Devs, please explain this performance

[fabio_chavez 103]

my CPU is a Intel Xeon X3220 quadcore (its the same as OPs), though it is overclocked by 50% and i can run 64player bf3 matches on ultra, 80player arma2 matches or pr:bf2 128player matches with no problem at all. I can run a3 smoothly on ultra with 150% 3dresolution and 2000m viewdistance in singlplayer. I conservatively run a3 with 1080p, high object detail and 1200m viewdistance in multiplayer, occasionally it is perfectly possible to play with 40+ players and assets (i dont join AI servers).

yet most of the time i got the exact same problems that everyone but a few miraculously satisfied persons are getting. like 15 fps in multiplayer no matter what gfx setting, and that on the majority of the servers... i understand perfectly well that my cpu is not exactly helping here but the truth is, its not exactly the root of the problem either. In fact people with expensive CPUs are upset because of the lack of optimization, you can frequently witness lamentations like "i should have bought a dualcore and OC it to 5ghz since nothing seem to be more effective than raw clockspeed and there is no real support for multicores"... you arguments are blatant strawmen and you think if you can say "2007" you got a point... i can say 2006! in 2006 valve introduced multicore support for HL2... the game was allready released then, they introduced it with as an engine update together with ep2. why cant we have nice things?

[kklownboy 43]

15fps? really where? on what? My worst is 25 at the main airport next to the Terminal on a Domi, which when I open in the editor and just remove plane and tanks etc it goes up to 40 with still alot of stuff, granted Domi has one Main-Target mission going and a small side at anyone time. But once out of the start zone/Airport I get upto and depending where to the 60s/70s with a whole lot of 30s... but its smooth. Even with the varying FPSs

[fabio_chavez 103]

ah kklownboy, now that you say it, i must have been dreaming about all this... meh :j:

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=1264

[ric 1]

I only judged you as someone with a feeling of entitlement who seriously expected devs to reply to a post asking why an 8 year old CPU isn't working very well.

who's rig is this tank?

Old machine:

Specs: 1920x1200, Win 7 32-bit, MSI Motherboard, Intel Core Q9550 @ 2.84, 4GB RAM, MSI 560 Ti Hawk, OS on Intel 330 120GB SSD, ARMA on Samsung 500GB HDD.

Settings: all maximum except Visibility 1600/800/100, Objects & Terrain Standard, Shadow High, SSAO Disabled, FSAA & ATOC Disabled and all post processing at 100.

Avg 50, Minmax 40-67 fps.

[Tankbuster 1747]

Don't know Ric. I used to have a Q9550 and it was excellent. Much more powerful that a Q6600. Is that quote describing a machine running A3? All settings maximum? Someone might be telling fibs. :)

We can't get away from the obvious truth. The OP came in here asking for Devs to tell him why the game runs like crap on his machine. Why he thinks a developer would take time to answer him, when we all know the answer is beyond me and I suspect many others.

Since then, we've seen a few other users with machines of similar vintage frothing and wailing that the OP is right and the game is at fault. He even manages to find that his machine barely scrapes in at the minimum system requirements. And for the "no other game has brought it to it's knees like this", in English we have a phrase for this - "Ah. That old chestnut".

An overclock might help, but a poster here has said the CPU is probably throttling in the heat. I have to say I've seen very good overclocking from a Q6600 in the distant past, but I don't think any amount of overclocking is going to make this particular one work satisfactorily. Not all Q6600s are created equal.

No one, least of all me is saying the game or it's engine is perfect and on some days, I get performance that looks just like the pictures in the original post. We've all read about users with cutting edge machines get similar results. But to rock up here demanding Maruk et al explain his PC's performance is ludicrous. And for him to carry on in this vein is ridiculous.

Just wait for a few days. You'll see an almost identical post from another new user who can't see the obvious and then refuses to accept it when put in front of their face. Seen it all before.

[fabio_chavez 103]

the circumstance that this is the 1000s revival of the topic is exactly why i objected to those answers OP got in the first place... if you put it from different perspectives, and put some reason into your judgement, like you did, thats nice. But if you just jump in on the user, to try to convince him that there is noone else to blame but him, in complete denial of obvious, well described and broadly accepted engine/server related issues... i fellt obliged to give people that same discussion again that people intendet to choke here.

[Tankbuster 1747]

the circumstance that this is the 1000s revival

I was replying to a post directed at me.

i fellt obliged to give people that same discussion again that people intendet to choke here.

Unlike you, who purely wanted to drag up another, done to death topic.

if you put it from different perspectives, and put some reason into your judgement, like you did, thats nice. .

These are English words, but they make no sense.

to try to convince him that there is noone else to blame but him, in complete denial of obvious, well described and broadly accepted engine/server related issues....

He asked, rather comically, for a reply from developers. I had this vision of Maruk leaping up from his desk, tipping his coffee over, dashing down a narrow corridor, pushing nubile young secretaries into adjoining rooms screaming "GET ME TO A KEYBOARD RIGHT NOW!!!!! A USER WANTS ME!!!!11". He punches Dwarden off his keyboard and signs into the forum. He reads a user 'will enjoy an explanation' as to why his rig isn't working very well. He reads said rig has a CPU that first went on sale in January 2007. He exclaims "COCK!" , punches Dwarden again for good measure, and returns to his coffee stained desk.

None of us are entitled to, or can expect a personal reply from a developer on ANY subject, least of all a performance query. Less so when the CPU in question stopped being made in late 2008. I read further down the thread that he's probably overclocked it beyond its TDP thus making it even slower. Now I read that he's doing some 'pin mod' because the motherboard doesn't support overclocking (few of the intel boards of that time did). It sprung to my mind that if he seriously thought a developer might entertain his request, how likely is he going to be able to successfully hack pins on the motherboard without killing it completely? It is a shame the motherboard won't overclock because as you nearly pointed out the FSB on this chip, and yours is 1066 and thus ripe for an OC.

I often wonder how many of the most vociferous complaints about the state of the game engine and how it doesn't scale terribly well onto less powerful machines come form users who are still relying on the venerable Core 2 line and it's peers.

Get real. The weaknesses of the game engine are not what's causing his problems. The original question was a bit silly and he got called on it. He got off pretty lightly. W0lle would have munched him up badly.

[Dwarden 1125]

nothing in ungood but even my core2duo on 4GHz does better ...

ofcourse it's less powerful compared to i5 (3-4 times) or i7 (4-6 times) on 4GHz (which i do have too)

anyway some of the problems related to MP are unrelated to CPU power ...

[Harzach 2518]

From BIS's website under the minimum system requirements...

It's pretty common knowledge that a minimum requirement spec describes what is necessary to execute the game code, nothing more. If you want to enjoy your gaming experience, meeting the recommended requirement spec is ... recommended.

[NeuroFunker 11]

now the OP, has earned an achivement "dark force" - force any of the devs, reply to you.

[pr0ph3tswe 1]

30 fps seems fine with that setup imo, specially considering you run with high object and terrain quality that both take a lot of cpu power

[jiltedjock 10]

The OP came in here asking for Devs to tell him why the game runs like crap on his machine.

Wind your neck in. What he asked was why the frame rate dropped so significantly from single player - where it is acceptable, to him - compared to an empty mission in multiplayer, and provided screenshots to illustrate. Not an unreasonable question.

I assume from your post count that you are an experienced user. Or unemployed. As an experienced user you will know - unless there is a specific issue with multiplayer at the moment - that it is most likely due to the server view distance being too much for his CPU. And that he won't be aware his client setting for VD doesn't override this.

Wouldn't it be a better use of your experience to explain this rather than jump on a new player? Yes it is ludicrous to title his post asking for a dev to explain, but it is no less ludicrous - or sick making - to watch someone with experience brown nosing and name dropping BIS devs like the Big I Am rather than explaining something to a new player.

Edited October 4, 2013 by jiltedjock

[Tankbuster 1747]

Experienced? I guess so. Unemployed? No. Wind my neck in? The time is right. I've said my bit.

I expect the servers he is joining are forcing VD on him as you and other describe. I'm by and large a Domination editor and player. I'm accustomed to the client being able to set their own VD and grass settings.

He got all the he needed, though he heeded only some of it. Then some of the other poverty spec gamers came to support him, all of them in the full knowledge his and their CPUs are the overarching cause of their problems. I note that since the OP engaged in some 'pin mod', he's not been online since. I fear it didn't go well. I've said it before and I'll say it again - he asked a face palmingly stupid question and that's never going to ellicit a thread full of useful and polite answers.

Yes, there's problems in the engine, but fixing them isn't going to turn the OP, or many others machines into 60 FPS gaming giants. They need to get their head around this.

I object to being accused of brown nosing. :) I quoted the CEO of the company in a fictitious light. If brown nosing is objecting to those asking really stupid questions that even the briefest of search with this forums crappiest of search engine would have answered, then I suppose I'd best get used to it.

Come to think of it - I wonder if the performance MikeyMuse refers to, is the flaming he apparently very successfully baited me into. Damn.

[mt 10]

anyway some of the problems related to MP are unrelated to CPU power ...

Where can I read about the details of these issues? What are they related to?

Can server administrators, mission makers or players somehow mitigate them? How?

Are you going to fix them and when?

[[frl]myke 14]

Flamebaiting posts removed. Please use other vocabulary to express your disappointment. Thank you.

[ric 1]

Then some of the other poverty spec gamers came to support him

your sounding a bit elitist there mate.

to answer your question yes that quote is from someone running A3 and like you when i saw it did cause me to raise an eyebrow :) now as for the whole "antiquated hardware" argument I say this, the assertion that old hardware is to blame is both wrong and right , it is right because the new architecture runs single threaded apps much better but it is also wrong at the same time because the engine can not fully utilize his existing hardware which makes for a valid complaint.