Advanced Robotics on the Battlefield of 2031

[nodunit 397]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDg4j64kkoo

I personally find the implications of those videos coupled with the ops pic and remembering the instance that followed shortly beforehand to be quite frightening.

[Sneakson 1]

Robotics: yes, yes, yes!

ARMA3 is set 20 years from now isn't it? Unless the global war machines just stop dead I'm 100% robotics will be commonplace by then considering there are already working prototypes today.

I'm also very much in love with the geckos from MGS4 and while their semi-biological parts are probably more than 20 years into the future if not completely unrealistic they’re well designed:

Basically for a game set 20 years into the future I've seen nothing futuristic about this game yet :p It should be set today, really.

It would be great if they could at least include this in an expansion later.

Edited April 13, 2013 by Sneakson

[scrim 1]

First, too many exclamation points. Second, pretty sure there won't be an ACE for Arma 3.

Why not?

Sneakson: In 20 years they won't be common place anywhere. You, and everyone else claiming that have hardly come up with a single argument for it, so when they haven't appeared in 20 years, I will tour the world to laugh at you all in person, because this silly sci-fi robots hype has become so old and repetitive I don't understand why the threads aren't regarded as spam by now.

[Sneakson 1]

Why not?

Sneakson: In 20 years they won't be common place anywhere. You, and everyone else claiming that have hardly come up with a single argument for it, so when they haven't appeared in 20 years, I will tour the world to laugh at you all in person, because this silly sci-fi robots hype has become so old and repetitive I don't understand why the threads aren't regarded as spam by now.

Wait, what? :s Do you have any grip on reality? 20 years is a long time and these robots are hardly science fiction since they've been around for 8 years already.

In the past 20 years drones not to mention all sorts of robots ranging from reconaissance bots to drones have clearly become commonplace in wars and today there are more drone pilots in training in the US than all other US military pilots together.

In the future and this is just the next 5-10 years we're clearly going to see a sharp increase in drone usage and the advanced militaries of the world are also eagerly looking at any other means they have of reducing casualties and keeping less soldiers out in the field.

20 years should be more than enough to have robot designs finalized and deployed and while they won't be appearing everywhere to serve fresh recruits coffee they will be appearing at least in every US army unit, at every front.

Simply the ambitions of the Boston Dynamics programs -- a robot to carry soldier's equipment in or out of combat -- would make a big difference for the soldiers no longer having to carry every armament themselves.

Considering how well drone warfare has been for the US in the middle east and considering how much they're investing in drones it'd be a real shocker if they weren't investigating other robotics opportunities as well.

And the future is most certainly today. All these ideas that were science fiction in the 80s are in development and have functional prototypes today ranging from the US Navy laser cannons to Asian invisibility cloaks.

[antoineflemming 14]

Why not?

Sneakson: In 20 years they won't be common place anywhere. You, and everyone else claiming that have hardly come up with a single argument for it, so when they haven't appeared in 20 years, I will tour the world to laugh at you all in person, because this silly sci-fi robots hype has become so old and repetitive I don't understand why the threads aren't regarded as spam by now.

I just thought the ACE guys said they weren't making it for Arma 3. I could have been wrong though.

[scrim 1]

Nah, think that was just Xeno.

Sneakson: No, 20 years really isn't a long time. For a teenager it is, but not for military technology and procurements. The Woodland camouflage for example was essentially completed in 1948, and it took up until the '70s for it to become widely issued. And that's just a camouflage pattern. Not a single one of those robots you showed off there has actually been used by a military. There is a huge difference between a company showing what they've made in an advertisement video claiming all sorts of BS about how good it is, how effective soldiers will become if the military just pays us several billions of dollars for the contract, how they will be really efficient in the field, etc. and it actually being used by the military on even a limited scale.

The drones that are in use today aren't brand new. They have been in development for decades, and the only reason they are actually existing today on the scale they are is because the last plus two decades worth of counterinsurgency warfare meant that the military could afford them with a budget they couldn't dream of in peace time. To believe that the progress in military technology will not come to an immense slow down when the war is over is to be childishly naive, if not deliberately ignorant.

[lightspeed_aust 681]

Scrim, I don't think anyone is saying that tech and robotics will transform the battlefield nor render obsolete the infantry on the ground, but there are likely to be some new gadgets and other in use and this is the opportunity to discuss and propose those possibilities.

[Sneakson 1]

Nah, think that was just Xeno.

Sneakson: No, 20 years really isn't a long time. For a teenager it is, but not for military technology and procurements. The Woodland camouflage for example was essentially completed in 1948, and it took up until the '70s for it to become widely issued. And that's just a camouflage pattern. Not a single one of those robots you showed off there has actually been used by a military. There is a huge difference between a company showing what they've made in an advertisement video claiming all sorts of BS about how good it is, how effective soldiers will become if the military just pays us several billions of dollars for the contract, how they will be really efficient in the field, etc. and it actually being used by the military on even a limited scale.

The drones that are in use today aren't brand new. They have been in development for decades, and the only reason they are actually existing today on the scale they are is because the last plus two decades worth of counterinsurgency warfare meant that the military could afford them with a budget they couldn't dream of in peace time. To believe that the progress in military technology will not come to an immense slow down when the war is over is to be childishly naive, if not deliberately ignorant.

Yes, 20 years is a good amount of time. 40 are even better, but 20 are significant. Comparing society today to that 20 years ago is significant. Comparing technology, medicine, anything.

I do react when people with no concept of time say we're going to have androids and sentient ai, bionic implants, clones and such even in our lives... or that the world energy networks will have been rebuilt to be eco-friendly in 20 years!

Comparing 1950s technological development with development today is ridiculous. We're all much more dynamic thinkers today and very open to new technology. If some new piece of technology proves to work we'll be going at it right away.

I don't think we're going to smash into the singularity any time soon but we do have cures for cancer, blindness, deafness, can do surgery on double amputees and grow organs in dishes.

Seeing the exact same technology we have today in a game set in 2030-2040 wouldn't make all the sense in the world to me. The military is conservative but I'd like to think they've changed in the past 20 years.

In the story of ARMA I believe wars never really stopped and that there is still a global conflict going on 20 years from now. Surely that shouldn't have the military living on a poor peacetime budget.

It does take time for things to enter practice. Many scientifical discoveries don't gain attention until their discoverers are dead.

But today we have the underlying discoveries and prototypes of various sci-fi technologies. 20 years ago noone would believe extent of the internet today. Only 5 years ago no one could imagine the current state of smartphones/pads.

Did you know any smartphone today can be turned into a high-power microscope with a simple ball lens that costs about $8?

The discoverers are planning on using this in development countries instead of clinical equipment worth a lot needless to say.

Technology today combined with unprecedented creativity means that people are beginning to discover that technology really pays off and if it turns out a simple cloth veil shields test dummies against shrapnel soldiers would be wearing them within the year.

Is what I think anyways. Naturally the rest of society is a bit quicker to catch on than the military which has rather intense bureaucracy and regulations.

Edited April 13, 2013 by Sneakson

[scrim 1]

"Comparing 1950s technology development"... No, camouflage patters are not a technology. And there's a huge difference between civilian market and military technology. We have had little new the last 20 years, and we won't have much more the next 20 years.

[Sneakson 1]

"Comparing 1950s technology development"... No, camouflage patters are not a technology. And there's a huge difference between civilian market and military technology. We have had little new the last 20 years, and we won't have much more the next 20 years.

Camouflage patterns are not a technology huh? So what then? What are they? I think they qualify well as a technology in the context that our developmental thinking is a lot more reactive today than back then.

I know the military are conservative but sooner or later they're gonna have rebels looking around corners with their iPads and then they'll have to think otherwise.

Edited April 13, 2013 by Sneakson

[NordKindchen 12]

http://www.armaholic.com/datas/users/arma_3__2__4.jpg

Just saying;)

[scrim 1]

Camouflage patterns are not a technology huh? So what then? What are they? I think they qualify well as a technology in the context that our developmental thinking is a lot more reactive today than back then.

I know the military are conservative but sooner or later they're gonna have rebels looking around corners with their iPads and then they'll have to think otherwise.

"The word technology refers to the making, modification, usage, and knowledge of tools, machines, techniques, crafts, systems, and methods of organization..."

It has nothing to do with the military being conservative (seriously, what?), it's got to do with the fact that military technology simply has way higher demands put on it than the off the shelf junk you buy in your average electronics store, the fact that it's going to cost so much it could probably feed a small third world country if it's cheep, and the fact that it has to prove that it has a place on the battlefield, as opposed to a place in your kitchen.

As for the rest of the "arguments": To ridiculous to warrant a response.

[Sneakson 1]

"The word technology refers to the making, modification, usage, and knowledge of tools, machines, techniques, crafts, systems, and methods of organization..."

It has nothing to do with the military being conservative (seriously, what?), it's got to do with the fact that military technology simply has way higher demands put on it than the off the shelf junk you buy in your average electronics store, the fact that it's going to cost so much it could probably feed a small third world country if it's cheep, and the fact that it has to prove that it has a place on the battlefield, as opposed to a place in your kitchen.

As for the rest of the "arguments": To ridiculous to warrant a response.

Well yeah, your arguments are also real nice. Having to look up the word technology in a dictionary and still not realizing (?) camouflage is a technology even as it says it black on white right there in your quote. Not that it's relevant.

And yeah I know military grade stuff has to be pretty waterproof to get put into the field and that's what I meant about being technologically conservative. They stick to proven ways and don't experiment potentially risking their army’s efficacy.

Anyways I think robotics would do well in this game and that we could very well see them in reality should several first-world countries continue warring well into the 2030s. I don't think it would be leaving safe ground as the Ghost Recon series have recently.

---------- Post added at 23:20 ---------- Previous post was at 23:16 ----------

http://www.armaholic.com/datas/users/arma_3__2__4.jpg

Just saying;)

Any text to go, or were the images published alone? Would love to know how they are controlled. "Drones", probably?

Either that or dwarf pilots.

I guess anti-tank guys are going to be very important in ARMA3 all things considered. I wonder if they will have any tools at their disposal other than rockets and mines.

[scrim 1]

Camouflage is neither a tool, a machine, a technique, a craft, a system, nor a methods of organisation. Do you not know what that is?

[Sneakson 1]

Camouflage is neither a tool, a machine, a technique, a craft, a system, nor a methods of organisation. Do you not know what that is?

Camouflage is a tool indeed and a technique and I would say the people working with it certainly call its creation a craft. Perhaps you should look up the definitions of those words too.

And as a technology its invention, development and deployment was affected by the technological development rate and technological open-mindedness at the time.

[scrim 1]

Yeah, that's ridiculous BS. A camouflage uniform is neither an actual tool, nor is it a technique. And no, it's not a craft, unless you're working on it and are full of hubris.

[lightspeed_aust 681]

It is called a camouflage system.

'Nuff said.

[scrim 1]

And nor is it a system. "A system is a set of interacting or interdependent components forming an integrated whole or a set of elements (often called 'components') and relationships which are different from relationships of the set or its elements to other elements or sets."

Truth said.

[lightspeed_aust 681]

Of course it's a system. There's more to camouflage then pretty swirls or dots on cloth, do some research before you post or you will just lose all credibility.

[scrim 1]

Yeah, it's not a system. Would you like another quote regarding what a system actually is? Quite frankly, I don't care about losing credibility in the eyes of someone who doesn't understand what simple words mean, and believes that we'll have sci-fi robot soldiers in 20 years just because some corporation claims they can build it if they get billions of dollars.

[lightspeed_aust 681]

Lol ok

[Sneakson 1]

Yeah, it's not a system. Would you like another quote regarding what a system actually is? Quite frankly, I don't care about losing credibility in the eyes of someone who doesn't understand what simple words mean, and believes that we'll have sci-fi robot soldiers in 20 years just because some corporation claims they can build it if they get billions of dollars.

Dude! You're the one having to look all these words up.

Definition of TOOL: a : something (as an instrument or apparatus) used in performing an operation or necessary in the practice of a vocation or profession...

Definition of INSTRUMENT: a : a means whereby something is achieved, performed, or furthered

Definition of APPARATUS: a : a set of materials or equipment designed for a particular use

Camouflage is a means to conceal yourself and a set of materials and equipment designed for the particular use of concealing yourself and therefore it is an apparatus, instrument and tool.

Definition of TECHNIQUE: a : a body of technical methods (as in a craft or in scientific research)

b : a method of accomplishing a desired aim

Example: I used a special technique to make the bread.

Camouflage is a technique used toward the desired aim of staying concealed just like baking by sending your bread in orbit around the sun is a special technique of making bread.

Definition of CRAFT: 1 : skill in planning, making, or executing

2

a : an occupation or trade requiring manual dexterity or artistic skill

b plural : articles made by craftspeople

3

: skill in deceiving to gain an end

Arguably camouflage is a craft in every sense of the word! 1 Creating or using camouflage obviously takes skill, 2a creating or using camouflage requires some sort skill so it's a craft and their articles are crafts aaand finally camouflaging yourself is crafty as in sly.

And arguably yes, camouflage could be considered a system in which the different parts of the pattern interact to cheat the eye of the observer or in which the pattern, grass, leaves or whatever is attached to a ghillie suit is considered a system.

Definition of SYSTEM: 1 : a regularly interacting or interdependent group of items forming a unified whole

4 : harmonious arrangement or pattern

All according to the Merriam Webster.

[scrim 1]

I certainly agree that if the meaning of words are to be disregarded in favour of what you'd like them to mean, then yes, you are right. How it proves any sort of point for you though is questionable.

Let's go ahead and assume that camouflage uniforms indeed are technology: Since camouflage was originally used over 100 years ago (simply dying your uniforms in khaki instead of bright colours), how far has it come today? Is camouflage today a uniform you dress yourself in and become 100% invisible? Seeing as how you say in 20 years we'll have robots quite possibly fighting our enemies and making intelligent decisions on their own accord, should we not have come a very much further way in regards to camouflage uniforms than some more patterns by today?

You just built yourself a nice trap by insisting camouflage uniforms actually are technology.

[kilroy the nerd 14]

What about the navy's cleaning robot?

I don't think it'll be quite as advanced in 2035 as you seem to be thinking, OP. But nonetheless there are some cool robots out there. And like Antoine said, we have some real mean looking UGVs to look forward to, as well as various UAVs. Not that I don't hope for an EOD bot so we don't have to have the danger of having our resident EOD turning into red stuff, or rather mounting an AA-12 on that thing for room clearing or similar.