Under Suppression Fire Effect

[Enricksolt 12]

This is just the first concept i've made for a suppression fire effect. This don't effect the AI in any means, it just add a visual effect on the player while he is under fire and decrease the players accuracy.

I've took inspiration from RO2.

[antoineflemming 14]

As I said in the video comments, it's nice, but a little too extreme. The grayscale should instead have some color, but desaturated.

[Enricksolt 12]

I can agree on decrease the amount of the desaturation effect a bit, but not on the blur strength. It has to be extreme since this is made for not let the player respond easily to fire while under suppression.

[lordprimate 159]

Nice, but i also agree the effect is to drastic. I prefer TPWCAS for my suppression effects, Its perfect. Especially since it affects ai as well.

Add some cam shake/wobble, reduce the Grey effects and blur.(so, effects are short and quick)

[antoineflemming 14]

I can agree on decrease the amount of the desaturation effect a bit, but not on the blur strength. It has to be extreme since this is made for not let the player respond easily to fire while under suppression.

Camera shake will offset that. I say that because I want the effect to be as realistic as possible. And it's not realistic that your vision get's extra blurry when being shot at. Camera shake will stop the player from responding easily to fire. And I agree with the above, the effect should have a short duration, but should happen the moment you're shot at. It'd also be a very good indicator of being shot at. But great work so far!

[Enricksolt 12]

Well, it last long for a reason. In the way i've made it, when a bullet comes near you it adds suppression on you and that's why you don't get fully suppressed after a couple of shots. In a example: if someone shoot 2-3 bullets, you become slightly suppressed and you get only a small amount of the effect, with half a magazine you become fully suppressed but you can recover pretty fast, and if a whole fireteam fire at you (like in the video), you become fully suppressend and take a long time to recover.

I've put a lot of blur and desaturation for a simple reason, in Arma 2 when someone is shooting at you trying to get you suppressed, even if it worsen your aim (at least in ACE), you can still easily peek out from your cover to see where the enemy is, it has happen a lot of time to me in PvP and Coop.

Long story short, the more they shoot atyou, the more you become unable to respond or to get the enemy position.

[antoineflemming 14]

Well, it last long for a reason. In the way i've made it, when a bullet comes near you it adds suppression on you and that's why you don't get fully suppressed after a couple of shots. In a example: if someone shoot 2-3 bullets, you become slightly suppressed and you get only a small amount of the effect, with half a magazine you become fully suppressed but you can recover pretty fast, and if a whole fireteam fire at you (like in the video), you become fully suppressend and take a long time to recover.

I've put a lot of blur and desaturation for a simple reason, in Arma 2 when someone is shooting at you trying to get you suppressed, even if it worsen your aim (at least in ACE), you can still easily peek out from your cover to see where the enemy is, it has happen a lot of time to me in PvP and Coop.

Long story short, the more they shoot atyou, the more you become unable to respond or to get the enemy position.

Ok. That sounds great. Still don't agree with the full desaturation (grayscale), but that sounds good. Can't wait to try it out.

[Enricksolt 12]

I've made another video for show you what i was talking about on the previous post. The more you get shot at, the more you become suppressed.

I've also add the camera shake, a sound effect while on fully suppressed (still in WiP) and reduced the desaturation a bit.

[wormeaten 0]

Good work.

There is space for improvements but I like it so far.

:cc:

[dimitri_harkov 10]

Very nice. Love it.

[metalcraze 290]

The vision getting blurred is not a good way to do this. Look at TPWCAS implementation. It slightly lowers gamma and adds camera shake preventing you from returning precise fire. That I think is a lot better way.

[Predator.v2 10]

I like the blur effect, but dont like the black and white screen.

It also takes too long to "recover" from full suppression (imo).

[antoineflemming 14]

I've made another video for show you what i was talking about on the previous post. The more you get shot at, the more you become suppressed.

I've also add the camera shake, a sound effect while on fully suppressed (still in WiP) and reduced the desaturation a bit.

Got just a small suggestion. Reduce the blur and desaturation a little bit more, and increase the camera shake effect. Then, I guess it's kinda more like GRFS suppression, but that would definitely keep you from responding to suppressive fire.

[Brain 12]

I like it, even tough it could be a bit reduced! Nice work!

[CodyGamer 1]

Got just a small suggestion. Reduce the blur and desaturation a little bit more, and increase the camera shake effect. Then, I guess it's kinda more like GRFS suppression, but that would definitely keep you from responding to suppressive fire.

This. Reduce the blur and desaturation and keep the time it takes to recover ( or just slightly reduce it by a second for full suppressed ) but also increase camera shake effect.

I say this because the person should be able to see a general area where the fire is coming from and lay down some "spray and pray" in order to get to safety or re-position. They shouldn't be able to accurately hit them, but should at least get the people assaulting force to jump back a little.

[chrisb 196]

I like it as it is progressing, blur is better than camera shake, I think, greyscale is o.k, I like that as well. But by the looks of things, your going to make the best decision as to how it should look, based on your present tests. Would be nice to have the rate/s of fire set by the player in the configs.

The second test there is pretty much right as I see it, but maybe if players want camera shake, could that be in the configs also, i.e. switch off/on.

It is shaping up to be a very nice effect, good luck with it, I will be looking forward to trying it out.:).

[bad benson 1733]

i really like it too. i actually would like to see some sound post process effects too. like a short dampening effect. i know things like that can easily be overdone but i personally like effects like that because they make taking fire give you more feedback and make it feel less sterile and more dirty. maybe you can even adopt some of the dirt effects used for when grenades explode close to you in arma 3 right now.

[antoineflemming 14]

I like it as it is progressing, blur is better than camera shake, I think, greyscale is o.k, I like that as well. But by the looks of things, your going to make the best decision as to how it should look, based on your present tests. Would be nice to have the rate/s of fire set by the player in the configs.

The second test there is pretty much right as I see it, but maybe if players want camera shake, could that be in the configs also, i.e. switch off/on.

It is shaping up to be a very nice effect, good luck with it, I will be looking forward to trying it out.:).

Not to debate, but how is grayscale realistic?

Anyway, would it be possible to have these things configurable in a userconfig folder? Say, the level of desaturation, the intensity of the camera shake, the intensity of the blur? That way, players could tailor it to their tastes.

[chrisb 196]

Not to debate, but how is grayscale realistic?.

Rates around the same as camera shake for realism.

Lets not derail this thread and great idea..:rolleyes:

[sqb-sma 66]

Rates around the same as camera shake for realism.

Lets not derail this thread and great idea..:rolleyes:

Agreed, we can't simulate the fear of getting shot, so we're already on the back foot realism wise! The point of this should rather be to tell you when you should, uh, think twice about popping up for a shot.

I love the blur (you're not going to be scanning for a target with bullets coming meters from your face), the camera shake is great too and fantastic work on the sound effect. I'm not a huge fan of the black/white, I think it should be a minor effect, but it's up to you man, either way this mod looks like a future must have.

[maturin 12]

Rates around the same as camera shake for realism.

Lets not derail this thread and great idea..:rolleyes:

Camera shake can be justified. Every heard of the expression 'shaking like a leaf?' Fear makes people twitchy, and camera shake models involuntary movements to drop your head and make yourself as small as possible, a universal fear response. This sort of activity interferes with the posture of shooting.

On the other hand, absolutely nothing can make your vision go blurry or black and white. That's pure fantasy. On the contrary, the adrenaline will heighten your senses, while making your motor fine functions less precise.

OP, have you considered momentarily changing the player's mouse control settings so they are more sensitive? Then there would be a quantitative difference between how you fire your weapon. Is this possible?

[chrisb 196]

Camera shake can be justified. Every heard of the expression 'shaking like a leaf?' Fear makes people twitchy, and camera shake models involuntary movements to drop your head and make yourself as small as possible, a universal fear response. This sort of activity interferes with the posture of shooting.

On the other hand, absolutely nothing can make your vision go blurry or black and white. That's pure fantasy. On the contrary, the adrenaline will heighten your senses, while making your motor fine functions less precise.

OP, have you considered momentarily changing the player's mouse control settings so they are more sensitive? Then there would be a quantitative difference between how you fire your weapon. Is this possible?

Fear, intense fear and extreme anxiety, possibility of dying, read up on this a little..

Can cause extreme sweating, disorientation, nausea, rapid heart beat, shaking (yes, I never said otherwise), loss of reasoning, even dizziness, these are just a few of the many things that can happen to us when we experience fear, let alone extreme sudden fear. Adrenaline may help, but you have got to be in control of what’s going on for it to make a difference.

This is about being suppressed by gunfire, not just being under fire, its different, that moment or two when all you can do is try and get out of the way, as you say, drop your head keep as small as pos.

We could not even come close to reproducing how that feels or what effect that moment or two has on our bodies, certainly not for a game. So camera shake, yes, blurred screen, yes, o.k. greyscale or b/w are just effects, but its all just effects, this isn’t real, its simply trying to understand how we can make a game portray that moment or two, when the body is put under the conditions mentioned above.

There can be the bravest of people that don’t get affected that much, they are few and far between. Then there are the normal everyday people like most of us on here, that would, if put in that position, for that few moments, be scared for our lives.

So why does blurred vision, compare with camera shake:

Exploring just one of the things mentioned above, sweating alone can be a real problem for vision, mix this then with dust debris from incoming shots hitting plaster, stone, brick, rendered surfaces in-fact more or less anything in a arid environment. Then the natural conditions that the human body will feel, as said above, just a few examples, ventilated goggles or glasses won’t help, possibly make it worse.

I don’t know how to portray fear for a game, you could simply black the screen out for a moment (not what I would like to see), but we just don’t know.

However what I do know; I live with pain 24/7, so I have an acute knowledge of fear of pain, even just briefly or momentarily, the fear of extreme chronic intractable pain (commonly known as breakthrough pain, neurological). When breakthrough pain begins, in those first few moments (seconds really) I can cold sweat, shake, wipe my face and eye's, this is just the fear of what is about to happen to me, even though I know what is going to happen and how bad its likely to be, I still get scared and my body reacts outside of my control. Not talking about pain here, just fear, a knowing fear, not life threatening, although the first time it happened to me I feared I was going to die, sounds self indulgent, but its not supposed to, just my take on fear, its really the only real fear I ever experience (luckily).

Now o.k. this can’t compare with being under fire, which I would have thought would be a much more intense sudden fear, never mind being suppressed by gun fire. That fear may only last for a few moments, until self preservation, not training, kicks in. Then perhaps you shift into remembering the training you were given and the reactions you should make to help keep yourself and indeed your comrades alive.

But its that few moments, may only be a few seconds, that the OP is trying to portray as an effect, which lets be honest can’t be portrayed properly, but there could be an endless argument of what that effect should be, or should look like. Shaking screen, blurred vision and many other things could be used, best let the OP decide that, he’s knows as much as the rest of us, but its his mod so he must of had a vision in mind, which is what we see in his tests, which to me look great.

Who are you to say blurred vision caused by intense sudden fear is fantasy, I'm sorry to say, but that’s just talking right out your rear end….

[maturin 12]

Okay, sweaty goggles has nothing to do with suppression. You sweat when you're hot, foremost, and fear is a distant second. And sweat stays on your googles. It doesn't suddenly appear when you're being shot at and then disappear the moment the fire stops. Which is why it's a poor rationale for disabling visual effects of suppression. As a mechanic, it wouldn't work. It's not that visual effects are that unrealistic, just that they won't function as well in gameplay. A black and white world is something out of an author's description of what combat feels like. It's either metaphorical or highly personalized.

Whereas, physical effects of head and hand movement are more generalized responses that have rational causes, not psychological ones which can't be modeled. You said it yourself: "I still get scared and my body reacts outside of my control." So your hands shake. Your eyes don't suddenly stop working. Anything is possible under great stress, but such reactions are not typical, and should not be presented as predictable and standardized. What's more, they are more abstracted and highly annoying.

Again, your examples favor my way of doing things. Pieces of dirt and masonry spattered up by bullet impacts? Unless you're going to model eye injury and blind players for minutes and hours, this is also a no-go. It would be extravagant to blur the screen because of this when you could just as easily have the player duck their head to avoid being hit in the face altogether. Then you have no issues of realistic injury and randomness of effects.

A game can't simulate pain and fear, what matters here is just the most likely response of a 3D avatar to pain and fear, in the least invasive way possible. And really, half of it is a reflex response, completely independent of the level of 'bravery' of an individual.

[bad benson 1733]

so are you really gonna try to argue some of the features of this away with another silly realism discussion? what matters is this

its his mod so he must of had a vision in mind

if he wanted he could add scary music. not each and everything has to be discussed to pieces under the same point of view.

aside from that. the "rules" you set here may be fine for you and what you want but they are yours not his.

A black and white world is something out of an author's description of what combat feels like. It's either metaphorical or highly personalized.

fear is a personal and abstract thing that has many effects on you that you can't easily describe. you can either go straight gameplay penalty or just open your mind and try something visual too. if some people can't handle some cinematic effects so be it. don't use the addon. besides. arma 3 has a nice effect for grenade explosions. is that totally wrong too because it "simulates" dirt pieces on your pupils?

physical effects of head and hand movement are more generalized responses that have rational causes, not psychological ones which can't be modeled.

just because some effects can be subjective doesn't mean no one is allowed to make a mod for them. and aside from that i'm sure there are lots of effects that would come close to blurriness when being shot at. blurriness can "simulate" disorientation. sure your vision might get brighter under the influence of adrenaline but you are also shaking, hyped up and your mind won't be focused but be more in a weird trance-like uncontrolled state. these are less mechanical effects that are as important as the stuff you can categorize if not more important when it comes to something like fear.

sure one could make a gameplay impact only addon but one could also do something else. and it seems like the authors focus is not only on making your aim worse. he didn't put B/W in there because he read it in some medical report about someone being afraid.

let him do his thing for christ's sake. there's a difference between constructive criticism and hijacking every thread with your personal agenda...

[chrisb 196]

Okay, sweaty goggles has nothing to do with suppression. You sweat when you're hot, foremost, and fear is a distant second. And sweat stays on your googles. It doesn't suddenly appear when you're being shot at and then disappear the moment the fire stops. Which is why it's a poor rationale for disabling visual effects of suppression. As a mechanic, it wouldn't work. It's not that visual effects are that unrealistic, just that they won't function as well in gameplay. A black and white world is something out of an author's description of what combat feels like. It's either metaphorical or highly personalized.

Whereas, physical effects of head and hand movement are more generalized responses that have rational causes, not psychological ones which can't be modeled. You said it yourself: "I still get scared and my body reacts outside of my control." So your hands shake. Your eyes don't suddenly stop working. Anything is possible under great stress, but such reactions are not typical, and should not be presented as predictable and standardized. What's more, they are more abstracted and highly annoying.

Again, your examples favor my way of doing things. Pieces of dirt and masonry spattered up by bullet impacts? Unless you're going to model eye injury and blind players for minutes and hours, this is also a no-go. It would be extravagant to blur the screen because of this when you could just as easily have the player duck their head to avoid being hit in the face altogether. Then you have no issues of realistic injury and randomness of effects.

A game can't simulate pain and fear, what matters here is just the most likely response of a 3D avatar to pain and fear, in the least invasive way possible. And really, half of it is a reflex response, completely independent of the level of 'bravery' of an individual.

I disagree with so much you say there, in-fact some of it is, well...

Not going to sidetrack the thread anymore..

OP you decide..