Request for removal of ability to fire weapons of attack helicopter when solo flying

[AntalopeAUT 10]

Dear Developers.

I have a quite simple request: Please be so kind to remove the Pilots ability to fire his weapons in any attack helicopter that has a dedicated gunnerseat.

Reasoning behind this: It is extremely obnoxious getting shot out of Vehicles or being attacked as Infanterist because some Pilots think it is totally okay cruising around the map and engaging each and everything without any distinction between friend and foe.

Furthermore it just shouldnt be possible to fire all weapon systems as Pilot when in flight, because he should be preccupied in the extreme with flying and keeping that thing airborne .

Say no to easymode rampaging "pseudo-Pilots" as they really diminish the teamwork factor on most, if not all MP maps.

Thanks for all your attention, you can go full flamewar now.

[blu3sman 11]

Sorry, no. It's only up to players not to 'diminish the teamwork factor on most, if not all MP maps'.

[Dark6-6 10]

#login adminpassword

#userlist

#exec ban playerid

Problem solved.

Lots of bad pilots. Communication, either over comms or marking your position with smoke is a good idea. If I'm fighting on an area for an extended time ill even mark my location and the area we are moving through just to avoid this. If they are horribly inept I will ask then that they go infantry and if they refuse I ban.

I am working on a training mission just for new pilots and players, which an extensive shooting range, all vehicles and gear, and enemy bases and patrols to engage.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk 2

[MissileMoose 10]

I completely agree. It would be nice to have a server side option to toggle manual fire, if a player is flying without an AI pilot.

I'm sure in many attack helicopters the pilot has access to all weapon systems, and I'm fairly certain that in some aircraft the pilot does commonly have command over certain weapons which he can utilise while flying. However to allow pilots in-game to utilise all weapons, as commonly as I see it occur, is completely outrageous.

Edited June 24, 2013 by MissileMoose

[progamer 14]

Dear Developers.

I have a quite simple request: Please be so kind to remove the Pilots ability to fire his weapons in any attack helicopter that has a dedicated gunnerseat.

Reasoning behind this: It is extremely obnoxious getting shot out of Vehicles or being attacked as Infanterist because some Pilots think it is totally okay cruising around the map and engaging each and everything without any distinction between friend and foe.

Furthermore it just shouldnt be possible to fire all weapon systems as Pilot when in flight, because he should be preccupied in the extreme with flying and keeping that thing airborne .

Say no to easymode rampaging "pseudo-Pilots" as they really diminish the teamwork factor on most, if not all MP maps.

Thanks for all your attention, you can go full flamewar now.

Why not allow the pilot to override the gunner in using weapons? I have had many incompetent gunners who would no fire on the target before it blows us out of the sky.

[MissileMoose 10]

Why not allow the pilot to override the gunner in using weapons? I have had many incompetent gunners who would no fire on the target before it blows us out of the sky.

I think the main problem is when players take it upon themselves to become both pilot and gunner, at the same time.

[Smurf 12]

I think the main problem is when players take it upon themselves to become both pilot and gunner, at the same time.

And what make the whole thing worst, they can be partially successful due the whole TAB locking based system.

These two threads are linked, if you solve the problem in one it should solve the other aswell: http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?157390-helicopters-to-overpowered-with-this-radar/

[progamer 14]

I think the main problem is when players take it upon themselves to become both pilot and gunner, at the same time.

For me I'm flying and I know were the AA or other threat is, the gunner completely ignores me and fires at something that's not a threat like some rifleman which allows the threat to take us out, when i could have pointed the helicopter at the target for a second fired and killed the target? Sometimes you need to have control over both, real life helicopters don't have flight controls for the gunner and weapons controls for the pilot for no reason, they all have there time and place.

Edited June 25, 2013 by ProGamer

[Masharra 10]

For me I'm flying and I know were the AA or other threat is, the gunner completely ignores me and fires at something that's not a threat like some rifleman which allows the threat to take us out, when i could have pointed the helicopter at the target for a second fired and killed the target? Sometimes you need to have control over both, real life helicopters don't have flight controls for the gunner and weapons controls for the pilot for no reason, they all have there time and place.

Its is called competence. One should not argue for the game to change for people instead one should educate their fellow pilots/gunners on proper target acquisition and prioritization.

If your game mode does not allow/encourage for proper teamwork then perhaps you need to

1. Give feedback to game mode developer so he can make it so

2. Edit game mode to make it so (if you have proper rights)

3. Suck it up.

4. Play something else.

I play gunner a few times and two of my missions are HEAVILY reliant on air support. The FAC is invaluable and air support and the ground team are totally reliant on it.

Actually thanks time to hit up the editor great mission popped up in my head.

[nmdanny 22]

I don't support removing 'manual fire' in the current state of the game,but I would be okay with a toggleable option to disable it, only if several changes were to occur:

1. Give the pilot access to the DAGR missiles and skyfire missiles, because they fire straight when unguided, and locking on targets with the DAGR is as simple as pressing Tab, a gunner isn't really needed for that.

2. Give the pilot access to the ASRAAM, again, it's very simple to lock on targets and there's no need for a gunner to do that, and a pilot is going to be more focused on the sky and focused on airborne threats, and it's simply a matter of facing the enemy aircraft and pressing tab to lock onto it.

(Don't remove those from the gunner's access, let them both have control over these systems.)

The bigger issue I see is that Air to Ground weapons are too simple to use because of them requiring tab and click.

There's an imbalance in the DAGR missiles specifically: the Blackfoot has 28 of them, they can be dumbfired(although not effectively since the pilot has no control), and they can be tab locked onto any ground vehicle.

Instead, they should be laser guided if there's a laser, otherwise dumbfired. The gunner, or any ground unit, would have the ability to manually point his laser designator at the target. It can be a building, vehicle, infantry, ground, anything - but it's not automatic like tab locking.

The pilot would then just click tab to lock onto the laser point itself, or the gunner can just shoot the missile directly and have it track his sight.(laser)

The Skalpel AG missiles should work like AG missiles in Mando's Missile mod for A2, the gunner would have to choose a suitable target by locating it with his sight and then pressing a button to lock onto it.

Give the OPFOR attack helicopter a different loadout with air to air missiles instead of the skalpel, and give the BLUFOR attack helicopter a loadout with Hellfire missiles(like in mando missile) instead of ASRAAMs.

[joschaap 1]

just remove/disable it from within the mission you're playing by editting it

[maddogx 13]

I guess a script command to enable/disable manual fire on any given vehicle would be ideal. This way mission designers could disable it if they so choose.

There is already a command (isManualFire) to check if it is currently active, so in theory it would already be possible to penalize it.

[kremator 1065]

Hmmm I can't remember now ... I know the pilot gets to see the radar with threats, but does the gunner too?

[byku 13]

Yes, the gunner also has a radar.

[EDcase 87]

What about only allowing manual fire of the cannon?

I doubt the pilot can fire weapons in a real chopper. If the gunner was killed or incapacitated they would certainly RTB.

Giving a pilot full control of all weapons does defeat the point of having a gunner seat.

I think the AH-9 (Little Bird Gunship) should stay the way it is with pilot having full weapons control.

Edited June 25, 2013 by EDcase

[byku 13]

Yes, in modern gunship the pilot can take role of the gunner(although not in 100%[guess], couse he still has to pilot the helicopter), and the gunner of the pilot.

[Mattar_Tharkari 10]

Most helicopters have more or less dual controls - read up on it. In most cases the pilot can fire some/all of the weapons and the gunner can also fly the aircraft. E.g. in the apache:

Both sections of the cockpit include flight and firing controls in case one pilot needs to take over full operation.

Edited June 25, 2013 by Mattar_Tharkari

[doveman 7]

I think I agree that it should be a server-option to restrict the pilot's access to weapons, partly to make it less easy for a single player to get in a helo and kill loads of targets but also to encourage players to team up with a gunner.

I'm not sure on the exact balance though. As NMDANNY says, it makes sense that the pilot can fire some of the weapons himself but not others, or that they're far less effective without a gunner painting the target (and probably firing the weapons as well).

[EDcase 87]

Yes, in modern gunship the pilot can take role of the gunner(although not in 100%[guess], couse he still has to pilot the helicopter), and the gunner of the pilot.

Well its OK the way it is then ;)

[kremator 1065]

One thing people aren't getting .... it's 2035 ! All things are possible then!

[Smurf 12]

On a related subject, the pilot should have control over unguided weapons such as rockets from the start.

[AntalopeAUT 10]

Nice discussion so far, thanks for the input gentlemen.

My main gripe is/was mostly the typical "beginner" ArmAholic coming from other games where it is common use to fly solo and ignore any chat directed at one.

Good tip about the script ability to check for gunners/the lack of and to disable manual fire mission sided.

Sadly I am no admin on any server as I would require people to have the decency to either use TS/VoIP/Chat functions to announce strafing runs or get out of aerial attack vehicles, but many of the aforementioned newcomers seem unable to read or just ignorant of it.

Plus: I have given up on educating ignorant people and am absolutely not loathe to ask any admin (if there is one available, otherwise I will try to get people to vote for one, but you know that can be as hard as herding a bunch of wet cats) to remove people that are harmful to their own troops on the ground, but still am helpful to people that ask for things the old-fashioned way.

So far, fire safely :)

[kocrachon 2]

Yeah I agree with the server side option for turning off manual fire, especially when I run my CTI server.