Suppression Effect missing in ARMA3

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

No not simulate, as that is obviously impossible. Instead we want to reproduce the human response to a firefight.

Cool demagogy, bro.

Enjoy superior tactical positioning. LOL

The clowns aren't even getting hit, yet they suffer from the schizo effects. So real.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Iroquois Pliskin

[max power 21]

You see, the people here want to simulate the emotional/human psyche response to a firefight, and not any of the physiological dangers, such as ringing in the ears from a loud explosion, or knocking back of the player from, say, MBT cannon overpressure.

Good luck to them. LOL

I'm not sure I've heard anyone down voting ringing ears or anything like that. Are you sure you didn't just make that up?

[Maxzy 12]

No not simulate, as that is obviously impossible. Instead we want to reproduce the human response to a firefight. I don't see whats so flawed about that. And who said they didn't want the physiological dangers properly simulated?

Heh, while I was lurking in dictionaries for the right words, you ninja'd me =))

Exactly - who said we don't want to physiological dangers to be simulated? I don't know about others, but this is exactly what I want to be simulated in the first place. Eyes blinking, head twitching - those kind of things. And since there is no way that psychological effects of human mind can be digitally implemented, we need some kind of substitute for that - i.e. shaking hands, etc.

Edited April 4, 2013 by MAXZY

[max power 21]

Cool demagogy, bro.

Enjoy superior tactical positioning. LOL

The clowns aren't even getting hit, yet they suffer from the schizo effects. So real.

Not sure I appreciate your tone. And of course, it's a shame to see that you think it's logically sufficient to cherry pick the most annoying implementation of suppression effects as the only choice.

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

I'm not sure I've heard anyone down voting ringing ears or anything like that. Are you sure you didn't just make that up?

We've had this discussion. They want their schizo effects, before any objective stuff that is very real & reproducible on every human being.

I'll wait for ACE 3, if anything.

[max power 21]

We've had this discussion. They want their schizo effects, before any objective stuff that is very real & reproducible on every human being.

I'll wait for ACE 3, if anything.

Could you please name the individuals you are referring to when you say 'they', that hold both the opinion that they would like suppression effects and also they don't want ringing ears? Because I think perhaps you are referring to no one.

[mr_centipede 31]

The BF3 effect does annoying. But you should try to play with TPWCAS... that was done quite well, get the job done. The point is, some penalizing effect need to be implemented. Which is exactly not like BF3

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

Could you please name the individuals you are referring to when you say 'they', that hold both the opinion that they would like suppression effects and also they don't want ringing ears? Because I think perhaps you are referring to no one.

I'd say that would be everyone, who is in favour of this topic, seeing as we don't even have a proper medical system, nor any of the tangible stuff that ACE 2 had, which reminded the player of his own mortality at every single step. Oh, wait, there's death from burning wrecks - that's a start.

I agree that ArmA II/III feels sterile without the above, but adding subjective, emotional schizo effects isn't the God damn priority.

[froggyluv 2136]

.

I agree that ArmA II/III feels sterile without the above, but adding subjective, emotional schizo effects isn't the God damn priority.

Lol! You make it sound like some estrogen overload, emotional breakdown with much weeping and light-headedness :p

If the worlds #1 military training tool uses it (VBS2) - than they obviously share much in common with BF3...:rolleyes:

[Smurf 12]

Forget it, just leave the game with the same effects that A1 and A2 had.

[Maxzy 12]

Iroquois Pliskin, why you keep referring to BF3? No one said "Hey, look at this great BF3 stuff - we need exactly this in ArmA ASAP!!"

No one said that this is the way we want it. And it's not that bad, to be honest, it's just that fade-to-black is happening for too long. It just has to be much shorter.

[max power 21]

I'd say that would be everyone, who is in favour of this topic, seeing as we don't even have a proper medical system, nor any of the tangible stuff that ACE 2 had, which reminded the player of his own mortality at every single step. Oh, wait, there's death from burning wrecks - that's a start.

I agree that ArmA II/III feels sterile without the above, but adding subjective, emotional schizo effects isn't the God damn priority.

FPDR

So if I talk about what kind of vegetables I would like with my dinner, it means I hate meat and starch? This logic is so bad it's verging on troll territory, and I know you're not a stupid guy. I don't know why you would pull a stunt like this because it is, shall we say, distracting from any kind of point you might have had.

Well here you go, Iroquois Pliskin, just for you. A long time ago I played a game called Global Ops. The game was like counter strike back when that was popular, but it had some really nice touches like tinnitus when someone else's gun was going off next to your head. I would really like to see that in ArmA, along with the tinnitus from explosions it already has ;)

[Chocolate 1]

I like how the remote mentioning of suppression brings rabid gnashing of teeth and "arcade play/BF3" accusations. I don't think anyone wants the BF3 system....I have not read a single post that said a good thing about the EXTREME BF3 system (From any side of the argument).

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

FPDR

So if I talk about what kind of vegetables I would like with my dinner, it means I hate meat and starch? This logic is so bad it's verging on troll territory, and I know you're not a stupid guy. I don't know why you would pull a stunt like this because it is, shall we say, distracting from any kind of point you might have had.

You know what I implied: diverting dev attention & manpower from things that are objective, and that apply to every human being equally: fire that doesn't burn, tailrotors that don't kill, explosions/.50+ caliber gunfire that don't deafen, MBT fire/AT backblast/any kind of overpressure that doesn't apply a knockback & a lasting concussion.

---------- Post added at 03:10 ---------- Previous post was at 03:08 ----------

If the worlds #1 military training tool uses it (VBS2) - than they obviously share much in common with BF3...:rolleyes:

VBS 2.0 has many other things, like gore & dismemberment - can we have that as well? Btw, share an example in footage of this in VBS.

The way I see it, they'd be lucky to reach this level of immersion that ACE 2 provides in ArmA II,

As always, this video marks a /thread for me.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Iroquois Pliskin

[max power 21]

You know what I implied: diverting dev attention & manpower from things that are objective, and that apply to every human being equally: fire that doesn't burn, tailrotors that don't kill, explosions/.50+ caliber gunfire that don't deafen, MBT fire/AT backblast/any kind of overpressure that doesn't apply a knockback & a lasting concussion.

I thought we're just talking about stuff we'd like to see. I didn't realize we were in the middle of a binding planning session for BI's future. If that's the case I have several really great ideas.

[-Coulum- 35]

Cool demagogy, bro.

Enjoy superior tactical positioning. LOL

Why thank you...

And holy shit where has that game been all this time! That's exactly what I've been saying arma 3 should be like all this time! Thanks for enlightening me!

Once again you really don't put forth any counter arguments but rather just resort to trying to twist peoples words out of proportion and spreading straight out lies. It boggles my mind why this one topic turns you into a troll.

VBS2 visual suppression effects are in some ways worse than BF3. It is a simulator for the military. But I guess it would be alot better just to use BF3 as a training sim right? Oh, why am I bothering to even ask...

You know what I implied: diverting dev attention & manpower from things that are objective, and that apply to every human being equally: fire that doesn't burn, tailrotors that don't kill, explosions/.50+ caliber gunfire that don't deafen, MBT fire/AT backblast/any kind of overpressure that doesn't apply a knockback & a lasting concussion.

Nobody even said that "suppression system" should take preference over anything you mentioned. I don't understand you logic at all.

VBS 2.0 has many other things, like gore & dismemberment - can we have that as well? Btw, share an example in footage of this in VBS.

Gore and dismemberment would be cool too... what the hell does it have to do with this topic? You can dowload the British version of vbs for free (lite). being suppressed results in vision

(fisheye vision, darkening of edges, distorted colours), as well increased breathing.

Forget it, just leave the game with the same effects that A1 and A2 had.

Did they both have the same effects? Just making the arma 2 system also triggered by sonic cracks and bullets passing by would be good enough for me although not perfect.

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

being suppressed results in vision

(fisheye vision, darkening of edges, distorted colours), as well increased breathing.

That's it? That's what this BS thread, and the 90-page one months ago, is all about? Looks like tunnel vision, induced by an (earlier) adrenalin rush - this could be another misc effect, not something central to the gameplay, and it isn't incapacitating in any way, unlike BF3 that YOU guys first mentioned in this thread.

Either find a better example, or I'll keep ROFL'ing.

[froggyluv 2136]

You know what I implied: diverting dev attention & manpower from things that are objective, and that apply to every human being equally: fire that doesn't burn, tailrotors that don't kill, explosions/.50+ caliber gunfire that don't deafen, MBT fire/AT backblast/any kind of overpressure that doesn't apply a knockback & a lasting concussion.

I would argue that suppresion effects happen far more in RL than mistakenly walking into a helo rotor or idiots walking directly behind AT backblasts so if resource/priority talk is on the line...

As for Vbs2 I've uninstalled as I didn't quite feel it lived up to expectations in terms of AI and find Arma 2/Arma 3 much more enjoyable. Though its pretty funny and a little telling that there is so little complaining on the VBS forums despite the $500 price tag -could you imagine if they dropped the price to $50 :p

[kireta21 13]

And it was and still is in VBS2 before BF3. I've asked many times why Suppression = BF3 = Arcadey = he doesn't want realism, and if so why VBS2 has them, but nobody seems to want to answer.

Hand shake is more like a placeholder, as BIS wanted "something" to simulate supression. It's not very realistic, but somehow works as gameplay mechanic. Like hitpoints in tanks.

Edited April 4, 2013 by boota

[max power 21]

That's it? That's what this BS thread, and the 90-page one months ago, is all about?

No, I think that's one example of how a simulator does it. ;) It looks to me like those are effects from being physically shot tho.

[-Coulum- 35]

I didn't mention BF3 first and I certainly didn't say anything good about it.

First mention was actually here:

I quite like the suppression effect in BF3 and agree

And then after that here:

Jesus, its going to be BF3 all over again.

Now where did I put my M60 with silencer?

Again I politely ask, BIS make it an option please.

Anyhow, yep thats one example of how it could be done. I don't know why this would come as surprise... did you not read what people have been suggesting? Red Orchestra has effects more along the lines of what I would want though. It also makes your character cringe/twitch after a bullet snaps by and takes away the ability to zoom in or hold your breath, while of course also making your breathing heavier. The colour change double vision in RO is kind of over the top and I wouldn't really care if it were included or not.

I would argue that suppresion effects happen far more in RL than mistakenly walking into a helo rotor or idiots walking directly behind AT backblasts so if resource/priority talk is on the line...

I would tend to agree. I come under fire far more often than I stand beside a tank as it shoots. And a suppression system would have much more effect on gameplay than my ears ringing when firing a machingun. Immersion is a different factor but I find good gameplay is the key to good immersion.

Hand shake is more like a placeholder, as BIS wanded "something" to simulate supression. It's not very realistic, but somehow works as gameplay mechanic. Like hitpoints in tanks.

Yes exactly! it isn't pretty, but its needed and serves its purpose. Problem is there is no "component based damage system" for suppression like there is for hitpoints. Its the best they can do and it sure beats just not having them at all (which in your anaolgy would mean just making vehicles not take damage).

Edited April 4, 2013 by -Coulum-

[dnk 13]

I'd say that would be everyone, who is in favour of this topic, seeing as we don't even have a proper medical system, nor any of the tangible stuff that ACE 2 had, which reminded the player of his own mortality at every single step.

No offense to ACE2, which I love, but the medical system was basically "anything but a headshot is survivable with some bandages and epinephrine/morphine." 5-story fall? Just patch yourself up with a medkit and you're good to go. Get shot 5 times with a 50cal (with intevening medical attention), 6th shot... just a few bandages from being 100% again. It's pretty ludicrous, as is constantly passing out from pain for like 3 minutes. ACE2 does some things well, but a realistic damage/health/medical system is not remotely one of them.

I like the A2 suppression effects for the player, though adding in little twitches for "close bullet snaps" and impacts would add to it.

[max power 21]

Imagine two players circle strafing each other at combat pace, blazing away and twitching with each shot. LOL.

[Levinin 1]

"If a bullet land a metre away"

No that is specifically not what I am saying. If a bullet lands a metre away you find cover. But not because of that bullet, because of the fact that the guy with the rifle is probably correcting their aim and is likely to hit next time.

What i'm saying is, make the AI accurate enough that they do hit next time so it is impossible to stand and pick people off.

if you are 90% sure your opponent will miss it isn't suppression is it?

[whisper 0]

"If a bullet land a metre away"

No that is specifically not what I am saying. If a bullet lands a metre away you find cover. But not because of that bullet, because of the fact that the guy with the rifle is probably correcting their aim and is likely to hit next time.

What i'm saying is, make the AI accurate enough that they do hit next time so it is impossible to stand and pick people off.

if you are 90% sure your opponent will miss it isn't suppression is it?

That's it.

Personnaly, my main concern is that a suppression forced on players will simply have one effect : reward bad aim. You just have to shoot in the vincinity of someone (note : you were initially NOT shooting for suppressing, but for killing, but you have bad aim and simply miss), and magically, you are immune to return fire because your target cannot aim correctly at you... because you missed. This will happen A LOT more than tactical suppressing.

I'll probably get some CoD, LOL hipfiring comments, but I'm also playing A3 as a FPS, and in some scenario, I'd like to see FPS skill rewarded, as much as in some other scenarios, I'll be more into immersion and positionning. A3 is about permitting both.