Us vs. rest of the world

[Oligo 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (LauryThorn @ July 18 2002,10:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">i agree with that. Russia is so large country that

it can give couple of thousands miles and then strike back.<span id='postcolor'>

The scary part of it is that Stalin was preparing to attack Germany! That's why his troops were in an attack posture on the border. Imagine what would have happened if the russian might had been left roll across Europe unchecked by a german pre-emptive attack...

They would be singing the Soviet anthem in Paris.

"In one of his speeches about the attack on the Soviet Union, Hitler stated that the Soviets had placed a huge number of divisions along the German-Soviet border. What I saw when traveling through that forest were huge masses of well-camouflaged tanks, artillery, trucks, and other war materiel. Slonim was then only some 30 km. from the German-Soviet border and I must believe Hitler when he speculated that he had taken the jump against the Soviets because a few days later, they would have attacked. To judge from that much war materiel, I am inclined to believe Hitler. Remember: the Nazis were not the only ones who lied through their teeth." From a recollection by a german panzer trooper

[xmurderx 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (LauryThorn @ July 18 2002,10:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">ancient is "columbus discovered america".<span id='postcolor'>

What is the 'vikings discovered america', then? or 'indians living peacefully in the continent now known as america'?. or the empire of rome? or stone age?<span id='postcolor'>

those are ancient too, they are all set into ancient, just beause columbus happened a bit after that doesnt make those things ancient too. your just trying to stir up trouble because I happen to say "columbus" I never even said he was first, I was just using an example, damn, I know I should have stuck to "when the angel spoke to muhamad" or "when dinosaurs roamed the earth" to avoid starting childish arguments

[MDRZulu 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">too compatible opponent?<span id='postcolor'>

Basically, why lose thousands of lives doing China's own work when they are a civalized country themselves to work out their problems.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well maybe you should open your ears then?<span id='postcolor'>

Give me a link to these South American tortures I'm willing to read. And it better not be remote incidents because people in the US get tortured too, its crime and its everywhere. I will disregard the South American part if you show some significant torturing there.

Edit: oh and recent wouldnt hurt.

[xmurderx 0]

Edit: oh and recent wouldnt hurt.

I geuss they can give you link for something that happened 60 years ago. thats recent right?

[Longinius 1]

"We do aid South America today but from torturing??, I cant say I hear of too much torturing going on down there... or any."

Then you have chosen to ignore the fact that deathsquads are common? They walk around and kill beggars and street kids in order to keep their numbers down. And the killing is letting them get of easy, there have been reports of far worse things.

"If you forgot already we did aid africa and some americans got killed so we left, they werent worth it I guess."

Exactly. THEY werent worth it, they are subhuman, compared to the great Americans.

"China and the US going at it in a full scale war would definetly not be good."

So? Forget war. What is America doing to help the people in China? Or the people in Tibet even? Tibet was illegally occupied and noone gave/gives a damn. Why? Maybe because they have no oil. The people in Tibet have suffered far worse than the people of Kuwait.

"Give me a link to these South American tortures I'm willing to read. And it better not be remote incidents because people in the US get tortured too, its crime and its everywhere. I will disregard the South American part if you show some significant torturing there."

I suggest you visit this site http://www.amnesty.org/

And check up on most South American nations.

[LauryThorn 0]

From amnesty.org, definition of torture:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"an act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person", for a purpose such as obtaining information or a confession, punishment, intimidation or coercion, "or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind".<span id='postcolor'>

I don't know in what kind of environment you guys live in,

but torture is not "everywhere".

[foxer 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ July 18 2002,11:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"If you forgot already we did aid africa and some americans got killed so we left, they werent worth it I guess."

Exactly. THEY werent worth it, they are subhuman, compared to the great Americans.<span id='postcolor'>

where were the european soldiers at though ? I guess they didn't care.When the USA pull outta there why didn't the UN stay ? Why didn't europe say let us try,Why is it europe follows america,but scared to take their own lead.Maybe because they are scared to lose a few soldiers,or is it because they don't care when american soldiers die?  That's probably why though,They like to ride america's back when we win and they all jump off when it looks like america is going fall.Kosvo,Bosnia,iraq,afghanistan.Soo before you say anything about subhuman,you should ask your gov't,or other europe countries why won't they do anything.Now I'm not talking about all countries,just alot of them.

[LauryThorn 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">where were the european soldiers at though ?<span id='postcolor'>

Was UN involved in Somalia operation in the first place?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I guess they didn't care<span id='postcolor'>

Well, maybe we don't care about oil as much as Yanks do,

but we don't attack independent countries claiming that

"we are here to protect human rights", when we would be

there protecting "our" oil pipes (are they called pipes?).

[Longinius 1]

"where were the european soldiers at though ? I guess they didn't care.When the USA pull outta there why didn't the UN stay ? Why didn't europe say let us try,Why is it europe follows america,but scared to take their own lead.Maybe because they are scared to lose a few soldiers,or is it because they don't care when american soldiers die?  That's probably why though,They like to ride america's back when we win and they all jump off when it looks like america is going fall.Kosvo,Bosnia,iraq,afghanistan.Soo before you say anything about subhuman,you should ask your gov't,or other europe countries why won't they do anything.Now I'm not talking about all countries,just alot of them."

My country, Sweden, had no UN soldiers in Somalia. As far as I know, there were Pakistanians though. And a UN presence. If you expect Sweden to be able to do the same things as the US, you must be high. We don't have the same resources, the same influence, anywhere near the same manpower, not even close to the same military hardware and we sure as heck don't have the means to get that kind of stuff in a hurry anywhere with proper support.

With power and influence comes responsibility. You can either chose to be responsible and humble, or to be a bully. There is a lot of bullying going around these days.

[foxer 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ July 18 2002,11:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"China and the US going at it in a full scale war would definetly not be good."

So? Forget war. What is America doing to help the people in China? Or the people in Tibet even? Tibet was illegally occupied and noone gave/gives a damn. Why? Maybe because they have no oil. The people in Tibet have suffered far worse than the people of Kuwait.<span id='postcolor'>

Probably because it would be suicide. Where were europe? Shouldn't they be talking to china about how to do thing and not to do things because europe is soo great at and america is only good at dropping bombs.

[Longinius 1]

"Was UN involved in Somalia operation in the first place?"

Yeah. http://www.un.org/Depts/DPKO/Missions/unosomi.htm

[foxer 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ July 18 2002,12:01)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">My country, Sweden, has no UN soldiers in Somalia. As far as I know, there were Pakistanians though. And a UN presence. If you expect Sweden to be able to do the same things as the US, you must be high. We don't have the same resources, the same influence, anywhere near the same manpower, not even close to the same military hardware and we sure as heck don't have the means to get that kind of stuff in a hurry anywhere with proper support.

With power and influence comes responsibility. You can either chose to be responsible and humble, or to be a bully. There is a lot of bullying going around these days.<span id='postcolor'>

OK,but where is frace,brits,germany,other europe nations,they love to talk about how great their military is,but they are scared to act without the US.

[Longinius 1]

"Probably because it would be suicide. Where were europe? Shouldn't they be talking to china about how to do thing and not to do things because europe is soo great at and america is only good at dropping bombs."

Judging by the rest of your posts Foxer, I am sure you have a splendid insight into the diplomatic talks between various European nations and China.

No, we havent attacked China for their crimes against Tibet or human rights. On the other hand, we havent attacked Iraq claiming those topics as an excuse either.

[LauryThorn 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">OK,but where is frace,brits,germany,other europe nations,they love to talk about how great their military is,but they are scared to act without the US.<span id='postcolor'>

OK. Can you name some military threat that for ex. France should

respond to with their army?

At least in Finland, the army is called "Defense forces", and

defense is what it is planned for.

EDIT:

Oh my typing..

[foxer 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (LauryThorn @ July 18 2002,12:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">OK,but where is frace,brits,germany,other europe nations,they love to talk about how great their military is,but they are scared to act without the US.<span id='postcolor'>

OK. Can you name some military threat that for ex. France should

respond to with their army?

At least in Finland, the army is called "Defense forces", and

defense is what they are planned for.<span id='postcolor'>

Talking about africa,people always wonder why US doesn't doing something about ,but i'm trying find out why europe countries won't do something about.As in Somalia.Why won't europe(not all europe countries) put some soldiers up in there and see if they can change things.

[RedStorm 0]

And another good thread turned into a country bashing one...

[foxer 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RedStorm @ July 18 2002,12:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And another good thread turned into a country bashing one... <span id='postcolor'>

I hope it wasn't me,That did it.It's just i had to say something about subhuman thing.If americans soldiers risking their life ,why shouldn't some europe nations soldiers be with those US soldiers ,Europe like to comment about how america should do this and not do this,well why isn't europe(some nations) in africa(Somalia) right now beating some heads down,other then commenting that americans don't care about africans because they are subhuman is wrong,because americans must be subhuman to europe if they sit there and say that crap.

[Longinius 1]

"I hope it wasn't me,That did it.It's just i had to say something about subhuman thing.If americans soldiers risking their life ,why shouldn't some europe nations soldiers be with those US soldiers ,Europe like to comment about how america should do this and not do this,well why isn't europe(some nations) in africa(Somalia) right now beating some heads down,other then commenting that americans don't care about africans because they are subhuman is wrong,because americans must be subhuman to europe if they sit there and say that crap."

The reason I wrote subhuman was because the poster I quoted said that the US pulled out when they started taking losses, because it wasnt worth it. If that isnt viewing Somalis as inferior and subAmerican then I dont know what is.

[LauryThorn 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If americans soldiers [are] risking their life<span id='postcolor'>

Maybe they should ask theirselves, why are they doing it.

[foxer 0]

anyways,what was this topic about again ?

Remember when bush was running for president,he said "the dems hurt the military" "the military is crap" ,and other crap.But i say the military is doing pretty good job.and you don't hear that stuff from the Reps anymore.I find it funny though,how they talk about how bad the military is and now their doing a good job in afghanistan.No one even bring this up though.I think bush is gone though ,in 2004.

[USSoldier11B 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And another good thread turned into a country bashing one... <span id='postcolor'>

Yeah...that's why I quit posting in it. All I did was defend my country. I didn't attack anyone else's. Anyways, these kind of threads always get foolish.

[KingBeast 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (foxer @ July 18 2002,11:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">OK,but where is frace,brits,germany,other europe nations,they love to talk about how great their military is,but they are scared to act without the US.<span id='postcolor'>

Well thats kind of ignorant talk really. I think off the top of my head, i would have to say that France and Britain at least do a hell of a lot of peacekeeping, and plenty of them die for it. As for military action, Britain and probably even france (germany too) are usually in the thick of things, you just dont hear about it like you hear things about the US. I bet european secret services are glad not to need agents in the US, what with the secrets always being out in the open

[Oligo 1]

Same goes for Finland and Sweden also. We do a lot of peace-keeping. Even as we elongate this moronic thread, there are soldiers from our countries keeping peace somewhere (Kosovo for example), just like there are soldiers from U.S. and so forth.

The arguments always follows this track:

-Euro: WTF you U.S. always attacking Iraq and shit?

-U.S.: We do it for peace and democracy.

-Euro: BS, you do it for oil!

-U.S.: No we do it for peace and democracy!

-Euro: If you do it for peace and democracy, why the fuck aren't you keeping peace and democracy in China and Africa and such?

-U.S.: Why the fuck aren't you euro mice sending your troops to keep the peace and democracy? Our poor U.S. soldiers always have to die for peace and democracy, because you won't do it!

-Euro: We fucking keep the peace all the time!

-U.S.: Yeah, with our goddamn money! We run NATO almost completely alone!

-Euro: But you evil fucks don't pay your U.N. debts!

-U.S.: Maybe that's because we give all this fucking money to all these fucking poor countries!

-Euro: But we fucking give more money per capita than you goddamn do!

et cetera ad infinitum

[KingBeast 0]

Wow, all of a sudden im reminiscing abotu watching movies that star Joe Pesci

But quite right you are, a lot of europeans do the whole peacekeeping thing and it seems that this isnt acknowledged at all.

[R. Gerschwarzenge 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KingBeast @ July 18 2002,14:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But quite right you are, a lot of europeans do the whole peacekeeping thing and it seems that this isnt acknowledged at all.<span id='postcolor'>

Maybe this isn't acknowledged because they're not on the news all the time. They only make it to the news when they fail to keep peace and a small conflict happens.