slight 'shotgun' effect to be useful when you're flying at 150km/h on a strafe run, trying to shoot ants on the ground is not worth the risk when those ants can snipe you out of the cockpit.

They need to be realistic. Not having artificial stats.

[fn_Quiksilver 1636]

No, you mis-read, i am saying i would like if BI could make diferent armaments for these vehicles. In other words, invent a KA-60 (P-30 Orca) with different armament. One with the pylon 6.5, and one with maybe a 25mm HE pod.

Yeah, interchangeable pylon-mounted systems would be great.

Not necessarily for in-game on-the-tarmac adjustment, but at least for mission editors, as a method of tweaking the balance and having the right tool for the job.

example:

Right now if a mission creator wants to give BLUFOR an Anti-Tank-capable Close Air Support, they are stuck with only the A-143 or AH-99.

The AH-99 is grossly overpowered for Anti-Tank missions, while the A-143 jet might not be appropriate for the mission.

Would be nice if the creator could say "Okay, the AH-99 is too overpowered for this mission, so I'll add in an AH-9, remove one of the 12-round DAR pods and replace with a 4-round DAR (HE-AT) pod.

good idea

---------- Post added at 05:27 ---------- Previous post was at 05:24 ----------

They need to be realistic. Not having artificial stats.

In real life, slight vibrations in the airframe of the helicopter would provide enough spread for the system to be useful.

In Arma 3, there is no such vibrational physics, meaning it is like using a laser pointer (which also takes a few hits to kill instead of the usual 2 with 7.62).

That vibrational effect may be beyond the engines capabilities or BIS will to change, so a patch solution is to simulate spread with a minor HE/shrapnel effect upon impact.

[progamer 14]

Yeah, interchangeable pylon-mounted systems would be great.

Not necessarily for in-game on-the-tarmac adjustment, but at least for mission editors, as a method of tweaking the balance and having the right tool for the job.

example:

Right now if a mission creator wants to give BLUFOR an Anti-Tank-capable Close Air Support, they are stuck with only the A-143 or AH-99.

The AH-99 is grossly overpowered for Anti-Tank missions, while the A-143 jet might not be appropriate for the mission.

Would be nice if the creator could say "Okay, the AH-99 is too overpowered for this mission, so I'll add in an AH-9, remove one of the 12-round DAR pods and replace with a 4-round DAR (HE-AT) pod.

good idea

You realize you can give any armed vehicle any weapon and remove any weapon from any armed vehicle right? And realistically speaking some things just always destroy other things. It's like a food chain.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Hey, you guys should help me with this, could use an up vote now that i think about it.

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=15214

Also, if there is no spread, didn't they have spread before? There should be slight spread, and they should criss-cross at about 300 meters.

[JestersDead 2]

I LOVE flying the littlebird, but the miniguns are nearly useless in their current form. They need a few things to make them effective.

1) Rate of fire. The RoF is seriously low. Two miniguns should chew through 5000 rounds quite fast if you just blaze away. This is really not the case.

2) Convergance. The guns should not be fixed straight ahead and parallel. They should cross at some imaginary point in front of the pilot. Probably about 200-300m out.

3) Dispersion. The shots should have a bit of spread so that when you're slinging a combined 8,000 rounds per minute at a group of troops, you're just peppering the area with ammo in a decent sized cone. Not so much shotgun effect, but there should be a bit more spread than we have now.

If those three things are fixed, we wouldn't need HE minigun ammo, or a cannon. Though having hellfire missiles like the OH-58D can carry would be awesome. Maybe even an option to mount a .50 caliber MG combo instead of the miniguns. Having a pair of .50's would make the littlebird DEADLY against light vehicles.

[almanzo 144]

This video is private.

cool bro

I'm sorry. I have fixed it now buddy. It was initially "not listed", I must have fucked it up when editing it or something. It's available again now.

[St. Jimmy 272]

Are you on stable or Dev Build? Because on Dev Build the Pawnee has seriously overpowered HE ammunition.

Well it still needs 3 shots to kill and that's too much IMO.

[Miroslaw Kowalski 54]

Doesn't the Pawnee already have a FLIR? I thought because i read this in the config:

class FLIR_HRot {
			source = "user";
			animPeriod = 1e-007;
			initPhase = 0;
		};

		class FLIR_VRot {
			source = "user";
			animPeriod = 1e-007;
			initPhase = 0;
		};

Maybe it has to be enabled with an animation command?

Also I want to mention that you can also have an overpowered gun on your Pawnee without Dev Branch :D

I made just a few config changes and this happened [video coming soon when I rendered and uploaded it :D]

Edit: Also there's a FLIR_F.p3d in the files of the AH9

[progamer 14]

Adding splash damage and increasing the damage all are just bandaids making the weapon unrealistic. The engine has a fire rate limitation so why don't we use arma 2's solution until the engine limitation is fixed: http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=15519

[Miroslaw Kowalski 54]

got this working with this animate ["AddFLIR", 1]; http://img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/2013102000003h82xv7adg.jpg (384 kB)

[Tonci87 163]

Well it still needs 3 shots to kill and that's too much IMO.

Yeah, three shots that don´t even have to remotely hit the target. I´m fine with increased bullet damage if they remove the splash damage