Us vs. rest of the world

[sgtvor 0]

I'm American.  Personally, I don't see any reason as to why my country shouldn't defend it's way of life.  

That's all that ANY country on earth is doing.  You Europeans simply enjoy your own way of life and question ours, and we do the same to you.

You can all argue forever about who's way is better, but that just comes down to the individual mind.  

Our entire way of life is all about the pursuit of happiness.  As for what happened with Iraq, think about it like this....No oil equals no cars, no cars equal no jobs, no jobs equal no money, no money equals no happiness.  So....we, as a rather powerful nation....will do what we can to insure our happiness....to hell with the rest of the world.  I'm sorry, but I firmly beleive supporting my country first, above all others.  If given the choice between endangering US Soldiers or enemy civilains...then the civilians are out of luck...sorry.  I see no problem with this.

Now Europe isn't to far from our line of thinking really...so agreeing with us doesn't hurt you folks much.  The bottom line however, is that we're big...and as childish as it may seem to our neighbors across the pond, we get what we want when we want it because of that.  

Also, you tell us that the US manipulates the world to get what we want.  True.  Just don't think that your governments are innocent of that same action.  The recent ICC exemption is a perfect example of just how desperately the rest of the world wants to manipulate the US strength for their own agendas.  To put it simply, if you didn't need us, there would never have been an exemption.  

Anyways....I don't mean to flame europe in general, so sorry if it seemed to take that angle (you guys are pretty well represented here, so I figure I'd take aim at someone who could fight back ).

Also, on a side note:  A world government will never be established until 1 of 2 things happen.

1.  Religion is abolished in all forms, from every aspect of all governments.

2.  Some god finally decends from the heavens, removing all doubt about which is the true religion.

Until one of those happens....I wish you extremely good luck in forming a cohesive, working, fair world government.

[Longinius 1]

"this isn't acknowledged because they're not on the news all the time. They only make it to the news when they fail to keep peace and a small conflict happens.  "

Honestly, when I think about UN soldiers and peacekeepers I dont see Americans. I see people with blue helmets and white SISU's. Many of my friends have done tours as peacekeepers in the balkans. Most of the time when I see programs about peacekeepers on TV, its Europeans in their blue helmets or nifty berets you see.

[LauryThorn 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">we get what we want when we want it because of that. <span id='postcolor'>

I just think that people should think further that just that.

See, if you take what you want, and that pisses some other people off, they may react to it.

For example, if you piss off Euros enough, they might, for example, stop making business with Americans as much as they

can.

So following your conclusion thinking:

Euros pissed off -> no commerce with euros -> less money -> less happy.

I don't mean just to bash US, I think that we could talk about

things and talk about how things should be done.

Because I think that happiness is more than just having money.

[R. Gerschwarzenge 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (LauryThorn @ July 18 2002,14:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Because I think that happiness is more than just having money.<span id='postcolor'>

Damn right. I don't have money but I'm very happy.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (foxer @ July 18 2002,12:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RedStorm @ July 18 2002,12:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And another good thread turned into a country bashing one... <span id='postcolor'>

I hope it wasn't me,That did it.It's just i had to say something about subhuman thing.If americans soldiers risking their life ,why shouldn't some europe nations soldiers be with those US soldiers ,Europe like to comment about how america should do this and not do this,well why isn't europe(some nations) in africa(Somalia) right now beating some heads down,other then commenting that americans don't care about africans because they are subhuman is wrong,because americans must be subhuman to europe if they sit there and say that crap.<span id='postcolor'>

In the normal case I'd be very insulted. However I just woke up from a nice nap and I'm still groggy, so I'm not going to attack, at least not now.

I was in Kosovo for six months last year so please don't tell me that European countries are not doing anything. As a matter of fact the Europeans countries provide relatively (per capita) more troops to peace keeping missions then US does. We also give more money in help and we don't have outstanding debts to the U.N.

[Paratrooper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ July 18 2002,15:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (foxer @ July 18 2002,12:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RedStorm @ July 18 2002,12:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And another good thread turned into a country bashing one... <span id='postcolor'>

I hope it wasn't me,That did it.It's just i had to say something about subhuman thing.If americans soldiers risking their life ,why shouldn't some europe nations soldiers be with those US soldiers ,Europe like to comment about how america should do this and not do this,well why isn't europe(some nations) in africa(Somalia) right now beating some heads down,other then commenting that americans don't care about africans because they are subhuman is wrong,because americans must be subhuman to europe if they sit there and say that crap.<span id='postcolor'>

In the normal case I'd be very insulted. However I just woke up from  a nice nap and I'm still groggy, so I'm not going to attack, at least not now.

I was in Kosovo for six months last year so please don't tell me that European countries are not doing anything. As a matter of fact the Europeans countries provide relatively (per capita) more troops to peace keeping missions then US does. We also give more money in help and we don't have outstanding debts to the U.N.<span id='postcolor'>

Here here, I'm from a family that has seen a lot of it's members serve in the forces, and it galls me to hear Americans constantly talking about "American troops putting their ass on the line for other shit holes" America is never alone in the international peace keeping community, and the constant jibes at the European armies is wearing a little thin. Britain and France (the main European military powers) have very potent forces. In my opinion they should spend more money, but that is another matter.

[Paratrooper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Europe like to comment about how america should do this and not do this,well why isn't europe(some nations) in africa(Somalia) right now beating some heads down,other then <span id='postcolor'> This plain ignorence just makes me fume. There are no US troops in Africa. Britain on the other hand has occupied all of Sierra Leone in order to bring peace and allow the UN to operate. Be don't set up a base and fly helicopters over citys and then are surprised when we get shot at. We get the job done.

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Oligo @ July 18 2002,07:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Same goes for Finland and Sweden also. We do a lot of peace-keeping. Even as we elongate this moronic thread, there are soldiers from our countries keeping peace somewhere (Kosovo for example), just like there are soldiers from U.S. and so forth.

The arguments always follows this track:

-Euro: WTF you U.S. always attacking Iraq and shit?

-U.S.: We do it for peace and democracy.

-Euro: BS, you do it for oil!

-U.S.: No we do it for peace and democracy!

-Euro: If you do it for peace and democracy, why the fuck aren't you keeping peace and democracy in China and Africa and such?

-U.S.: Why the fuck aren't you euro mice sending your troops to keep the peace and democracy? Our poor U.S. soldiers always have to die for peace and democracy, because you won't do it!

-Euro: We fucking keep the peace all the time!

-U.S.: Yeah, with our goddamn money! We run NATO almost completely alone!

-Euro: But you evil fucks don't pay your U.N. debts!

-U.S.: Maybe that's because we give all this fucking money to all these fucking poor countries!

-Euro: But we fucking give more money per capita than you goddamn do!

et cetera ad infinitum<span id='postcolor'>

Good observation.

As far as I'm concerned everything of most importance has been said in this thread (again). Hopefully time will diminish our differences. Threads obviously do not.

Other than that, nothing to add... OUT

[Guest]

I got reminded of a hilarious Onion article that was published in the connection with the last presidential elections in USA:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">BELGRADE—Serbian president Vojislav Kostunica deployed more than 30,000 peacekeeping troops to the U.S. Monday, pledging full support to the troubled North American nation as it struggles to establish democracy.

"We must do all we can to support free elections in America and allow democracy to gain a foothold there," Kostunica said. "The U.S. is a major player in the Western Hemisphere and its continued stability is vital to Serbian interests in that region."

Kostunica urged Al Gore, the U.S. opposition-party leader who is refusing to recognize the nation's Nov. 7 election results, to "let the democratic process take its course."

"Mr. Gore needs to acknowledge the will of the people and concede that he has lost this election," Kostunica said. "Until America's political figures learn to respect the institutions that have been put in place, the nation will never be a true democracy."

Serbian forces have been stationed throughout the U.S., with an emphasis on certain trouble zones. Among them are Oregon, Florida, and eastern Tennessee, where Gore set up headquarters in Bush territory. An additional 10,000 troops are expected to arrive in the capital city of Washington, D.C. by Friday.

Though Kostunica has pledged to work with U.S. leaders, he did not rule out the possibility of economic sanctions if the crisis is not resolved soon.

"For democracy to take root and flourish, it must be planted in the rich soil of liberty. And the cornerstone of liberty is elections free of tampering or corruption," Kostunica said. "Should America prove itself incapable of learning this lesson on its own, the international community may be forced to take stronger measures."

<span id='postcolor'>

[bn880 5]

This is going into my Archives immediately.

[ran 0]

served twice in peacekeeping operations

one with the forpronu in 1993

the other in the IFOR in 1996

i saw 4 times (from where i was stationed) more european ground personnals there than US ones

i hate hearing from the americans that europe doesn't participate to peacekeeping around the world

my "brother in law" served in the FINUL (lebanon) in 1980/81 and in somalia in the middle of 1993(i don't knwo the name of the UN contingent there)

my little brother made his military service in kosovo two years ago in the KFOR

they are both french

just a little exemple

every european (E.U.) army has served at least in one peacekeeping operation

[Placebo 29]

Blah, and again blah, I'm not going to waste my time wading through 12 pages of this regurgitated crap, I should have closed it when Ralph made his first post as I knew what would happen, that'll teach me to be moderate.

One day you guys will be able to have a discussion on such matters without it becoming USA v EU, I don't hold my breath though