Better animations?

[Muscular Beaver 0]

Some people say ArmA 3 has better animations now.

I agree somewhat, but then again, I dont.

Yes, a lot of animations are more fluid now, but they also look more unnatural. For example walking or running. While ArmA 2 was pretty much perfect at those, aside from running with a side arm in hand. In ArmA 3 models seem to slide a lot and the animations often dont fit the movement speed.

Turning animations also dont look as smooth and natural as in ArmA 2.

I hope this is still due to alpha phase, but I really dont know how people can call it generally better animations.

[EvenLease 11]

They ARE better animations, that's how I can say it.

/itsanalpha

[chortles 263]

Some people say ArmA 3 has better animations now.

I agree somewhat, but then again, I dont.

Yes, a lot of animations are more fluid now, but they also look more unnatural. For example walking or running. While ArmA 2 was pretty much perfect at those, aside from running with a side arm in hand. In ArmA 3 models seem to slide a lot and the animations often dont fit the movement speed.

Turning animations also dont look as smooth and natural as in ArmA 2.

I hope this is still due to alpha phase, but I really dont know how people can call it generally better animations.

Seems like quite a few people were willing to trade off "natural" (according to your definition thereof) for "fluid", if anything that even seems to have become a bit of a selling point. ;)

[Muscular Beaver 0]

Someone here posted a video about footsteps not being in sync. You can see a very good example in that video of how unnatural it looks. The model slides, moving faster than the animations are.

So much for "my definition thereof".

[cotton 1]

i am just glad that close quarters are doable now... it can be refined a bit more however; but from the standpoint of looking natural; arma 2 didnt look or feel natural. felt like a refrigerator trying to move around. I have never felt like that when i have my plate carrier on and m4 in hand.

[chortles 263]

i am just glad that close quarters are doable now...

This alone is reason enough for me to not mind "footsteps not being in sync".

[nmdanny 22]

I haven't noticed any problems with the new animations, but I do know that they are way better than ArmA 2, they're much more fluid which is a huge improvement, even if they don't look as realistic.

[max power 21]

i am just glad that close quarters are doable now... it can be refined a bit more however; but from the standpoint of looking natural; arma 2 didnt look or feel natural. felt like a refrigerator trying to move around. I have never felt like that when i have my plate carrier on and m4 in hand.

I think the reason it could not be done by most people before is most people didn't know of the secret duckwalk button. They have the same thing now only it's some ridiculously fast run with your gun out. In fact, most of the new animations are extremely fast. I think maybe too fast. The AI look kind of like film sped up like in an black and white comedy chase sequence when you watch them move.

[chortles 263]

They have both the walk and the jog-with-weapon-up, and I'm perfectly happy with the new animations being so fast... hell, it's one of the things that I've been promoting about the game to outsiders... though I'll note that at the moment, it seems like the "sway/bob" with the jog (or when moving while looking through optics) is still high enough to make walk or stationary superior for long-range combat; I thought it was pretty clear that, especially when there's talk (I believe by Dyslecxi) of jog-with-weapon-up costing fatigue but walk not costing fatigue, that jog-with-weapon-up is meant for "limited use", i.e. in urban CQB.

[nesponge 0]

feels like you are walking about on an ice rink...

I absolutely hate it.

If they could maybe bring it closer to ARMA2 without going the whole hog, perhaps they would please both camps?

[max power 21]

though I'll note that at the moment, it seems like the "sway/bob" with the jog (or when moving while looking through optics) is still high enough to make walk or stationary superior for long-range combat; I thought it was pretty clear that, especially when there's talk (I believe by Dyslecxi) of jog-with-weapon-up costing fatigue but walk not costing fatigue, that jog-with-weapon-up is meant for "limited use", i.e. in urban CQB.

Whatever your preference is, it's not realistic and I don't believe it was meant to be... which may represent a design issue for fans of the series.

[Muscular Beaver 0]

Yeah, I agree with Max Power, that with duck-walk close quarters were no issue before. It was kinda too slow, though, but this now is far too fast. Its sad to see that all the whiners from other games got their will... "Wah wah, its so clunky, and I cant play it because I am only used to CS-like controls".

I played a bit more, and its even more evident now that the animations look very stiff and unnatural, again, too fast. I mean turn on your 3rd person and watch your char go. Its silly. I feel kinda ashamed showing people this "new improved ArmA", while ArmA 2 looks so superior. The whole game now feels pretty cheap because of that, like a generic shooter. Also graphics arent that great. Textures, even on ultra, are very blurry on distance (like hill textures - making the whole scenery look very artificial) and most trees look like green blobs on medium to high distance.

So far I am pretty disappointed and almost regret paying for the supporter edition, but again, I strongly hope this is only due to alpha status.

[chortles 263]

Whereas I'm specifically using the new animations and speed/fluidity of the animations, i.e. as demonstrated in Dyslecxi's videos, as what I use to show off Arma 3 to people and promote Arma 3 with; I'm happy as hell with it and I look forward to supporting it.

[max power 21]

v = d/t. Why not just make the island smaller?

[John_Lennon 10]

The Animations are much more fluid now! It'll be possible to play CQB again, like it was in OFP :-D ... Thanks Bohemia for that huge step forward! ...its the perfect mix between "military simulation" and "gameplay".

GGX John Lennon - OFP VET :-D

[Beagle 684]

I think the reason it could not be done by most people before is most people didn't know of the secret duckwalk button. They have the same thing now only it's some ridiculously fast run with your gun out. In fact, most of the new animations are extremely fast. I think maybe too fast. The AI look kind of like film sped up like in an black and white comedy chase sequence when you watch them move.

the trend to faster animations came midst in ArmA OA 1.56...I still think plain old ArmA had it right...no spider speed soldiers.

---------- Post added at 08:27 ---------- Previous post was at 08:25 ----------

The Animations are much more fluid now! It'll be possible to play CQB again, like it was in OFP :-D ... Thanks Bohemia for that huge step forward! ...its the perfect mix between "military simulation" and "gameplay".

GGX John Lennon - OFP VET :-D

CQC in OFP was not half as good as in A2...OFP did not even had a lean function or A.I. that was able to use a wall at all.

[chortles 263]

The Animations are much more fluid now! It'll be possible to play CQB again, like it was in OFP :-D ... Thanks Bohemia for that huge step forward! ...its the perfect mix between "military simulation" and "gameplay".

GGX John Lennon - OFP VET :-D

Bro-fist, welcome aboard man! Seriously though, I think it's clear that when Jay (was it?) talked about "game" and not just "sim", he meant something by that... just like how how free-aim/aiming-deadzone is turned off by default*, how mouse acceleration and smoothing are more like a generic shooter (I believe Vespa used the term "fps standard"), just like how the majority of the mo-cap was done by the guy behind SMK Animations, just like how "fluidity of movement" was specifically cited in Jay's definition of "accessible" in his forums sig... I don't think it's just "people invading this game from the outside" who're behind this. ;)

(Hell, I don't think it's a coincidence that Dyslecxi, with his particular opinion on controls and infantry movement/shooting, was the one to debut Arma 3 Alpha infantry gameplay video with his "Movement & Shooting Tutorial" and thereby give the world-first 'what to expect' first impression.)

* Funny thing is, the reason free-aim wasn't shown in the E3/Gamescom videos? Because Jay Crowe himself doesn't use it.

[max power 21]

Firstly, you're name dropping like it's going out of style, man. Like because someone thinks something, I should agree with that. Neither Jay Crowe or Dsl are authorities over my opinions. Their opinions are valid, and certainly should be heard, but I don't necessarily think they should be the building blocks for someone else's opinion based on the value of the names alone. I think the information contained in their argument is more important than the name of the person who said it.

Secondly, you're equating movement speed with accessibility which I think is not correct. You can have something moving fluidly without it being too fast. My previous point was that by increasing the movement speed you are effectively making the island smaller. There is no difference between scaling up the movement speed or scaling down the distance travelled.

Edited March 6, 2013 by Max Power

[Muscular Beaver 0]

Kinda ironic how all animations are much faster now, but when you have to go prone quickly, that animation is much slower than in ArmA 2 and just cost me my life.

[Vespa 1]

In next update of the Alpha, there will be slight tweak of movement speeds - particularly sprinting will be slowed down.

The other speed issue, I believe it concerns the combat pace while in sights? In that case, you don't need to use it at all - in controls options, just assign "toggle walk/run" to RMB and it will override. The whole controls scheme is yet to be properly fleshed out, so no panic!

[dm 9]

they also look more unnatural. For example walking or running. While ArmA 2 was pretty much perfect at those

The A2 running animations were an abomination.

Once the speed issues (a config issue) with the A3 anims are sorted, they will be spot on.

[chortles 263]

In next update of the Alpha, there will be slight tweak of movement speeds - particularly sprinting will be slowed down.

The other speed issue, I believe it concerns the combat pace while in sights? In that case, you don't need to use it at all - in controls options, just assign "toggle walk/run" to RMB and it will override. The whole controls scheme is yet to be properly fleshed out, so no panic!

Slowing down sprinting? It's an interesting idea, but have you already ruled out tweaking sprint duration (i.e. based on encumbrance/fatigue) as a solution?

I have a question: If I recall correctly, Smookie told me after Gamescom that combat pace did not work when using sights, that "in sights" would force the character to walk speed -- did you guys change this between Gamescom and the public alpha release?? :o

[smookie 11]

Oh, I made someone feel ashamed for showing ArmA3 :(

The animations as they are now are full of compromises to create a proper, reasonable and hopefully consistent experience for the user. As the guy who made SMK animations, I can only say that not all of my ideas made it through yet I feel positive about the outcome of things that did. With all the restrictions imposed (also due to features of general design like the consistent 1st and 3rd person animations = same file), I am pretty happy about the result of general movement. It has gone a really long way and will surely be worked on more in future, also on the movement speed part.

And special Hi to GGX member from an extremely-short-time ex-member;)

[metalcraze 290]

OA running animations with-a-rifle were fine. They were mocapped. It's the transitions that were problematic and running anims with pistol/empty handed.

ArmA3 anims however are generally gorgeous compared. But step-over animation needs work. It looks like some bad puppet show. ArmA2's one was actually superior. And it needs to be sped up a bit. Not the animation itself but there's slight delay before it begins.

Also you gotta tie the camera to rolling animation when aiming. Why? Because when the dude is aiming and rolling on the ground it's like camera just moves left and right and hands go around it. Rolling is disorienting IRL - but in ArmA3 it gives an unfair advantage over ANY other movement animation.

[chortles 263]

Oh, I made someone feel ashamed for showing ArmA3 :(

In contrast, the changes seen at E3, Gamescom and in the public alpha have made me feel proud of showing Arma 3, and the changes shown actually motivated me more to actively talk up Arma 3 in person even when I'm talking about other stuff to gamers! :D

I would like to ask though the same question I posed to Vespa; I believe that after Gamescom you told me that aiming through sights would force walk speed and prevent tactical pace... did you change this between Gamescom and the public alpha release?

The animations as they are now are full of compromises to create a proper, reasonable and hopefully consistent experience for the user. As the guy who made SMK animations, I can only say that not all of my ideas made it through yet I feel positive about the outcome of things that did. With all the restrictions imposed (also due to features of general design like the consistent 1st and 3rd person animations = same file), I am pretty happy about the result of general movement. It has gone a really long way and will surely be worked on more in future, also on the movement speed part.

I don't mind the tweaking of speeds, but I imagine that this at least means that tactical pace is here to stay, huh? ;)