WW AICover

[gliptal 25]

Sure, I'm aware of this parameter. But Windwalking, by your design, is the AI suppose to start taking cover once enemy is only detected, and no shots are even fired?

Oh and thank you for a great mod!

Yes it's one of the latest feautures, and it works very well, at least on my end.

By th way, I have a strange behaviour in showcase Combined Arms: both Ghosthawks disappear as soon as the get 10-20 meters off the ground after unloading troops, right at the missions start. Apparantly it is not a BIS bug: could your Mod be the culprit?

Yay!

[GShock 10]

I am observing the AI behaviour of my squad from above the right hill in the infantry showcase mission. Without AICover it's really a wasted game, with the AICover mod it's a good game. Things could be made a bit harder on the player if the AI was made to actually SPRINT for cover and do nothing else until they are in cover. What I am saying is that they go for cover as per intended mod but they go for it a bit too slow.

The way it is now, some go on overwatch while some others go for cover, that's not really appropriate. A human would rush for it instead while shooting back (if run) or even faster sprinting without spraying. It's an important detail I wouldn't like to see AI shooting from prone or crouched but still completely in the open. Don't know if it's possible but one thing is sure, ArmA3 can't be played without AICover mod. :)

[froggyluv 2136]

I agree GShock on all points. I think the problem that he can't override their Danger FSM to make them just bolt and sprint. If BI could help with this -it would be revolutionary.

[lucadena 10]

Two interesting videos to show how units really look for the first possible best hard full cover instead of dropping to the ground.

Ai thanks to WW is going in the right direction!

[teopini 10]

Looking good, AI is probably the most flawed detail in tactical games.

[Windwalking 18]

I agree GShock on all points. I think the problem that he can't override their Danger FSM to make them just bolt and sprint. If BI could help with this -it would be revolutionary.

You are right. Is there a ticket on that topic or should I start one? If we get enough votes BIS will listen surely.

[GShock 10]

We actually rarely have in ArmA a lone soldier, it's always a squad of soldiers. When one gets shot, ALL the squad should react to the threat and they should sprint to cover first and fire back next.

The AI needs to beef up on its human factor. Humans' first concern is to stay alive. Dropping down is applicable IF no cover is possible but this has to act at squad level, one thing that matters and it's not happening (I mean I did observe a lot but it doesn't happen) is a squad-based threat response.

In Infantry showcase your first threat is right ahead. Team drops down in cover because rocks and trees are everywhere but they don't all look at the same direction. An AI that answers a threat by squad is a lot more efficient but right now the AI still looks at the arch defaulted by its formation setting. Seeing from above, told you... that should be overridden by the mod so they react to the threat as a team (this is why ambush is so dangerous, because one draws attention of a squad by shooting from one direction and when they reply they get shot from another direction where they don't expect because they are REACTING to the threat from the 1st direction).

I think WW can easily see how things are going and finetune stuff in that showcase mission.

Take the right side of the squad and as soon as you reach the downed doc, detach and go up on the right, hide behind a rock and observe how the squad of AI teammates react to the 3-soldier patrol roght ahead of them.

Gotta credit the man his mod makes the AI 1000 times better than it is by vanilla ArmA 3.

EDIT: yes do the ticket!

[Windwalking 18]

Right now the AI do go to cover if a shot is fired on them when they didn't expect it. However you have to have TPW_EBS for that effect and many other to work.

[GShock 10]

I have and have been using tpw all along. :)

You can see the AI formation seems to prevail over the threat when they drop down and go to cover. I think in INF Showcase they are in Wedge and from above, in cover on the right side of the valley, I see some are prone and others behind rocks and trees but they are not facing forward. The prone guys are looking at the sides and not facing the threat.

The way I see it with my little understanding, is that this logic prevents the AI from facing the threat as a team. Does the script make them scatter and abandon formation?

[Windwalking 18]

New version with bug fixes

Version 1.54

• Turned off take cover routines from player joined groups for now. You can still turn it on from the config (Recopy config file for this)
  
• fixed the bug with leadership swapped in the group
  
• 
  

I do however ask that u do test the mod with ww_playerTeamSuppression set to 1 to get some feedback on how they behave if you are interested.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3047338/%40WW_AICOVER_v1.54.zip

---------- Post added at 09:34 ---------- Previous post was at 09:34 ----------

I have and have been using tpw all along. :)

You can see the AI formation seems to prevail over the threat when they drop down and go to cover. I think in INF Showcase they are in Wedge and from above, in cover on the right side of the valley, I see some are prone and others behind rocks and trees but they are not facing forward. The prone guys are looking at the sides and not facing the threat.

The way I see it with my little understanding, is that this logic prevents the AI from facing the threat as a team. Does the script make them scatter and abandon formation?

Actually the script makes them turn toward the sound/threat. I will see if its my mod or the damned danger FSM that is doing that.

[GShock 10]

.54 test on U2be here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GC5IY_xRi_A

Now it's an interesting analysis.

I am not equipped for video records so unless Steam has something which I am NOT AWARE OF, all I can use is an unregistered Fraps copy limited to 30" but as you can see there's things the AI does that don't just work. As I say, a vid shows more than just words. Naturally, you're not supposed to fix BIS' deficiencies with the AI but I hope this helps you out on the priorities about what you think you can fix, ww. Of course I'll help you in any way I can. :)

24": Order to attack is given and all AI engages at once. From my POV I could see the enemy but chose not to because I needed cover to record the vid. Lacey supposedly attacking the tgt specified by the leader.

29": only now the soldier in middle of the valley (I think it's Lacey but not sure) drops prone.

30"-32": look what happens as threat is not over and AI wanders cluelees out of cover...

31" to 47" the only soldier in my team who got killed is the one who is not in cover. Meanwhile the soldier who was tending to the doc and who was behind has joined back and is not in cover.

Finally as you see this last soldier is also killed because of not going in cover.

Priority to save life in combat is to be in cover and only then start shooting back.

This vid taken with TPW full bundle and .54 WWAICOVER ELITE difficulty level. Notably at this level friendly AI has 1 skill level while enemy AI has .85 level. Despite that, the 3man enemy patrol is still there while 2 out of 5 (me being one of them) are dead in my team. Suppression is enabled as you asked. Hope this helps.

[Windwalking 18]

This is probably due to the fact that I made the AI not wait at cover to not spam "waiting...Ready" every few seconds. I can scene the effect is a dumber behavior. I just wish I have access to a truly silent move commands THAT ignores danger. Then I can make all sort of mods heh.

[Variable 322]

I think that a part of the problem is, that the mod start its effects over the AI immediately once an enemy is detect. If you could somehow make it (I have no idea whatsoever if it's possible) so that the effects kick in only when AI switch to "Danger" mode, it will alleviate some of the difficulty with AI management while advancing to contact, rather than the engagement phase.

[lucadena 10]

w_playerTeamSuppression = 1 test.

For what I see, when player is in the team (as a leader or not), the team doesn't use WW cover at all.

EDIT: if the player is leader, the team uses cover routines. If the player is not the team leader, the team act like vanilla.

Edited September 29, 2013 by lucadena
more tests

[GShock 10]

w_playerTeamSuppression = 1 test.

For what I see, when player is in the team (as a leader or not), the team doesn't use WW cover at all.

EDIT: if the player is leader, the team uses cover routines. If the player is not the team leader, the team act like vanilla.

Not exactly as Vanilla.

If you play Vanilla in that mission you'll see the members of the squad who are still alive after reaching the "crossroad" ahead in the valley will take a turn on the left. They are running like there is no danger and get easily wasted.

If you play WWAICOVER mod, they WALK slowly and you generally arrive at that crossroad with more team members alive. They might not prioritize the cover but they're still AWARE.

You can't actually pick in this mission to be a leader. You're always the grenadier and in this scenario, with and without AICOVER the AI behaves completely different (assuming WWAICOVER is always associated to TPW). Try Infantry Showcase, it's very evident (and it's better so we're both on the same frequency).

[gliptal 25]

I can confirm that even with the parameter on 0 friendly AI is much better than vanilla, since I never used it on 1.

Yay!

[lucadena 10]

Yes I can confirm that the mod is working even if player is not squad leader.

when player is squad leader, units go to cover, then immediately get in formation, then again go to cover if needed.

[Windwalking 18]

Yes I can confirm that the mod is working even if player is not squad leader.

when player is squad leader, units go to cover, then immediately get in formation, then again go to cover if needed.

Did you copy the new user config file?

[lucadena 10]

Did you copy the new user config file?

Yes I did, and changed to 1 the option to have effect on player team :)

Unfortunately I will have less time from now on to test the mod, as I am moving to the university apartment :(

[Windwalking 18]

Yes I did, and changed to 1 the option to have effect on player team :)

Unfortunately I will have less time from now on to test the mod, as I am moving to the university apartment :(

Thanks for all the help before. Do enjoy college :)

[GShock 10]

Considering that a grenade in the group would kill many teammates and that it's easier to hit multiple targets when they are stacked together, I think the mod could help a lot if the AI were allowed to break formation in presence of a threat. That is the best way to make it possible for them to find cover... and it excludes the chance that more than 1 trooper may duck behind the same rock which is too small. If the "Clear" signal by the leader is something... that should be the signal to make them come back to formation and they shouldn't change behavior and get out of cover unless ordered to move (flanking) or given the clear signal.

Dunno I hope you come with a solution, WW. :)

[gliptal 25]

The best solution would be to allow the group to break formation, but keep the commanding player as a reference for general movement. Please keep the bounding overwatch behaviour the AI has now though.

Yay!

[GShock 10]

Taking example when you are leader.

The player is not so keen on telling the squad who to engage, one by one. That's something automatic... everyone engages whoever he has in his field of view. I think when the AI leader gives an engagement order something goes wrong in the AI at the squad level. That function, disabled, could also help a lot WW's efforts to keep the AI facing the threat and fighting exclusively under cover.

Look at the Infantry Showcase mission. A bullet is fired before the bend and the whole team stops out of cover and goes on "scan the horizon". That is not appropriate. The team must go to "scan this direction" and that's gotta be the direction the firing sound came from. It's another potential problem and maybe why those 2 soldiers came out of cover in my video when the threat was still present (but presumably they couldn't see any enemy).

Overwatch and suppression are secondary in a one shot - one kill game such as this: priority is always to stay alive and it takes cover for that.

[Guest]

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WW AICover v1.54



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[lucadena 10]

Thanks for all the help before. Do enjoy college :)

Thanks! I'll stick around the forum and will surely keep following the progress of your great mods :)