Take Downs.

[mrcash2009 0]

If memory serves from Arma2 requests, Ivan should turn up soon to destroy this thread with a AT4 :)

[Pulverizer 1]

Some basic DayZ slashing would be cool. No need to overcomplicate things. Of course it shouldn't be silent like DayZ even with a fatal blow in the cranium, but still stealthier than shooting an unsupressed rifle.

[lordswift 1]

Yes definately agree on some sort of melee of bayonets! They are still used today on weapons so why wouldn't they be used in the near future! Or even a knife equip option. As long as its a weapon and not a slash attack like in other games!

[NeuroFunker 11]

An alright, fair,balanced takedown would be good. But i REALLY dont think it can be fit in this game. AI is too smart, theyll notice you before youre in a 10m radius.

Players will always look around and search for other players. Its been only a few times on ARMA 3 ive come close to an enemy player. But i shoot them at a little distance, because im afraid theyll turn around and shoot me when im not ready for it.

i agree about AI, they already see you far away, even you sneaking up the town from cover to cover. But i do not agree about MP, as you could read in my first message, i was playing for few hours wasteland, and i had a LOT of situations, where simple takedown could work. Especially when someone is looting a dead body or car trunk. I was missing a take down so much at this moments. There were also a lot of situations, where people were simply running forward without looking around, and i could sneak up on them and shoot at back of the head.

[metalcraze 290]

I'm not going to play your little game Rye :)

Then you go by an average. BIS works on a damage formula. It's not "How many GSW's did X take?" or "Let's study wound ballistics and put it in game!". They just have a damage value, I'd agree with that value being lower than others to prevent the instant kill bullcrap seen in other games. I'd also agree with a mini-game being out of the question for vanilla. ACE on the other hand, maybe so - as you could call the medical side a mini-game too as an example.

There's nothing minigamish about ACE medic. You don't Tap (A)wesome button to heal. You apply what's necessary.

Dude you and other people all say "durr don't make it 1 hit kill like in BF3 but still do it" but you never suggest how it can be done.

And what will be the point in just hacking at the target with a knife when CoD-kids here want their T4k3d0wNz?

If they wanted realistic stuff they wouldn't be asking for their leet takedowns in the first place.

Dude, don't say SWAT. LE operate totally differently. On the other hand if you really want to go there then look at German MEK/SEK who carry co-holsters with pistol and fixed blade. POs mainly carry folding for utility. If you're going to relate it to LE you're going off-topic. A warfare scenario goes out of the question. You need opportunity to conduct this kind of work and with opportunity comes the increased knowledge of use. For example Fallujah, Ramadi. For example ARMA 3 over ARMA 2. Three ingredients: Intent, opportunity, ability.

Please bro, I brought SWAT as an example because CQB is all they mostly see.

Unfortunately right now it's a static event and a bit... slow so I'd end up dead (on the other hand pistol operability is very very good!).

Getting killed is part of the game. Tough luck there. Adapt/survive/win if we are going to spill ArmA3 marketspeak here.

If I had the option of a combatives transition, I may take it over the other if I was close enough to run towards the enemy and get close enough; hence why it's usually a room clearance selective way of operating. If I move into the room and conduct a take down, push or punch then that's extra options for a specific aspect of the game. Again. Intent, opportunity, ability.

After breaching the room IRL the infantry for some reason rushes in there armed with their carbines, not with knives. Can you tell me why?

But i do not agree about MP, as you could read in my first message, i was playing for few hours wasteland, and i had a LOT of situations, where simple takedown could work. Especially when someone is looting a dead body or car trunk. I was missing a take down so much at this moments. There were also a lot of situations, where people were simply running forward without looking around, and i could sneak up on them and shoot at back of the head.

So why don't you just shoot those people? It's much more effective than a knife that doesn't kill.

Edited March 8, 2013 by metalcraze

[Pulverizer 1]

It's the year 2030 so maybe they have high-voltage/neurotoxin knives that allow any soldier to perform a silent takedown effortlessly.

[keefehb 0]

What about throwing stars?

[NeuroFunker 11]

So why don't you just shoot those people?

i've got options?

It's much more effective than a knife that doesn't kill.

it is, if you don't care about being heard kilometers away.

---------- Post added at 17:15 ---------- Previous post was at 17:13 ----------

What about throwing stars?

i've got ur irony. ;)

[Corporal_Hicks 1]

no need for take downs but YES FOR MELEE.

Hell yeah. We are a god damn soldier - we know various martial arts, why we can't break the neck of other guy from behind then <.<

[metalcraze 290]

i've got options?

Yes. Shoot him. Clean headshot = insta kill.

it is, if you don't care about being heard kilometers away.

You mean like when the dude who is getting stabbed screams because of pain, his whole body twitching and pulling the trigger of his weapon due to reflex? That's really silent I agree, not like suppressed pistol headshot.

ArmA3 this is how you should be

Edited March 8, 2013 by metalcraze

[NeuroFunker 11]

Hell yeah. We are a god damn soldier - we know various martial arts, why we can't break the neck of other guy from behind then <.<

i barely think, soldiers can break necks? Rather a special unit can. I was thinking it would be nice, special forces had special skills compared to soldiers, like cranking neck for example, and whatever stuff SF units can do in reality, but maybe it is not so important/technically hard to do.

---------- Post added at 17:38 ---------- Previous post was at 17:32 ----------

Yes. Shoot him. Clean headshot = insta kill.

woah, i've never would think of that! But i've ask u again, do you always have a silencer with you?

You mean like when the dude who is getting stabbed screams because of pain, his whole body twitching and pulling the trigger of his weapon due to reflex? That's really silent I agree, not like suppressed pistol headshot.

as someone mentioned before, when you slit throats, people can barely scream after that, proof me if thats wrong.

ArmA3 this is how you should be

not sure if trolling...

[Maxzy 12]

No f-ing way!!! Takedowns are stupid.

[Shatter3D_S0uL 1]

Sure,why not?Melee combat is something that bothered me for Arma.There are many situations you want to be stealthy and silent and you can't.

[Maxzy 12]

when you slit throats, people can barely scream after that, proof me if thats wrong.

Nevetheless its much MUCH easier to shoot someone in the back of the head then slit his throat. MUCH easier. And by the way - you're wrong ;).

[NeuroFunker 11]

Nevetheless its much MUCH easier to shoot someone in the back of the head then slit his throat. MUCH easier. And by the way - you're wrong ;).

we are talking about stealth and optionality, don't you think it is to limited, shooting someone when you could take him down instead? And you also forgot, that you arent always carrying a silencer with you, do you? Btw i'm wrong? Рче так?))

[metalcraze 290]

woah, i've never would think of that! But i've ask u again, do you always have a silencer with you?

If you want to do it in a more silent fashion - why don't you have one?

as someone mentioned before, when you slit throats, people can barely scream after that, proof me if thats wrong.

I take it slitting the throat is instakill too? The dude won't struggle with you? He won't pull the trigger as a reflex or even trying to shoot you?

Slitting the throat doesn't kill, choking on blood does as it fills the lungs.

we are talking about stealth and optionality, don't you think it is to limited, shooting someone when you could take him down instead?

Dude knife is anything but stealthy. Unless you are knifing an unarmed dude who is also alone, deaf, mute and blind and can't hear and see you coming.

FYI it isn't stealth where you go around killing people. Stealth is when nobody knows you were there to begin with.

Edited March 8, 2013 by metalcraze

[Maxzy 12]

we are talking about stealth and optionality, don't you think it is to limited, shooting someone when you could take him down instead? And you also forgot, that you arent always carrying a silencer with you, do you? Btw i'm wrong? Рче так?))

Да ниче =)). Just go to some village and try to slit throat of some pig and hear how it doesn't scream after that =)). I think youre gonna be somewhat surprised ;). And after all I consider this feature just not needed in this game - like, lets say, jumping. If you are playing as some special forces you have your silencer and if you are playing as simple infantry soldier you don't need it because it's unlikely youre gonna end up in a situation where you need it =).

[MaceUK71 0]

What about throwing them too? So at the start of the 'round' we can all throw them in the air and see who we hit! Actually I think the maps are too big for this, so if we could have really small maps where we can run around like nutters and when the jumping gets added I can do kewl, leet 360 no scopes with my sniper. Pew, pew.

FFS seriously........

[bugkill 7]

Why stop at knives?

Why not tomahawks for some of that arab street cred.

Funny that you bring that up because I actually got one issued to me during our deployment. Look, the knife in the game would be practical if there were more to the gameplay than just combat. Knives are used for survival as well which is something that the Arma series could consider down the road. The beauty about Arma games is that we are allowed to create whatever scenario we see fit, so I think that there is potential in having a knife, but then we would need there to be more added to the gameplay like the ability kill animals and use the knife to simulate cutting the meat and using it to replenish health. Yes, it sounds a lot like Skyrim, but guess what? Arma games are similar to Skyrim (except with guns and bullets) and that is a great thing.

If knives are added, we need there to be an application of its use to be beyond just slitting throats and doing takedowns. I have zero problem with the idea of adding knives and I'm not worried that it would turn Arma 3 into BF3 because the way this game is built, it just won't happen like that. Remember, Arma games can be about military simulations or survival simulations. I think it would be great for the game to include it and it will only make it better.

---------- Post added at 12:23 ---------- Previous post was at 12:21 ----------

What about throwing them too? So at the start of the 'round' we can all throw them in the air and see who we hit! Actually I think the maps are too big for this, so if we could have really small maps where we can run around like nutters and when the jumping gets added I can do kewl, leet 360 no scopes with my sniper. Pew, pew.

FFS seriously........

Lol. If you are ever in a situation where you only have your knife for survival, you ain't throwing it, brother.

[NeuroFunker 11]

actually i don't know why are we stuck to knives, as thread title says "take downs" doesn't necessary means knives only.

[Maxzy 12]

actually i don't know why are we stuck to knives, as thread title says "take downs" doesn't necessary means knives only.

Buttstock to the skull base =)?

[NeuroFunker 11]

обÑзательно!)) you ask me? :) Just post your suggestions.

[WarMachine45 10]

Lol yeah have an animation where the two players have to struggle tapping a key like 'W' to fight over a plunging a knife into the other. The person being attacked has less than 2 seconds to react or he is instantly killed.

[AdamWayne 1]

While I agree with the idea of adding melee, I don't want it to turn into a BF3-style insta-takedown or a CoD-style slash-fest.

This starts when you're within 1 meter (or arm's length, whatever you prefer) you get a menu option of "Knife". This can be done from any direction, but the likelihood of getting in someone's face who has a gun ready is low. The Knife option starts a QTE event between the players. Let's say player A starts the chain against Player B. Once A hits "Knife", B gets a QTE of W A S or D. Successfully hitting the correct key keeps the attacker from killing you. It then goes to the attacker, and if he hits the correct key, the fight continues. If player B then hits the wrong key, they are killed. but, if A hits the wrong key as an attacker, he's overtaken and is now on the defense while B is now attacking. If A now hits wrong, A is killed. This lasts as long as both players keep hitting the right (or wrong, or no) keys.

Make sense?

A: "Knife"

B: OK

A: OK

B: OK

A: OK

B: Wrong

B: Dead

A: "Knife"

B: OK

A: Wrong

Turnover

B: OK

A: Wrong

A: Dead

The fighting animations can be cobbled together from 4 or 5 different individual grappling animations. The "Knife" option is only added to a mission by the editor, and only applies to units/groups synced to the module.

I actually really like this implementation. But yeah, I do believe that there should be some sort of melee and implementation of melee weapons. Not just for the core game, but what the possibilities could be with mods. That, and I've always wanted to plunge a 7-inch blade into someone's wind-pipe in an arma game. Preferably this.

[Kindling 1]

It'd be nice to have some Krav Maga type stuff. This might sound silly, but if two players from opposite factions turned a corner and ended up face-to-face, a small quicktime rock-paper-scissors competition (perhaps with a front kick (long range that would stagger the opponent and send them backwards a short distance),

(close range that would incapacitate an opponent) or a bayonet-type stab with a rifle nozzle (medium range that would interrupt an opponent and stagger them, but for a shorter duration than the front kick). The player (or NPC) that did the 'correct' attack for the distance (with considerations, eg a kick would take longer than a stab) would then be in a position to shoot their opponent. This retains a competitive aspect while providing a more realistic situation for very close quarter CQB but I'm not sure if it could fit into the engine.

As for physical attacks from a player behind an opponent, a simple animation and keybind would be fine - the specific technique used would be context-dependent (rifle strangle, pistol to the head and choke or whatever).

Of course, a knife is also a perfectly reasonable addition that would work for the latter.