VME PLA MOD for ARMA III (WIP)

[Alex.XP 0]

Hello everyone, I will update VME PLA MOD for ARMA III news in this post.

2013-4-17:

New Type 95-1 (QBZ95-1) assault rifle model:

New Type 95-1B (QBZ95-1B) assault rifle model:

New Type 05 (QCW05) submachine gun model:

[astast 12]

Nice models! Looks very clean ;)

[[aps]gnat 28]

Yaa !!

[.kju 3245]

welcome back Alex.XP :bounce3:

[Kommiekat 11]

Good news Alex!

Please....don't leave out the Chinese voices. They really bring a lot into your mod!

[chortles 263]

I have a question regarding the Type 05 (QCW 05); are you considering using the 9 x 21 mm magazines and suppressor made by BI for Arma 3 (KoffeinFlummi's H&K USP 9 mm uses the 9 x 21 mm magazines and P07 sounds) or are you intending to create new fifty-round magazines and suppressors in 5.8 x 21 mm? The sight of the detachable suppressor in the QCW 05 pictures suggests the latter.

If you consider going with the thirty-round 9 x 21 mm magazines already in the Arma 3 alpha, have you considered instead creating the JS 9 mm without a carry handle and capable of using 9 mm MP5 magazines?

Also, it's up to you whether or not you would simulate "subsonic" ammo, but apparently that and the omission of an included suppressor are apparently the only differences between the QCW 05 and the QCQ 05? (Although apparently the CQC 05 is compatible with the Type 05's suppressor, but the CQC 05 is meant for/compatible with a different 5.8 x 21 mm cartridge called DAP92 -- also used in the QSZ 92 handgun -- while also being compatible with the Type 05's 5.8 x 21 mm DCV05 subsonic cartridge.)

[Hongjian 11]

Now, this is a project which I am looking forward to the most. Was following the VME forums and wondering how long it would take until the you publish it on the bis forums here.

The QBZ95-1 series are a nice touch and definitely I'd expect them to serve the PLA in the 2030 era virtually unchanged, as they did fix quite a lot complains and user-ergonomy problems of the basic QBZ95. On top of that, they also feature an improved 5.8x42mm round (DPB10 standarized, hardened armor piercing steel-core FMJ, 77gr) that would hold its own vs. to the 6.5x39mm intermediate rounds featured in ArmA3. Maybe in the next few years the PLA will switch to the picatinny stlye rail mounting system, but I'm not too sure about that, as self-reliancy and indigenous, proprietary standards still tops the PLA's priority list. And thus, the proprietary rail-mounting system would be, albeit sacrificing tactical flexibility, still used well into the 2030's... Especially if nearly all known optics can also made available for the proprietary rail system.

A question/suggestion from my side here; considering we are talking about the future 2035 PLA, maybe this mod could include the new Chinese future infantry weapons?

I am thinking about the ZH-05 "Strategy Rifle" (Or "Chinese OICW") for that matter:

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011/02/23/chinas-oicw-type-05-strategy-rifle-zh-05-5-8mm-20mm/

It is confirmed by the few official sources that this weapon is currently being tested by PLAN Marines deployed in the Anti-Piracy Mission off the coast of Somalia, and would be introduced into the PLA at large scale sometimes after.

It is pretty much a Chinese take on the OICW, as it is made of a 5.8x42mm full-lenght rifle section apparently based on the QBZ-03 conventional-layout rifle, and has a 20mm semi-automatic grenade launcher with computerized airburst grenades. All of it is weighting just around 5kg (unloaded), which indicates that China managed to fix one of the major problems the XM29 OICW was suffering under - maybe by sacrificing the bulky but advanced thermal-sight system fixed on the XM29 and replacing it with a lighter, detachable computerized telescopic sight.

A few pictures not shown in that link:

I think implementing this weapon should be possible, as ArmA2 already had a awesome airburst script, made by Zodd:

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=16791

demonstrating its devastating effect against infantry behind cover:

Even though the XM25 is experiencing problems at the moment, I do believe that airburst grenade launchers will be among the mainstay weapons of future warfare, and thus deserve a place in the ArmA3 universe.

[roberthammer 582]

Cool models - good luck with the project :)

[chortles 263]

Hongjian, I have linked photos of QBZ 95s or 95-1s using "Picatinny" rails and "Western-style" accessories, couldn't it simply be that the forces deployed in Stratis are currently all equipped with such rails while troops elsewhere use the standard proprietary rail?

[Heaney 11]

Awesome work so far!

Are you setting is as the PLA in 2013 or 2035?

[chortles 263]

No idea, but as Hongjian said, the small arms could go either way. The thing is, the PLA Infantry mod that's using A2 VME weapons is set in 2035.

[Hongjian 11]

The VME team is actually working on a 2035 era PLA.

And yeah, as for the rails, I do think that everyone, except PLA special forces are using the propetriary optics and rails. The PLA is still not allowing that much customization for their line-troopers, but special forces are often seen with foreign imported Eotech Holosights, ACOGs and other stuff.

[dysta 10]

Guys, we got good news and bad news:

The good news is, the 3D modeling is progressive going well, some weapon mods is into the testing phrase which is faster than we expected.

But the bad news is, we're into a very big argument of the ammo damage system, especially the 5.8x42mm kind. They're still debating and compare it to the NATO/Iranian 6.5x39mm ammunition.

[chortles 263]

In short, still trying to find "hard" real-world numbers for the real-world caliber to compare it to (I suppose against 5.56 x 45 mm which is in the alpha would be better than the fictional 6.5 x 39 mm versions that are in the game*) to decide the in-game properties for 5.8 x 42 mm? No idea if you plan a sidearm and/or a submachine gun in 5.8 x 21 mm or not.

* 6.5 x 39 mm caseless (NATO), 6.5 x 39 mm seemingly-non-caseless (Iranian Katiba and TRG-20/TRG-21), 6.5 x 39 mm machine gun (Mk 200), 6.5 mm Minigun...

[dysta 10]

No idea if you plan a sidearm and/or a submachine gun in 5.8 x 21 mm or not.

Yes, 5.8x21mm ammo is also available for QSZ-92 (5.8mm version) and QCW-05. The damage is as high as other ARMA 3 pistols, like 2 or 3 shots can take down a human target.

[Hongjian 11]

@Chortles

Wasnt the Katiba using the caseless version of the 6.5x39mm, and not the NATO rifles (except squad machine-gun)?

Well, I'd think that the future/modern PLA DBP10 5.8x42mm would be less powerful than the 6.5x39mm Grendel (1873J with a 77 gr 5.8x42mm bullet vs. 2633J with a 120 gr for the 6.5x39mm), while at the same time possessing marginally more velocity than latter (870m/s vs. 820m/s), and a better armor piercing capability due to its hardened steel-core (vs. lead core/mild steel core).

In the end, the 6.5x39mm is actually just a refined version of the venerable Russian 7.62x39mm for the Kalashnikov, so the endless debate M-16 vs. AK-47 should be quite similiar as this one here.

The greatest plus of the 5.8x42 vs the 6.5x39 IMHO is that former has a softer recoil. Maybe the VME crew could model this while giving the 5.8x42mm less overall health-damage, while more armor penetration against light skinned vehicles and body-armor.

[dysta 10]

Well, I'd think that the future/modern PLA DBP10 5.8x42mm would be less powerful than the 6.5x39mm Grendel (1873J with a 77 gr 5.8x42mm bullet vs. 2633J with a 120 gr for the 6.5x39mm), while at the same time possessing marginally more velocity than latter (870m/s vs. 820m/s), and a better armor piercing capability due to its hardened steel-core (vs. lead core/mild steel core).

In the end, the 6.5x39mm is actually just a refined version of the venerable Russian 7.62x39mm for the Kalashnikov, so the endless debate M-16 vs. AK-47 should be quite similiar as this one here.

The greatest plus of the 5.8x42 vs the 6.5x39 IMHO is that former has a softer recoil. Maybe the VME crew could model this while giving the 5.8x42mm less overall health-damage, while more armor penetration against light skinned vehicles and body-armor.

I like this idea, it sounds reasonable for smaller caliber with higher velocity, while bigger one bear with higher lethality. They're playing different roles just with few millimeters' differences.

For now, one of a mod developer decide to wait for an accurate damage system if the ACE mod is available.

[Hongjian 11]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y44glfLNd1I

Interestingly, this report (if correct) unveiled that the DBP-88 Heavy Round (used in the QBB-92 SAW and QJY-88 LMG) actually has a 6g bullet (92.6gr), which is 2g heavier than the standard DBP-95 round (4g, 62gr). Note at 6:50.

This new number is higher than the 5g (77gr) which was previously cited in most articles and sources and would put this heavy round firmly within the class of the modern intermediate rounds of the west, like the Grendel 6.5x39mm type Speer TNT, with its 90gr bullet.

A very interesting information, as I'd believe that this could make the heavy 5.8x42 round more capable than previously estimated, and could also indicate that the new DPB-10 common round (which is based on this heavy DBP-88 MG round) is a true intermediate round in terms of performance.

So, maybe there isnt so much a difference in bullet performance between 6.5 and 5.8 anymore, aside of the softer recoil of latter.

[chortles 263]

That's a "0.6 gram" in the subtitles, are you sure that that it was purporting that the round is 6 grams/92.6 grain? I'm reading that the DPB-87 was 64 grain (4.15 g), DPB-95 used the same bullet with a cleaner-burning propellant and non-corrosive primer, that the DBP-88 was 70 grain and (4.53 g) and that the DPB-10 is even heavier at 77 grain.

Are you the same Hongjian who reported on the 95-1 here? ;)

[lsp 10]

People in this thread have no idea what they're talking about. Looks like they consulted the internet for most of their information. Also does this mod come with the ability for all the chinese equipment to fail or break upon use? Like in the real world and all their poorly made crap.

Edited May 13, 2013 by lsp
Because I can

[Hongjian 11]

That's a "0.6 gram" in the subtitles, are you sure that that it was purporting that the round is 6 grams/92.6 grain? I'm reading that the DPB-87 was 64 grain (4.15 g), DPB-95 used the same bullet with a cleaner-burning propellant and non-corrosive primer, that the DBP-88 was 70 grain and (4.53 g) and that the DPB-10 is even heavier at 77 grain.

Are you the same Hongjian who reported on the 95-1 here? ;)

the “克†is what made me a bit cautious. It means gram, but it is impossible that the bullet weights just 0.6 gram (except they are shooting BB guns), so I interpreted it being six gram and the “克†here being a unit of 10 grams, with 0.6克 meaning 6 gram/92gr. But you are right, there's something fishy about it, although I'd give them the benefit of a doubt, since they correctly cited the weight of the DBP95 being around 4 gram/"0.4克". This would also correlate with the earlier chinese claim that the new 5.8x42mm heavy round outperforms the previously used 7.62x54R, which is an outrageous claim, if the bullet in question (77gr) weights less than half the bullet it replaces (181gr FMJ), even if it suppossed to have a flatter trajectory and an armor piercing hardened steel-core... The 92gr number as cited in this documentary would make this claim far more believeable.

And yes, that is me. I'm very much on the search for more and more information about modern chinese small arms and their ammunitions, which is why this CCTV documentation piqued my interest.

But maybe it is all just "LOLCCAV", as the chinese netizen used to say, and the real specs are still unknown...

[chortles 263]

No, å…‹ is specifically gram, and if that Chinese wiki page is correct then the next step up with a Chinese phrase is kilogram (åƒå…‹ is literally 'thousand gram' or 公斤) and the next step down is milligram (毫克)... the simplest answer that makes sense would be that the subtitles are off by a decimal.

[Hongjian 11]

Yeah, that must be just CCTV being CCTV, ie. retarded and incorrect most of the time.

EDIT: Or rather, inaccurate, since they did got right the general idea and just screwed up other things...

Edited May 13, 2013 by Hongjian

[Hongjian 11]

Something semi-related:

China just unveiled their stealthy Flying Wing Attack UCAV, the "Sharp Sword" (Lijian/利剑).

Maybe it is too early for that, considering the status of the Alpha, but this is an asset that should not be left out of the mod!

http://www.fyjs.cn/bbs/attachments/Mon_1305/27_186906_53f957e96ccb52e.jpg?265 (265 kB)

[chortles 263]

I'm chalking it up to "LOLCCTV" until a different source re: the DBP-88 and DBP-10 weighs in.

Also, the guy with a bucket at each end of a pole on his shoulders is not someone I would ever expect to see in a photo of a UCAV. That being said, are there any actual specs for it with which to prove that it's not just a life-size mock-up akin to the Qaher 313??