Shotguns in ArmA 3?

[mannulus 38]

I was going through the weapons section of the Launch Countdown and seemed to notice that there were a lack of shotguns. I am sure though that making every weapon type available to every faction is difficult; On top of that, each weapon has to be made from scratch, no references from real-world or anything of the sort (so I think). Will there be shotguns available at release, or in a DLC? If not then I am guessing I will have to wait till someone makes one or more as an addon.

[chortles 263]

There's already two separate mods that have the Benelli M4 Super 90.

[maturin 12]

ArmA 3 still has the code for buckshot, right?

[Von Quest 1163]

The Benelli Shotgun mod can use both Slug and Buckshot. Works great.

[ThisIsPatrick 1]

haven't seen any shotguns yet =/

this is a real bummer for me btw..

EDIT: they got removed? really? i mean, really?

Edited September 14, 2013 by ThisIsPatrick

[chortles 263]

The M4 Super 90/M1014 was back during the 2011 iteration of Arma 3 but the Kel-Tec KSG was only ever seen in one screenshot; can't say that I'm surprised that the M1014 -- along with much of the 2011 "vision" of Arma 3 -- was tossed aside (it's not exactly a secret that the current project lead came aboard in late 2012 -- then he and the creative director "binned" the past two years of Arma 3 development!) but the devs have never elaborated on the Kel-Tec KSG's disappearance after that one screenshot.

[suprememodder 11]

haven't seen any shotguns yet =/

this is a real bummer for me btw..

EDIT: they got removed? really? i mean, really?

how else are they going to sell those things back to us as dlcs?

[Elena 2]

I read somewhere that - along with the campaign DLC's - two Shotguns are supposed to get released. But i haven't found anything official on the Issue.

Now, reading through free version of Dslyecxis' Community Guide - and knowing Dslyecxi works for BI with these Guides and Videos - i found these two Render-Images, showing an AA-12 lookalike named AA40 and a "Bulldog".

COULD that be our shotguns? Does anyone know anything, maybe something official about that issue?

[Ryusai 10]

dont think there is any shotgun default

[marksinnerdemon 11]

No shotguns by default, and honestly i have yet to see many people who are in the military complaining about missing shotguns, as they aren't a very useful tool. They have limited applications especially in the terrain settings in game. While I know many people are all hurt about them missing frankly, the addons seem to be pretty good (great job on them), and honestly I would rather see bohemia take the 3GL and put some breaching style rounds in that.... except we can't breach doors yet. Shoothouses mod will though and I expect the mods to get to that first before this. Frankly the aircraft complaints, and just about every other thing would be a priority over a weapon platform that is basically not even in play with the military at this point, and is about freaking useless against armored personel compared to a rifle round. I know some of you will want it but honestly I highly recommend the mods in this case they did a good job and deserve it if you really gotta have a shotgun.

[Elena 2]

Yeah, right, we don't need real Shotguns in any usual war in todays' understanding. But this is the Future, and in the Future, Wars will be fought in the Sky, on the Oceans, and by Special Forces. Classic Infantry and Armour are merely placeholders to be able to effectively secure and hold your ground. We do not fight for more or less slices of a country, we fight for objectives alongside a frontline which is highly dynamic.

Urban Combat and breachings will be important, and aswell as Special Forces - nowadays - use SMG's and MP's rather than Assault Rifles, they are using Shotguns for their CQB-Approaches. The Benelli M4 Mods are great, and i'm not talking against you, but saying that Shotguns are absolutely useless in a war, thats wrong. Even nowadays in Iraq, a great amount of US Soldiers use the 870 MCS rather than their M16/M4 Rifles in the Urban Zones.

Now, i'd like to steer Back to Topic: Two Render-Images of Shotgun Weapons appearing in an official Guide about ArmA 3. I'm not asking BIS to make some, and i'm not asking if some are Ingame, because i know there are none yet. What i was wondering about is, if BIS is already planning on bringing them ingame, anyways, and if so, how and when. Because nowhere in this Guide is it mentionned, that these Guns come from Mods, while everywhere else (e.g. in the Wounding Section) he states that "some mods" add these features.

Should there be any Mod including these two Shotguns, please tell me which, as i'd love to try it out. For now, i know there are two Mods featuring the benelli M4, and one for the 870 MCS. In Alpha state, there was a Mod for the KelTec KSG, but that somehow disappeared.

[R0adki11 3949]

Now, i'd like to steer Back to Topic: Two Render-Images of Shotgun Weapons appearing in an official Guide about ArmA 3. I'm not asking BIS to make some, and i'm not asking if some are Ingame, because i know there are none yet. What i was wondering about is, if BIS is already planning on bringing them ingame, anyways, and if so, how and when. Because nowhere in this Guide is it mentionned, that these Guns come from Mods, while everywhere else (e.g. in the Wounding Section) he states that "some mods" add these features.

I would imagine we may see these shotguns in one of the two next free DLCs

[scrim 1]

Yeah, right, we don't need real Shotguns in any usual war in todays' understanding. But this is the Future, and in the Future, Wars will be fought in the Sky, on the Oceans, and by Special Forces. Classic Infantry and Armour are merely placeholders to be able to effectively secure and hold your ground. We do not fight for more or less slices of a country, we fight for objectives alongside a frontline which is highly dynamic.

Urban Combat and breachings will be important, and aswell as Special Forces - nowadays - use SMG's and MP's rather than Assault Rifles, they are using Shotguns for their CQB-Approaches. The Benelli M4 Mods are great, and i'm not talking against you, but saying that Shotguns are absolutely useless in a war, thats wrong. Even nowadays in Iraq, a great amount of US Soldiers use the 870 MCS rather than their M16/M4 Rifles in the Urban Zones.

What? No sense made...

On topic, regardless of anyone's feeling about if shotguns are useful today, the issue is that they were displayed as being part of the game, and should thus be included. Which I'm guessing they will be along with other things in the future.

[Elena 2]

What? No sense made...

What exactly doesn't make sense for you? I'll do my best to explain.

[scrim 1]

1, Wars are already fought in the sky and oceans, and by special forces. Just those three combined, and it's already been like that for almost a hundred years already. Infantry and armour are anything but "placeholders", nor will they be for any foreseeable time time. They are the backbone of every military in the world, and without them a war cannot be won. The most advanced military on the face of the Earth, the US one, wouldn't have won in Iraq even without infantry and armour, and that's something that just won't change.

2, Objectives have not substituted ground. Objectives are taken because by doing so, you gain ground. It's been like that for thousands of years.

3, Urban combat won't be much more important in your average war than it already is.

4, Special forces do not use SMGs and shotguns rather than assault rifles. Ever since the development of assault rifles started, it's been going the other way.

5, There aren't very many American servicemen carrying shotguns in Iraq instead of their rifles or carbines for two reasons. 1, They are no longer in Iraq. 2, When they were, the few that did were pretty much around 1 man per platoon, because a shotgun is a close quarters weapon, that is useless compared to assault rifles at more than a hundred meters even with a good shot.

[Pvt.Reaper 8]

Yeah I have to agree what shotguns aren't going to be very useful in ARMA 3's terrain because it mainly focuses on long-medium range engagements, shotguns in most cases are only useful in close quarters. Maybe if ARMA 3 was taking place in a map with a major city or an island with thick foliage like a forest or jungle where close quarters battles would be more common then shotguns would be useful, but even in those enviroments I would rather have a rifle or SMG just in case I needed to fight enemies at a long range. Plus from most of the videos I've seen shotguns are used more to breach doors than in combat.

Edited November 18, 2013 by (2142)Gen.Reaper

[Elena 2]

You might be talking about asyncron warfare. A Superpower such as the US, versus a Guerillia-esque Force of "Terrorists" - What use would usual Infantry have in a War between two superpowers? They can defend Bases, and act as targets for Special Forces and Strikes, nothing else.

Objectives are Informations, Datas, Objects. Not any ground. Stealing sensible Data about the Enemys' Troop Movement within a Special Forces Raid can get you to win the Battle, without even seizing a single Meter of ground from the Enemies.

Cities will be in the Focus much more, in the Future. You cannot launch Airstrikes of Naval Gunfire on an inhabited City. Special Forces on the run there. And with any Force i'm aware of, MP's and Shotguns gain more and more popularity. Not takling about conventional Forces here, such as the Berets or Army Rangers. I'm talking about Commando and Strike Forces, Seals, KSK etc. We are personally issued with MP5 variants, Benellis Shotguns, and only a few use the G36C Carabine, the G36 Long versions ain't put in use at all. Also, the US is still very presend in the middle East, and i've seen sqauds of Soldiers with an equal amount of Shotgun- and Rifle-Users, along with one or Two Gunners and a Grenadier.

@R0adkill: That are awesome News, "i would imagine" i'm going to be happy as hell if these come out!

[marksinnerdemon 11]

Elena - I don't know what information source you have, where you are getting that crap, but it is just that. Shotguns, Sub-guns have fallen off like a leprosy ridden appendage. I also don't know who you are claiming to be, but I can't think of a European entity that mass issues either the MP5, or shotgun except to law enforcement. Add to that the abysmal performance of both platforms in comparison to any assault rifle, and you can make those really short even if they loose some effectiveness, they are on teh way out. Add to that the epic failure of the PDW and it's round on and off the field.

Now lets look at the "special forces" family of combatants. They never will replace infantry, nor are they capable of doing nearly what you imply. Being amazingly effective and skilled is great but good special forces represent less then 1% of all combat arms in most nations. With that said there mission is highly dependent on the fact the SF come in do something that allows a opening for Armored, and infantry assets to move in and secure. I don't care how good 1 navy seal is, left alone, with only a weapon it would be hard pressed for him to kill 100 soldiers who are aware.

I wouldn't even debate this with you since you have no reasonable understanding of the topic, but after getting a SF medic trying to join our unit (Caught him in a lie pretty fast) I think the reality of the shotgun desire, and your comments should be talked about. Research submachinegun DocGKR, and look at shotgun paterns at distance you will see shot pattern from a standard military barrel that allows buck and slugs reduces its potency pretty fast down to 32 acp at some close distances. Mind you they are still deadly and extremely nice at contact ranges, but Most very old designed plates can resist even slug rounds with no problems, much less buck shot.

I am sorry for derailing this, and I do expect shotguns but the need for them is limited to almost nothing, right next to unsuported SF with no infantry to hold territory, or advance and use the advantage given by SF.

[scrim 1]

What use would usual Infantry have in a War between two superpowers? They can defend Bases, and act as targets for Special Forces and Strikes, nothing else.

Everything else. They are still the people who take the objectives, fight the battles, etc.

Objectives are Informations, Datas, Objects. Not any ground. Stealing sensible Data about the Enemys' Troop Movement within a Special Forces Raid can get you to win the Battle, without even seizing a single Meter of ground from the Enemies.

So after the SF guys carry out a Call of Duty-esque raid where they steal "that one computer detailing the bad guy army troop movements and plans", who's gonna fight that battle if you don't have infantry or armour? And the concept of racking up body counts was thoroughly disproved in Vietnam, a counter insurgency conflict; It's very much more unlikely that it'd actually work in a conventional war.

Cities will be in the Focus much more, in the Future.

Why?

You cannot launch Airstrikes of Naval Gunfire on an inhabited City.

Yes, you can. Lend me an airforce and/or a navy and watch me.

Special Forces on the run there.

Eh, no. When Bravo 2 Zero tried to make their getaway through a minor city only facing armed locals and rag tag police, they got shot to pieces and captured without killing a single enemy. Somehow I feel that indicates that running around in a major city won't work any better, and that's without introducing missions to carry out.

We are personally issued with MP5 variants, Benellis Shotguns, and only a few use the G36C Carabine, the G36 Long versions ain't put in use at all.

Ah. So you're a Navy Seal?

Also, the US is still very presend in the middle East, and i've seen sqauds of Soldiers with an equal amount of Shotgun- and Rifle-Users, along with one or Two Gunners and a Grenadier.

Not in combat zones. The only active combat zone they're in is Afghanistan, and that's in Asia. And no, you haven't.

[Elena 2]

Ah. So you're a Navy Seal?

Negative, i'm a german Navy sailor, and in a position that i have regular contact with SEK-M and Marine Boarding Teams. Not claiming to be one myself, nor did i say that i have to do anything with SEALs. But that should be pretty clear when i stated "G36", since i haven't heard of SEALs walking around with that gun much. Also, lets' not bring Call of Duty in here, i honestly am not really convinced on your maturity here. "Stealing a Computer to find the bad guy" sounds a bit too much like CoD BF-ish stuff or B-Class War Movies to me, rather than reality. I am talking about Informations, which can be posessed in hundreds of possible ways not involving CoD-esque shoot 'em Up-Raids.

Not in combat zones. The only active combat zone they're in is Afghanistan, and that's in Asia. And no, you haven't.

Middle-East doesn't really focus on africa only, and i never mentionned Africa. How do you want to know i haven't?

My Point is - and remains - clear, Shotguns do have a place in Battle. In Special Roles, of course, but i never said anything else. They have stopping power, they have breaching power, and

[Smurf 12]

Shotguns will come in the "The Doors" DLC, which will fix the action menu when using doors (not opening the one behind you, for example),,doors will be lockable and breachable with the news shotguns.

[Elena 2]

Shotguns will come in the "The Doors" DLC, which will fix the action menu when using doors (not opening the one behind you, for example),,doors will be lockable and breachable with the news shotguns.

While i highly doubt that, it would be really cool. Although, i think, there existed a Breaching-Mod in ArmA 2, which made doors close on Mission start, and they bursted open when shot. Might as well works in A3, once someone makes it. *hopes*

[scrim 1]

Negative, i'm a german Navy sailor, and in a position that i have regular contact with SEK-M and Marine Boarding Teams.

So you're a sailor, with limited contact to people who maybe once in a twenty year career actually load their weapons with live rounds and board a ship with people on board who might shoot at them. Yeah, super SF first hand knowledge you're sitting on right there.

Also, lets' not bring Call of Duty in here

That was brought up because your description of how special forces operate and influence conflicts was completely on par with CoD.

Middle-East doesn't really focus on africa only, and i never mentionned Africa. How do you want to know i haven't?

The Middle East is neither Africa nor Afghanistan. How the heck did Africa even come up? I certainly didn't mention it. For someone claiming to know so much about these things, you're really bad at geography. And I know you haven't seen American units in neither Iraq nor Afghanistan carrying a 1/1 ratio of shotguns and assault rifles because I'm not an idiot.

[fraczek 4]

Let's keep the discussion on Shotguns in Arma 3 and be more civil, could we? If you can manage, please.

As to the "topic" of SF and shotguns, why yes, they are used by some SF. I admit though the ones that list them publicly state it's a support weapon mostly just for breaching. And as for the PDWs, for example the MP7 is quite liked among some special LE units in Europe. Not exactly your typical LE, mind you.

But that is really quite offtopic for this discussion. As to their place in vanilla Arma3, I definitely think and hope BIS are gonna include some. Just for the variety of possible scenarios, especially public multiplayer, which gets hindered by any reliance on a number of small mods unlike system mods (ACE).

Edited November 18, 2013 by fraczek

[2nd ranger 282]

The game should include shotguns to widen the scenario options, as said above. In particular I think the civilian faction could benefit from having a shotgun, as currently there are no dedicated civilian weapons that differ significantly from those available to the military factions.