AH-64D Apache Longbow for ArmA2 by Nodunit and Franze

[johnnygitarr 7]

hi franze and nodunit,

today i've tried your mod in arma 3. it runs very well. love to fly with ai gunner fighting against my enemys with the m230.

is it possible to activate the tads system as pilot? would love to see this option.

if my gunner dies in a fight i can't fight back as pilot with the m230.

another option i miss is a flir bhot and whot for pilots (if you give control to tads in future, i'vh wrote this line) :)

in arma 3 the autohover function gets overwritten by user input.

love your work. you are heros!

[nodunit 397]

hi franze and nodunit,

today i've tried your mod in arma 3. it runs very well. love to fly with ai gunner fighting against my enemys with the m230.

is it possible to activate the tads system as pilot? would love to see this option.

if my gunner dies in a fight i can't fight back as pilot with the m230.

another option i miss is a flir bhot and whot for pilots (if you give control to tads in future, i'vh wrote this line) :)

in arma 3 the autohover function gets overwritten by user input.

love your work. you are heros!

Sure you can, you just activate manual fire and then enable gun control so that the M230 is slaved to the pilots head.

The only way I can see the pilot being able to see what TADS does is through PIP, I'm not aware of a way that crew members can have multiple optic sources unless maybe we get into script override territory.

[reconteam 19]

Here is a photo of a new AH-64E with those wingtip sensors I am talking about, which I presume to be additional CMWS sensors.

They certainly seems to be removable as the new AH-64Es for Taiwan have what I'm guessing to be a launcher for the Sidewinder there instead.

I still have no idea what color/colors either the ORT or TEDAC shows FLIR and TV imagery in (the latest MTADS upgrade will add full-color DTV), but the other MFDs seem to use green.

[islesfan186 83]

The wingtip EOMS have been on the -64 for quite a while. That's base level CMWS. The only EOMs sensor I never saw was the "5th sensor" mod which was supposed to go on the belly, probably behind the ammo bay. Not sure about the FLIR...if you say that the new MTADS is full color DTV that's pretty badass! Definitely did not have that when I was still in. UAVS have had that tech for a while, I was wondering when someone was gonna wise up and give it to the Apache

Btw what is that thing that's in front of the anti collision light (not the HADS probe, the little ball thing). New style formation light?

Edited May 13, 2014 by islesfan186

[reconteam 19]

The wingtip EOMS have been on the -64 for quite a while. That's base level CMWS. The only EOMs sensor I never saw was the "5th sensor" mod which was supposed to go on the belly, probably behind the ammo bay. Not sure about the FLIR...if you say that the new MTADS is full color DTV that's pretty badass! Definitely did not have that when I was still in. UAVS have had that tech for a while, I was wondering when someone was gonna wise up and give it to the Apache

So it looks like there are two in front of the CPG's station, two on the tailboom, and an optional two on the wingtips. Was this one on the bottom another CMWS sensor or something else? MTADS/PNVS is currently just an overhaul of the FLIR related systems, but M-DSA is supposed to be a second stage that upgrades all of other components. There are a few promotional videos of it on the net and such. I'm not certain if it is something the Army is already funding or if it is just an offer from Lockheed.

Btw what is that thing that's in front of the anti collision light (not the HADS probe, the little ball thing). New style formation light?

I'm not certain but I'm guessing it is a new formation light. I wonder why they would have changed it?

[islesfan186 83]

There are none on the tailboom....its 2 by the TADS and 2 on the wingtips (not optional, thats part of the CMWS package. The US does not use nor has any plans to use Stinger missiles on the Apache). There is an APR-39 RWR on the tailboom. Maybe they have added more for the 64E, but ETSed in 2011, so never got to see them. But 64D's up to Block II+ only had the 4 EOMs I mentioned.

Surprised there is no ASPI mod on that aircraft...I thought that was supposed to be a standard mod by now

Edited May 14, 2014 by islesfan186

[reconteam 19]

I recently picked up one of those small walk-around books for the AH-64 I saw at a local hobby shop, and it shows a good job showing the additions to the AH-64 over the years. On a later Block II AH-64D it shows there are two AAR-57 plume detectors on the tail-boom between the laser warning sensor and some other sort of sensor (RWR?). There is one photo of a CMWS equipped AH-64D without the wingtip sensors and a mention that the 7-6 Cavalry's AH-64As have been upgraded with the CMWS. The AH-64Es ordered by Taiwan also lack the wingtip sensors and appear to have a Sidewinder launcher (looks different from the normal Stinger launcher).

APSI? Is that the new scoop-type exhaust suppression system? Maybe it's some sort of regional modification for places like Afghanistan where AH-64s are flying high and don't have to worry about any sort of enemy aircraft?

[franze 196]

ASPI is built by a different contractor, when they come off the assembly lines at Boeing they have the old exhaust stacks. AH-64As are all completely gone now as well, the TXNG turned them in a couple years back.

The AH-64Es that Taiwan has are equipped with provisions for ATAS. The AH-64Ds that the JSDF have are equipped with the same hardpoints.

[islesfan186 83]

I recently picked up one of those small walk-around books for the AH-64 I saw at a local hobby shop, and it shows a good job showing the additions to the AH-64 over the years. On a later Block II AH-64D it shows there are two AAR-57 plume detectors on the tail-boom between the laser warning sensor and some other sort of sensor (RWR?). There is one photo of a CMWS equipped AH-64D without the wingtip sensors and a mention that the 7-6 Cavalry's AH-64As have been upgraded with the CMWS. The AH-64Es ordered by Taiwan also lack the wingtip sensors and appear to have a Sidewinder launcher (looks different from the normal Stinger launcher).

APSI? Is that the new scoop-type exhaust suppression system? Maybe it's some sort of regional modification for places like Afghanistan where AH-64s are flying high and don't have to worry about any sort of enemy aircraft?

Yeah, ASPI is the scoop exhaust. It's meant for cutting down the heat signatures since it blows the exhaust up into the rotors. There are grates mounted on the NGB inlets as well as the TRGB inlet as well to eliminate a "heat spot" that would show up on IR. Of course its not 100% but it's supposed to drastically cut down the heat signature of the aircraft. As of 2008 or 2009, it was something the aircraft was required to have prior to deploying (same with CMWS), but that may have changed. I'm just surprised that Mesa isn't turning them out with ASPI already installed

[robowilso 40]

Don't know what your current time restraints are or where your combined interests lie, but this is something I found that I thought might would possibly get you guys excited about this project again and provide a relevant truth that would fit along the lines of Arma 3.

---------- Post added at 04:35 ---------- Previous post was at 04:34 ----------

And this is planned to be a ''partner system'' with the Guardian. Thank You for the most awesome modification you have gifted to us.

[nodunit 397]

Oh that is just one of the few awesome upgrades coming with the echo..it's not that we so much lost our excitement as much as reality got in the way and a few road blocks came up..for example the skin system we mentioned a looong time ago was planned to be publicized with a psd in release so that people could make their own paint schemes without having to worry about losing details...at that time however the psd totalled over 100megs, that said I have learned what must be done to collapse it all into just a few layers without losing any detail and make it work with other paint schemes. So the next major release will probably have this PSD and a variety of paint schemes to choose from, from real to just fun.

Another issue on my part is that for better or worse some data was lost in my move from 3ds to blender, or components were simply made at a time where the engines lighting wasn't as understood, so they require a bit of rebuilding.

In truth the biggest things keeping us from Arma 3 are simulation_X's problem with interaction points (meaning no interacting with the cockpit which is a biiiig red mark) and then a problem with the weapon system which is another thing we're not willing to depart..the ability to slave the gun to a target, lock it and control it from the pilots view would be too much of a loss.

I'm really hoping that BI doesn't limit themselves too much with the addition of rotorlib to Arma 3, because it could provide us with an alternative to simulation_X but that still leaves the gun control problem which miiight be more workable if we get to keep interactive capability.

[robowilso 40]

Please excuse my ignorance & thank you for promptly addressing my post. I am wondering though.. what is 'Simulation_X problem?' Peral's A-10C addon has quite a few and your Apache runs almost perfectly within the game. Although I am not aware nor informed on what it takes to create such interaction points or even a functioning model. All that I DO Know is that you two guys along with your teams put out one of the grandest addons i've came across in Arma so far and quite selfishly, I have been very anxious to see you guys' future designs and ideas. Maybe with the new Helo DLC that is en-route our way a request for the adjustments that you need to have BI square away can be relayed to them to see if they are possibilities. Has there been some type of change within the game engine from Arma 2 - Arma 3?

[nodunit 397]

Not at all, better to air on caution and show people than to assume that they know about these things, so it is appreciated.

Simulation x is part of physX, basicly what is used on the vanilla helicopters to control their various properties.

Aside from the weapon computer the big issue is where the center of mass is located and whatnot...in Arma 2 it is between the pilot and the main rotor but in Arma 3 it is between the main rotor and tailboom which makes control a bit...funky.

I don't know for sure if this is simply a carry over since the aircraft is designed for Arma 2 or if it is physX...

[franze 196]

There have been a variety of holdups and issues with the project. I'll try to describe a few of them here. Some are specific to ArmA3; some are generic limitations spread across the RV engined based games (to include TKOH, ArmA2, ArmA3).

One of the first and major ones is the bone limit. Currently, the max supported bone limit is 256 bones. This seems like a lot and for the most part it is; the problem is that when you want to get real in depth like we did, you end up running up the bone count pretty quick. This presents some other problems as well which I'll delve into later, but main thing is that everything from the MPD pages to the rotor blades use bones. This is why some pages are only on the left or right MPDs; the bones they use is too extensive and to duplicate them on both MPDs would not allow bones for other parts of the aircraft.

Displays and instruments are another. Currently, there only exists the BIS 'MFD'/'HUD' config section for displaying information in 3D space. The limits are of course you can only have just the one and the information you can display on it is limited, along with tying it into scripting. This makes it a no-go if you want to have realistic displays like we have. If we had a capability to take a canvas and render it on a 2D face (similar to PiP) using a mechanic similar to the way our IHADSS works, we would be a lot more flexible and could cut way down on the bone count. I had at one point in time wanted to do a MFD overlay on the screen similar to the way IHADSS works now but never got around to it. Side note: the original FCR/TSD display worked like this in a prototype form while waiting for the cockpit model to be completed.

_X simulation types, introduced in ArmA3, brought on a separate issue. When finding or locating points on the model with modeltoworld and worldtomodel, if a vehicle has one of the new PhysX based simulation types (indicated with a X on the end - such as HelicopterX, CarX, etc.), then there is a disconnect with the model space and the world space. What this means is as the vehicle or object gets variances in it's velocity, the accuracy of modeltoworld and worldtomodel goes to shit. You end up with your model points being 10m behind you when flying backwards, 20m above you when climbing, etc. which means that everything from weapon positioning to click actions are completely FUBAR. This creates further problems because the old physics model doesn't exist anymore (though I'd be hard pressed to find differences between the old physics and the PhysX implementation in ArmA3) which gives you the odd issues with flight physics, center of gravity, and so on.

The animate command and custom animations in ArmA3 were changed or modified somehow that results in very bad synchronization of animated parts. What this does is makes it impossible for the gun and pylons to be tied to a custom user animation, which ruins the ability to use the automatic tracking capability and HMD capability for the gun and rockets in multiplayer with two different clients in the same aircraft. When it is just the pilot with an AI gunner there are no issues; it all works the way it's supposed to. When you have two clients in the same aircraft, the gunner can't aim the weapons properly; there is a 5-10 second delay from when he moves the weapons to when they actually aim at the target. This issue does not exist in ArmA2 or TKOH.

The end result is that you get two steps forward but two steps back with ArmA3. Yes, we could ditch the click actions and the pylons and the turrets. But those were both very major things that took months (and in the case of the gun turret, years) to implement. It leaves a very sour taste in my mouth to simply ditch those features to get - in effect - a Comanche with a different skin and model.

[noubernou 77]

Just throwing this out there, but I've worked out in my head and a couple tests (though nothing really worth sharing) that it should be possible to do MPD graphics on the fly in a DLL using any 2d graphics library you want and spit them out to the /userconfig/ folder where they can be set using setObjectTexture on the model on the fly.

It'd need some work to do PAA conversion if you need transparency, but it would work pretty much right out of the box for JPG files.

This could get rid of a lot of the bones issues. I suggested something to Peral too for his A-10C, but I haven't had the time to work on it.

[nodunit 397]

Just throwing this out there, but I've worked out in my head and a couple tests (though nothing really worth sharing) that it should be possible to do MPD graphics on the fly in a DLL using any 2d graphics library you want and spit them out to the /userconfig/ folder where they can be set using setObjectTexture on the model on the fly.

It'd need some work to do PAA conversion if you need transparency, but it would work pretty much right out of the box for JPG files.

This could get rid of a lot of the bones issues. I suggested something to Peral too for his A-10C, but I haven't had the time to work on it.

Jpeg? curious..I think that would be the first time I'd ever seen those used over anything else..So this could in theory function with moving components such as say the flight page or engine page and not use any or less of the bones required to move things?

I would really like to hear more about this.

Edited May 25, 2014 by NodUnit

[noubernou 77]

If you can write something that spits out the files quick enough (honestly easier if you get a transparency working with PAA, then you can just spit out elements) then yea, it should be able to "animate". I was considering something like this for 3D radios in ACRE2, but eh, there are too many problems when it comes to 3D interfaces when not in a vehicle (stupid rendering context issues).

The reason I said jpg, is that the engine has jpg support for textures and it's a common output for many graphic libraries.

[nodunit 397]

If you can write something that spits out the files quick enough (honestly easier if you get a transparency working with PAA, then you can just spit out elements) then yea, it should be able to "animate". I was considering something like this for 3D radios in ACRE2, but eh, there are too many problems when it comes to 3D interfaces when not in a vehicle (stupid rendering context issues).

The reason I said jpg, is that the engine has jpg support for textures and it's a common output for many graphic libraries.

"if you get a transparency working with PAA" Does this system not natively or ideally support paa files?

[noubernou 77]

"if you get a transparency working with PAA" Does this system not natively or ideally support paa files?

The library would be written in C++ or whatever, so you'd need some library to convert whatever output to PAA.

[sonsalt6 105]

New mod v1.31 for A3 available at withSIX. Download now by clicking:

@ Nodunit & Franze;

Soon you will be able to manage the promo pages of your content on our web platform and publish new content yourself.

To do so, please hit 'this is me' button on the page while logged in and you will get connected to your work.

For now you can send new content or releases our way through withsix.wetransfer.com or add your notification at getsatisfaction.withsix.com.

[nodunit 397]

Thank you for adding that and making it more accessible for some folks.

[Geronimo62 10]

Like I say, that link doesnt work!

[pawelkpl 29]

Hi, Thx for that mod. It makes me happy with A3. I found strange bug:

http://youtu.be/vk7esVkvh84

also , I can't rearm it by clicking arming. windows pop up but ream buton and repair does not work. ANyway thx for that mod again.

[nodunit 397]

Hi, Thx for that mod. It makes me happy with A3. I found strange bug:

http://youtu.be/vk7esVkvh84

also , I can't rearm it by clicking arming. windows pop up but ream buton and repair does not work. ANyway thx for that mod again.

Ah I see the AI unit for testing an unmanned apache is working nicely...though it seems they coded it to behave like a teasing dog that walks up to you but when you reach out to pet it, walks away.

Edited June 5, 2014 by NodUnit

[Geronimo62 10]

I thougt in A3 its still not working? Cannot start, "no fuel" issue...