Userfriendly Editor?

[Alwarren 2767]

- many things that could make the game more fluid but "nooo if you want that, play CoD!"

Are we still talking about the editor? Because if not, this doesn't belong here.

I think Arma3 is getting better every day but for many of the above and further aspects there seem to be better solutions in other games/simulations. Why not adapt?

You gotta admit that is just a tad bit vague. So to rephrase Masharra's quesiton: For example?

[surfer 42]

I've posted some examples on how to improve the editor above. Most answers just explained that stuff can already be done but in a less intuitive way.

Since this is getting more into the direction of arguing and you guys seem to enjoy the editor so much I'm leaving this thread.

[Varanon 892]

I've posted some examples on how to improve the editor above.

These ?

- command interface

- voice acting and syntax

- object interaction

- many things that could make the game more fluid but "nooo if you want that, play CoD!"

That's a bit too vague to address. For example, what is object interaction ? command interface ? Are those editor subjects ?

voice acting ? You mean conversations ? I agree, those are not doable without any scripting, and the way they are scripted isn't very intuitive. For example, player-controlled characters need a script, AI controlled characters need an FSM, and if the character is controllable by both player and AI, then they need both. that's a tad bit convoluted and would definitely need some cleanup.

Most answers just explained that stuff can already be done but in a less intuitive way.

"Less intuitive" would imply that there was a possibility to make it "more" intuitive. You haven't given any possibility, just threw around some buzz words like "object interaction" and that's it, without even explaining what that is supposed to be.

Since this is getting more into the direction of arguing and you guys seem to enjoy the editor so much I'm leaving this thread.

Sigh... And I thought arguments would be the basis for any discussion. It seem you didn't want to hear arguments, just get confirmation for your ideas (without even stating those except in a few vague buzzwords).

[xendance 3]

Since everyone seemed to ignore my post, I'll ask you Varanon ;)

These ?

That's a bit too vague to address. For example, what is object interaction ? command interface ? Are those editor subjects ?

voice acting ? You mean conversations ? I agree, those are not doable without any scripting, and the way they are scripted isn't very intuitive. For example, player-controlled characters need a script, AI controlled characters need an FSM, and if the character is controllable by both player and AI, then they need both. that's a tad bit convoluted and would definitely need some cleanup.

Most answers just explained that stuff can already be done but in a less intuitive way.

"Less intuitive" would imply that there was a possibility to make it "more" intuitive. You haven't given any possibility, just threw around some buzz words like "object interaction" and that's it, without even explaining what that is supposed to be.

Sigh... And I thought arguments would be the basis for any discussion. It seem you didn't want to hear arguments, just get confirmation for your ideas (without even stating those except in a few vague buzzwords).

Is it possible to change the unit parameters for multiple units at the same time? Naturally the "grouped" menu would only show the common parameters, such as AI skill probably.

Is it possible to group multiple units under one commanding unit, or do I still have to drag the lines one by one?

Is it possible to sync multiple units to a trigger, or do I have to drag the lines one by one?

Afaik, the answer to all those is a "No".

Making it possible to edit multiple entities at once would do wonders on the user-friendliness aspect of the editor.

[Varanon 892]

Afaik, the answer to all those is a "No".

Since you already know the answer, why even bother to ask me ? Just to make a point ?

Making it possible to edit multiple entities at once would do wonders on the user-friendliness aspect of the editor.

I doubt that. Sure, it would make it better, but the amount of units you're usually dealing with isn't bit enough to warrant such a change (it will not work with the current type of workflow the editor uses).

What IMHO WOULD do wonders is a 3d editor... one can alwyas dream

[Alwarren 2767]

Making it possible to edit multiple entities at once would do wonders on the user-friendliness aspect of the editor.

It would improve it, but not having it doesn't break it.

[xendance 3]

Since you already know the answer, why even bother to ask me ? Just to make a point ?

I doubt that. Sure, it would make it better, but the amount of units you're usually dealing with isn't bit enough to warrant such a change (it will not work with the current type of workflow the editor uses).

What IMHO WOULD do wonders is a 3d editor... one can alwyas dream

Yes. Just to make a point. In order to silence the people who are "naaaaww the editor is fine as it is" ;)

And I'm pretty sure it would work with "current workflow the editor uses". Select units, hit modifier key and click on the unit where you want to connect/link/sync to.

Or: Select units, hit key to go to unit properties and it would display all common settings.

It's not rocket science.

It would improve it, but not having it doesn't break it.

Yes..... What's your point?

Edited July 4, 2013 by Xendance

[Alwarren 2767]

What's yours? The topic is "userfriendly editor". I say that being able to edit a multitude of units at once is fine, but not being able to doesn't make it user-unfriendly.

[xendance 3]

What's yours? The topic is "userfriendly editor". I say that being able to edit a multitude of units at once is fine, but not being able to doesn't make it user-unfriendly.

It makes it faster to edit missions, how is that not more user friendly than the current situation?

[Varanon 892]

Yes. Just to make a point. In order to silence the people who are "naaaaww the editor is fine as it is" ;)

Wel, it didn't bring your point across. It definitely doesn't silence anyone, because quite frankly, I spent much less time linking units to groups or synchronizing, than I do with other things (writing scripts, for example), and bulk editing of units is not much of an improvement either, especially if there are still individual things to edit (like unit names).

So, no, you didn't silence anyone and in fact by addressing me directly I will be more vocal now. Bulk editing is IMHO pointless in the Arma Editor, because the time you can save with that is negligible compared to other things, like writing scripts.

A 3d editor, on the other hand, would allow for more exact placement of units (and objects, have you ever tried to fit two sandbag fences together with nothing to go by but the icons ? )

And I'm pretty sure it would work with "current workflow the editor uses". Select units, hit modifier key and click on the unit where you want to connect/link/sync to.

Or: Select units, hit key to go to unit properties and it would display all common settings.

It's not rocket science.

It's not how the editor works, though.. you don't click on a unit to link to, you drag from one unit to the other.

In any case, bulk editing is a detail, with limited usability. And far off from the OP's points, too

[Alwarren 2767]

It makes it faster to edit missions, how is that not more user friendly than the current situation?

Read again. I didn't say it does not make it more user-friendly, I said that not having it does not make it user-unfriendly. Obviously there is always room for improvements, but just because you have to edit units individually doesn't mean the editor is broken. I wasn't saying anything else, things beyond that are your interpretation.

[xendance 3]

Read again. I didn't say it does not make it more user-friendly, I said that not having it does not make it user-unfriendly. Obviously there is always room for improvements, but just because you have to edit units individually doesn't mean the editor is broken. I wasn't saying anything else, things beyond that are your interpretation.

Ah, point taken. I never said the editor is broken though.

Wel, it didn't bring your point across. It definitely doesn't silence anyone, because quite frankly, I spent much less time linking units to groups or synchronizing, than I do with other things (writing scripts, for example), and bulk editing of units is not much of an improvement either, especially if there are still individual things to edit (like unit names).

So, no, you didn't silence anyone and in fact by addressing me directly I will be more vocal now. Bulk editing is IMHO pointless in the Arma Editor, because the time you can save with that is negligible compared to other things, like writing scripts.

A 3d editor, on the other hand, would allow for more exact placement of units (and objects, have you ever tried to fit two sandbag fences together with nothing to go by but the icons ? )

It's not how the editor works, though.. you don't click on a unit to link to, you drag from one unit to the other.

In any case, bulk editing is a detail, with limited usability. And far off from the OP's points, too

I never tried to "silence" anyone, I was just throwing few suggestions on the "how to make the editor better" pile.

[Varanon 892]

I never tried to "silence" anyone, I was just throwing few suggestions on the "how to make the editor better" pile.

Really ? That's how I interpreted this, though:

Yes. Just to make a point. In order to silence the people who are "naaaaww the editor is fine as it is"

I mean, I understand what you are trying to achieve, and in essence, I'm with you; i.e. the editor could be more user friendly in places. However, I don't think it should be a priority (your mileage may vary, of course), especially considering that a 3d editor (yeah, I know, that topic again) should be a much higher priority.

[4thRifles 10]

This game is not for kids. Kids do not like working for nice things. If you want nice things, work and script, then the outcome you have is a nice thing.

[doln 10]

The editor is user friendly. I do agree that Bohemia should add things like editing a units loadout in-editor, and adding standard stuff like setting a mission name and the respawn type in-editor, but other than that it's very user friendly. Learn to script. This is how game development works.

[marcai 1]

This game is not for kids. Kids do not like working for nice things. If you want nice things, work and script, then the outcome you have is a nice thing.

The editor is user friendly. I do agree that Bohemia should add things like editing a units loadout in-editor, and adding standard stuff like setting a mission name and the respawn type in-editor, but other than that it's very user friendly. Learn to script. This is how game development works.

I don't think anybody has said learning scriping is the issue. It's dull and time-consuming to learn the functions, but the argument throughout has been "it'd be nice for some more features and guidance from the program itself". Arguing that nobody asking for extra features and more intuitive usage isn't up for learning script is a rather baseless argument. As for "this is how game development works", I'm rather sure most game development companies use a far superior editor than the one that we have access to in Arma 3, to automate and increase user-friendliness for their devs.

[gossamersolid 155]

I don't think anybody has said learning scriping is the issue. It's dull and time-consuming to learn the functions, but the argument throughout has been "it'd be nice for some more features and guidance from the program itself". Arguing that nobody asking for extra features and more intuitive usage isn't up for learning script is a rather baseless argument. As for "this is how game development works", I'm rather sure most game development companies use a far superior editor than the one that we have access to in Arma 3, to automate and increase user-friendliness for their devs.

BIS uses this same mission editor we have to do their missions

So...

[marcai 1]

BIS uses this same mission editor we have to do their missions

So...

"Most". Nice reading comprehension there.

[gossamersolid 155]

"Most". Nice reading comprehension there.

We're talking about ArmA's mission editor and you are saying devs have better tools.

I could give two shits less what other devs for other games use. That statement is out of the scope of this discussion.

[Mirudes 1]

We're talking about ArmA's mission editor and you are saying devs have better tools.

I could give two shits less what other devs for other games use. That statement is out of the scope of this discussion.

Are you trying to derail this thread?

[marcai 1]

We're talking about ArmA's mission editor and you are saying devs have better tools.

I could give two shits less what other devs for other games use. That statement is out of the scope of this discussion.

An editor is exactly what we're talking about, and as such is the exact scope of the discussion. If you can't compare this game and this software to other software what can we do? Simply scream at our computers and hope it creates new games with whimsical brand new ideas for hardware that we cannot comprehend with methods unknown to mankind? I mean, really, is it such a crime to want slight improvements? I think I've made some rather reasonable points and benefits that an improved editor could bring and you join in to say "I don't give a shit because reasons".

[Mirudes 1]

Or for those that set the game to windowed mode and a 2nd monitor, just pan out of the frame..... ;)

I have a 2nd screen, though it is quite a bit smaller than my main screen. I run ArmA3 in fullscreen windowed with a browser on the 2nd screen for reference, works fantastic. :)

Though for whatever reason 2nd screens arent as common as they should be, so not really a solution for most people.

In my opinion, an Editor-internal text programm would contribute the most to mapping/editing convenience. So you wouldn't have to Alt-Tab to the desktop all the time (which is not a great issue, though).

The possibility to use a 2nd window --or just a splitter-- side by side, is another great idea.

I believe that it should be feasible to be context-sensitive, capable to use drag&drop and extendable through user addons (like the Editor-Updates or the before mentioned templates).

[reclusive7 10]

An editor is exactly what we're talking about, and as such is the exact scope of the discussion. If you can't compare this game and this software to other software what can we do? Simply scream at our computers and hope it creates new games with whimsical brand new ideas for hardware that we cannot comprehend with methods unknown to mankind? I mean, really, is it such a crime to want slight improvements? I think I've made some rather reasonable points and benefits that an improved editor could bring and you join in to say "I don't give a shit because reasons".

Could be a superiority complex, novices or those who game for fun not as part of their profession rely on content creators to keep their games current/fresh/alive, a better editor like many of the modern developers provide(with plugins that work with Maya/3DS/Adobe Products etc, and excellent support by way of accessibility and improved productivity) would render many of these superior beings to an equal level and may be shown up by "noobs", maybe that's the issue.

I find it strange that absurd features have made it into the dev cycle and take away resources and seldom is it that someone takes issue with that, but when someone suggest what's being suggested here, is met with such irrational opposition, very confusing.

[Masharra 10]

I find it strange that absurd features have made it into the dev cycle and take away resources and seldom is it that someone takes issue with that,

you must be new round these parts.. or simply looking in the wrong threads.

[reclusive7 10]

you must be new round these parts.. or simply looking in the wrong threads.

Are you just going to lurk my comments. "New around these parts" oh yeah my join date to these cancerous forums, yeah that's indicative of how long I've been supporting BIS, yep got me there, you're so smart it amazes me, you must be super popular and awesome here on the BIS forums, you should get a medal.