TAB lock issue ...

[dm 9]

where you can see even 2km away ?

Tell that to Cpl Craig Harrison. (protip: he shot 2 people ~2500m away with a sniper rifle)

There is nice yt channel FUNKER530 how war looks like.

You have got to stop basing everything on what you see on youtube.

Even then, half of the vids Funkers posts up show view distances all the way out to the horizon (60 km)

[kotov12345 10]

Tell that to Cpl Craig Harrison. (protip: he shot 2 people ~2500m away with a sniper rifle)

lool - do you have game at all ? I never saw you in game.7556 trolling out of reality posts

[dm 9]

lool - do you have game at all ?

I hope this answers your question (horrible compression to fit the archaic 100 kb rule):

Bear in mind that Stratis is 1/10th the size that Altis will be...

I never saw you in game.

Well thats just cause I only play with people I like :)

reality posts

I try my best.

[Die neunte Seele 10]

look at this, 1:25

[twistking 204]

i agree, that the tab-lock and magic radar are stupid and should be replaced by a new system. preferably a realistic solution, but if the devs want to stay more arcadish with the weapon lock-on + radar, i would even be happy if the potential new system would be inspired by any modern arcade-flightsim or even the battlefield series.

the system we got since ofp is not only unrealistic, much worse, it is no fun, because one you learned to basically maneuver the helicopter, the number of tanks you can easily destroy is only limited by the number of missles you carry.

this also makes playing as forward observer pointless.

has someone of you played the hinds dlc of take on helicopters? i wonder how fire control was handled in that game. i imagine the pip-feature of toh/arma3 could make for some immersive and challenging air-to ground combat.

(from what i've seen in the videos, i already love the pip for aiming the heavy weapons on the armored jeeps. give it the option to change view mode and zoom and it's near perfect!)

*edit* honestly i think that we will see improvments on that topics till release. i think so, because the infantry-aspect seems so improved already and i guess you could say "polished", that every other of the "old habits" of arma would seem even more outdated in arma 3.

but just to be sure: what would be the preferred way to tell the devs about our wishes for arma 3? would it be threads like this one, or can we use the alpha issue-tracker for wishes?

Edited March 9, 2013 by twistking

[[frl]myke 14]

I agree that we should get rid off this arcadish TABLOCK and go for a more serious, realism-inspired solution. This would include JSTARS and AWACS, proper datalink between capable vehicles (which might be more in the future than actual) and also a FCS which reflects already existing technologies. This includes automated target reconnaissance, threat weighting, automated target lists which can be cycled through by the Operator (gunner, pilot etc) so the highest threat will be automatically targetted first and the proper weapon automatically selected. I guess this "cycle through target" function could be tied to a simple button like TAB. So as a Pilot of a modern air combat vehicle, all i would have to do realistcaly, is to lock target and pull the trigger.

Way much better than the arcadish TABLOCK as it is now.

[On_Sabbatical 11]

Exactly,and to be honest ,i don't think that BIS will try to do something like in flying simulators as you mentioned above,but at least they can make it a bit more challenging to target something ... and in worst cases, include some scripting commands to allow disabling TABlock completely,so we can script our own targetting ways without having to use external mods !

I managed and Die neunte Seele to make a more challenging way to target on arma 2,but we lacked some way to disable TABlock,check this video (the quality is bad),but you can see that i put a small crosshair on the target before i shoot ... it's not really realistic but it's more challenging and requires you to have complete visual on target !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGjcqwVAHF0

or this :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGUjfAm2mts

[[frl]myke 14]

Maybe read again what i wrote. Read it slowly so you don't miss a point.

[dm 9]

Myke;2334359']Maybe read again what i wrote. Read it slowly so you don't miss a point.

So delicious.

[On_Sabbatical 11]

Myke;2334359']Maybe read again what i wrote. Read it slowly so you don't miss a point.

You dont get my point as i see !

I recognize those systems ' date='but i am talking about the way you're going to lock on the target (in ArmA we have already our magic Radar,so targets are already acquired) ... and don't try to defend the fact that it's just a matter of pressing a button :) ... and even more,AWACs or JSTARS is not always available ...

And,finally ... this is a game and TAB lock is no good from a gameplay point of view !

[url']

[/url]

This video shows a BVR engagement ... check how he chooses targets on the radar before getting a lock !

Edited March 13, 2013 by On_Sabbatical

[[frl]myke 14]

and even more,AWACs or JSTARS is not always available

It doesn't require AWACS and JSTARS, it is common technology that vehicles can share their sensor data though Link16. AH-64 Longbow and F-22 just to name two. They can share their sensor data with other Link16 capable units and they can use these data to lock their weapons on it, even if their own sensors didn't recognized them yet. What makes you think that future tech will be worse?

and don't try to defend the fact that it's just a matter of pressing a button

If it is a fact, i don't see why i should have to defend it. Fact is fact.

in ArmA we have already our magic Radar

That radar goes not far enough. Vehicles should be capable to share it's data and weapons should be able to lock targets based on this shared data.

[On_Sabbatical 11]

Myke;2334466']

If it is a fact' date=' i don't see why i should have to defend it. Fact is fact.

[/quote']

Man,you reasoning supposes that we have those advanced systems :D,there is no AWACS or JSTARS or a system of target transferring between vehicles or anti air radars ... just autonomous planes and helis and some kind of RADAR showing targets and classifying them without any justification ... Mandoble understood this point and made his script following this vision ...

I just want you to imagine a situation in which two guys are having a training on an Apache :D ... how would they use it to destroy targets ... don't tell me that they're going to mobilize an AWACS for them (well maybe apache is not a well suited example)!

[Beagle 684]

Jstars and AWACS is not just press tab for lock...even with those system up the pilot needs to get individual lock for the individual warhead of the individual missile. DCS is showing this very good...just because your AWACS, JSTAR or EWR network tell you over and over again there is a enemy Helo around you does not mean you will be able to lock him. Thats even more true for Vehicles hiding in Urban clutter, those are a real horror to löock...most of the time a MANPADS or IRSAM or simply a ATGM will lock you way before and ifg youre hoveetring stationary to scan block by block flares won't help you anymore to escape the expanding rod warhead.

But well...DCS is a Simulation, ArmA just a better arcade shooter

Edited March 13, 2013 by Beagle

[[frl]myke 14]

Fairchild Republic A-10 was produced from 1975 to 1986, not what i would call "state-of-the-art" technology. No doubt, a powerful and deadly plane but we're speaking about technology.

just because your AWACS, JSTAR or EWR network tell you over and over again there is a enemy Helo around you does not mean you will be able to lock him.

Oh, i do hope that this time BI will introduce a proper simulation of the AIM-9X, which will be interesting with the F-35 or AH-1Z HMD. You wouldn't even have to press TAB as the Sidewinder will automatically lock the nearest target you're looking at. I imagine that Quazdar will have nightmares now. ;)

Also proper LOAL modes for the AGM-114K with terrain following capabilities...oh, i'm dreaming. I do also hope for proper BVR this time, finally something my AIM-54 and AIM-120 can use.

[bigshot 64]

you know...granted, everyone wants the game to play the way THEY want it to play for their own personal reasons (myself included) but you have to realize a couple things here:

1. what you are talking about doing here (although it sounds cool) would mean further complicating an already over-complicated (and under-documented) control scheme that in its current state is still scaring away the majority of new players trying the game for the first time. NOT a good idea for a default model and for this reason alone should most probably be implemented as either a -mod only or as a tickable option in the class difficulty settings.

2. The OFP/Arma franchise has always been developed mainly based upon the concept of Human -vs- AI gameplay, yet again what you are talking about here would drastically effect this experience in a negative way UNLESS the AI are also forced to abide by the same mechanics as the human players so things don't get more unbalanced than they already have become (the new shooting mechanics have NOT been imposed onto the AI) and this of course means having to use even more cpu cycles in an old engine that's already being pushed beyond it's performance limits IMO.

Therefore, IMO...this sort of realism should be a mod instead of a default rule...and it's best use would be in a PvP scenario as it's not worth the extra cpu cycles it would require for AI implementation.

[SmallBlackSheep 0]

Yeah, I don't like TAB locking either. Something like Mando would be awesome. For those who don't know what Mando missile mod is:

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=8243

mando was great. greatly enhanced the lock-on "minigame". it wasn't too hard either, still manageable

[maturin 12]

Everyone bear in mind that no mod has successfully been able to implement a replacement for tab-lock.

Mando is great, but it flat-out doesn't work without good fps. ACE has always insisted on performance-friendly features when it comes to FCS, but even their laser-guided Hellfires are hamstrung by the engine. Try and hit a moving vehicle with a K-model and you'll see what I mean.

This stuff is too deep in the engine to be fixed by even the best modders we have, especially at the UI and controls level.

And for fuck's sake it doesn't have to be that complicated. Believe it or not, when I launch Mavericks in Lock On, I press tab as well! It's just a matter of slewing the targeting pod camera near the vehicle first, plus a normal zoom key. We have RTT now, remember.

[On_Sabbatical 11]

you know...granted, everyone wants the game to play the way THEY want it to play for their own personal reasons (myself included) but you have to realize a couple things here:

1. what you are talking about doing here (although it sounds cool) would mean further complicating an already over-complicated (and under-documented) control scheme that in its current state is still scaring away the majority of new players trying the game for the first time. NOT a good idea for a default model and for this reason alone should most probably be implemented as either a -mod only or as a tickable option in the class difficulty settings.

It's not really personal ... i have played ArmA 2 over 10000 hours (according to steam :P),99% was on MP and especially warfare ... and i know how this TAB lock is making games really crappy for players ... since,helicopters and their with their A,B,C handling ,no damage model and TAB targetting system are so easy to use ... and the player needs just to have enough IQ to stay away and press TAB to kill evrything that moves on the map ...

We don't want to remove things to solve the problem,or to limit ranges ... we want just to have a game in which having AIR (because TAB lock affects air more than any other vehicle or launcher) doesn't necessarely mean dominating ... we want people to have the chance to use stealth tactics for example even when TABvehicles are up ...

I am sure that if you manage to get under an apache with M16 you would be able to disable the heli's avionics and targetting ... but it's impossible with TABlock since the guy will just ask his lovely AI ... "Target that maaaan AT 06" and the AI will get that square on you even if the player hasn't seen you ...

This is why i think that ArmA without a proper targetting system and a proper vehicle damage models ... will never take itself to the next level !

---------- Post added at 05:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:06 PM ----------

Myke;2334557']

Oh' date=' i do hope that this time BI will introduce a proper simulation of the AIM-9X, which will be interesting with the F-35 or AH-1Z HMD. You wouldn't even have to press TAB as the Sidewinder will automatically lock the nearest target you're looking at. I imagine that Quazdar will have nightmares now. ;)

[/quote']

Man,i wouldn't mind that,if the vehicles has that technology in real life then why not ... really it's just that your lovely TABlock makes a HIND-V similar to a AH1Z (both use TABlock the same way) ... even worse;HIND V is more useful in some cases ... which is not real actually.

Another example is the Metis VS Javelin ... most of players i know would say :Yes,Metis is far better than Javelin ... because it locks instantly and goes to target . While in real life the thing should be manually guided !

Edited March 13, 2013 by On_Sabbatical

[maturin 12]

I am sure that if you manage to get under an apache with M16 you would be able to disable the heli's avionics and targetting ... but it's impossible with TABlock since the guy will just ask his lovely AI ... "Target that maaaan AT 06" and the AI will get that square on you even if the player hasn't seen you ...

I don't do that with tab-lock, I do it with the targeting menu. And nothing needs to change when it comes to controlling AI gunners, as they are realistically handling all the weapon systems anyways. Of course, giving them a slight delay, removing the gamey UI and enforcing stability parameters on the launch platform would be nice...

[Beagle 684]

DCS is about the A-10C, Su-25T and Ka-50. All of those are 21. century birds.

[On_Sabbatical 11]

I don't do that with tab-lock, I do it with the targeting menu. And nothing needs to change when it comes to controlling AI gunners, as they are realistically handling all the weapon systems anyways. Of course, giving them a slight delay, removing the gamey UI and enforcing stability parameters on the launch platform would be nice...

Yeah TABlock includes all those targetting ways (TAB,2-list and Right Click) :D

[bigshot 64]

Yea but, ive never been able to lock onto a foot patrol ...only vehicles. Also the existing mods that change the target locking system are great fun to use (i.e. Mando) and I really enjoy them at times but lets be honest...it's use does NOT require a higher skill level...in fact IMO it REDUCES the skill level necessary in killing ground vehicles from a chopper because it allows you to lock on much further away than the default lock system, letting you stay at a safer range and get even more kills without having to do any fancy flying. It's good at increasing pilot workload because the control scheme associated with it is more complicated than default (and again, as a default requirement its a terrible idea for BIS...it must remain an option only, or a mod).

...and again lets not forget this is a franchise mainly and originally focussed upon fighting AI...and programming something of this nature into AI is not yet feasible with today's technology...the performance hit is not worth the trouble. So again...it becomes a PvP feature....and the day that BIS starts prioritizing for PvP over AI is the day that I and countless others will walk away for good.

Edited March 13, 2013 by BigShot

[On_Sabbatical 11]

Well,you can send a Mk82 from 5 km altitude to a guy that your AI reports using target list ... hopefully,this will change with CCP,but things needs to be improved in arma 3 :D

[maturin 12]

Yeah TABlock includes all those targetting ways (TAB,2-list and Right Click) :D

So how would you suggest we assign targets to our AI gunners (who have spotted things fair and square, btw)?

And why are you flying with AI in PvP anyways? Surely at least 60% of the people in any given server want to be in the gunship.

...and again lets not forget this is a franchise mainly and originally focussed upon fighting AI...and programming something of this nature into AI is not yet feasible with today's technology...the performance hit is not worth the trouble. So again...it becomes a PvP feature....and the day that BIS starts prioritizing for PvP over AI is the day that I and countless others will walk away for good.

The idea that FCS will detract from or slow down AI doesn't pass the straight face test.

But take it from a card-carrying AI-lover... when the hell has BIS EVER prioritized their AI?!?

[Alistair 10]

They need to come up with something harder. :)