Water simulation, visual and physical

[GranolaBar 10]

Guys, can you test a thing, open all the doors [of the Ifrit] and go in the water.

Water enter in the vehicule ( as change of view as a normal soldier under water) or the invisible wall stop water ?^^ :butbut:

Edited July 4, 2013 by MadDogX
no need to write in a all bold font. / added context

[maddogx 13]

Guys, can you test a thing, open all the doors and go in the water.

Water enter in the vehicule ( as change of view as a normal soldier under water) or the invisible wall stop water ?^^ :butbut:

Will most likely have no effect, since water isn't actually "stopped" by anything. When your head is below the water line, a full screen shader effect is applied, no matter if you're in a vehicle or not - that's Arma3's "water simulation" in a nutshell. ;)

[Anachoretes 10]

r the invisible wall

You just need to drive with open doors to realize - this is geometry without physic. Just need to add holes in old p.body and maybe add something to door(to avoid ghost effect).

And water ignores this.

[runekn 3]

Guys, can you test a thing, open all the doors and go in the water.

Water enter in the vehicule ( as change of view as a normal soldier under water) or the invisible wall stop water ?^^ :butbut:

When viewed firstperson inside the vehicle, no water.

When viewed outside the vehicle, water goes into the Ifrit.

[Anachoretes 10]

no water.

Nope. You camera just not affected by water shader. Move deeper.

[runekn 3]

Nope. You camera just not affected by water shader. Move deeper.

Im not talking about the shaders. Im talking about the actual physical water, with waves and stuff :)

EDIT: http://imgur.com/tW4WGVd,aHfgA3W,w0YVSTL#0

http://imgur.com/tW4WGVd,aHfgA3W,w0YVSTL#1

http://imgur.com/tW4WGVd,aHfgA3W,w0YVSTL#2

Edited July 4, 2013 by runekn

[purepassion 22]

Im not talking about the shaders. Im talking about the actual physical water, with waves and stuff :)

Huh? There is no "physical" water. It's all shaders. Or were you thinking it's simulated fluid which dynamically reacts to objects?

[runekn 3]

Huh? There is no "physical" water. It's all shaders. Or were you thinking it's simulated fluid which dynamically reacts to objects?

no no. I've added images, and I just answered his question the way I thought he meant it.

[Sneakson 1]

Huh? There is no "physical" water. It's all shaders. Or were you thinking it's simulated fluid which dynamically reacts to objects?

HHHHHHHUSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They mustn't know!

I wish Arma water would look and act like this though:

http://www.thesangreal.net/gafpics/boat.gif (2873 kB)

[maddogx 13]

Im not talking about the shaders. Im talking about the actual physical water, with waves and stuff :)

That's another aspect of Arma's rendering process. First, the environment is rendered (including the water surface/waves) and then the player's vehicle is rendered on top of that. (This only affects 1st person view.)

This is probably done to make sure nothing is seen to "clip" through a vehicle's geometry (such as tall grass clipping through the vehicle floor), but it also has the effect that water will never be drawn inside a vehicle in first person view.

[runekn 3]

This is probably done to make sure nothing is seen to "clip" through a vehicle's geometry (such as tall grass clipping through the vehicle floor), but it also has the effect that water will never be drawn inside a vehicle in first person view.

And try to put a crate in the back of offroad truck and look at it from driver seat.

[gliptal 25]

Shaders or not, I think graphic-wise water is one of the best feauters of ArmA III, I really like how it looks...

Yay!

[GranolaBar 10]

Huh? There is no "physical" water. It's all shaders. Or were you thinking it's simulated fluid which dynamically reacts to objects?

A semi-physical water will be good but, i think in Arma 4^^

[maddogx 13]

And try to put a crate in the back of offroad truck and look at it from driver seat.

Yup, this is another unfortunate side effect. In fact, it might be worth creating a ticket asking for any attached objects to be rendered in the second/internal pass instead of the environment pass. :)

A semi-physical water will be good but, i think in Arma 4^^

An extremely simplified visual simulation might be possible.

[runekn 3]

Yup, this is another unfortunate side effect. In fact, it might be worth creating a ticket asking for any attached objects to be rendered in the second/internal pass instead of the environment pass. :)

uuuhhh, I think you know the tecnical details a bit better than me, you do it. :rolleyes:

[GranolaBar 10]

An extremely simplified visual simulation might be possible.

I send you you to work on that ^^ or a fan who want's it to help dev^^

My old topic about this crappy surface :

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?155671-Water-Surface-Give-your-Suggestion&highlight=water+surface

Edited July 4, 2013 by GranolaBar

[Sneakson 1]

Yup, this is another unfortunate side effect. In fact, it might be worth creating a ticket asking for any attached objects to be rendered in the second/internal pass instead of the environment pass. :)

An extremely simplified visual simulation might be possible.

I think Hydrophobia had a somewhat advanced water simulation though simulating an ocean would be difficult.

[maddogx 13]

I think Hydrophobia had a somewhat advanced water simulation though simulating an ocean would be difficult.

Physically simulating the ocean would be total overkill and is probably impossible performance-wise. For simlation purposes, the ocean can be treated as an infinite and static body of water, more or les as it is now. (With the exception of surface waves, and perhaps underwater currents, both of which can be simulated quite abstractly/simplified for performance purposes.)

As for water entering vehicles, I think this could be done in a fairly abstract manner by teaching the engine a couple of things:

1. Add a new geometry LOD to vehicles which represents their internal open space. (The volume of this space becomes important when water enters the vehicle.)
   
2. Give vehicles a "water volume" value, which represents the amount of water that has entered the vehicle. (Defaults to zero, obviously.)
   
3. Define "openings" (let's call them "portals") where water might enter a vehicle. These portals need a physical location on the vehicle, aswell as an "open/closed" state that can be tied to the animation or damage state of different parts of the vehicle's geometry. (For example, when a car's windshield is destroyed an associated "windshield" portal is switched to "open".)
   
4. When an open portal is fully or partially submerged under water, the vehicle will begin to take on water. (I.e. its "water volume" value will begin to increase.)
   
5. Water streaming into the vehicle can be visualised with a simple particle effect emitted from the submerged open portals.
   
6. The water level inside the vehicle can be visualized by rendering an upward facing plane bisecting the vehicle's "open space geometry". Once this plane is higher than the player's eye level, apply water shader effect.
   

Edited July 5, 2013 by MadDogX

[Anachoretes 10]

DX11 have "hs-tesselation-ds" to help with some water interactions. But, its a lot of work.

[sofianebilal 10]

yes I agree, it would be nice if it was like this demo

and it will facilitate the task for the simulation of storm !

[marcai 1]

yes I agree, it would be nice if it was like this demo

and it will facilitate the task for the simulation of storm !

I'm a total fanboy of water animation for some strange reason, and that is beautiful. I think it's now out of reach of the Arma team to get something like this implemented without being a massive time sink, but damn would that be pretty.

[zooloo75 834]

That's another aspect of Arma's rendering process. First, the environment is rendered (including the water surface/waves) and then the player's vehicle is rendered on top of that. (This only affects 1st person view.)

This is probably done to make sure nothing is seen to "clip" through a vehicle's geometry (such as tall grass clipping through the vehicle floor), but it also has the effect that water will never be drawn inside a vehicle in first person view.

How about attaching a grass-cutter to the bottom of the vehicle when in first person?

Also aside from this, do say3D for a vehicle while in first person and it sounds very quiet as if it's played from outside. Do it in 3rd person and it's louder. It's been like that since ArmA2 (possibly before then too). It would be nice to have say3D applied to a vehicle emit at normal volume if the player is in first person whilst inside.

[bigpickle 0]

water feels very static to me, maybe when the weather works properly the water will become more life like.

[GranolaBar 10]

As, i say in my older topic; A pack of problems met in addition to the problem of camera known: Whatever the power of the waves, the character does not move vertically, it's just a visual effect. For cons, the physics of ship is managed and that will lower or rise well with the wave (no problem). By against wave with or without a boat irradiated at the same speed. And the most known bug: KA-60 bounces without losing speed in contact with water.

(http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?155671-Water-Surface-Give-your-Suggestion&highlight=water+surface)

Nobody says, if a team of fan could built easily a nice water for Real Virtual Engine 4 ? I think that's the engine was so old.

[sofianebilal 10]

the problem is that the water in arma 3 is a simple texture that gives a relief effect, but in reality it is flat and static, and yet this problem due to aging engine! and it can affect a lot to the immersion