Stolen map/mission

[Horner 13]

Already beat you to it xD

Not a contest though :)

Actually, I'm talking about broadcasting CODE to the clients from the server, not just essential variables, but I get what you mean.

Also, not that I want to take part in the whole he said-she said, who stole what conversation, but I'm just confused like Iceman, first you say you don't like them stealing because they left all the credits and people come to your clan when playing their server, now you're saying they're taking credit? I don't quite understand.

Edited February 10, 2013 by Horner

[DeltaFOX209 1]

Sorry, not trying to be a super prick. But, how exactly did they take credit if all's they did was change the splash screen? Yet they didn't take time to edit other things. Things that people usually change when they're being underhanded... clan text, ts info etc.

Also, people can only go by what you say. In your case it was a ground up build initially...

you arent being a prick but,

they are actually starting to remove our markings now that public affairs tried reasoning with them...

And mostly we dont care about them anymore since they already got their hands on it, we just want prevention, like brand the mission so they cant take credit you know?

[iceman77 18]

Yeah so your going to need to do what the others suggested. If you really want to keep the map to yourselves. I still fail to see how they're taking credit though, or why your worried about others taking credit. If they get their hands on a fireball insurgency map that was edited by you guys, and then they themselves edit that map, is the same as when you took fireballs map ( hours & hours of writing the mode) & edited it. Since, the people in question did infact "edit" the map to make it their own version... a version of a version. Then it's no longer your version. It's just someones version (the editors). It's a good thing Fireball doesn't see things the same way, or no one would have open rights to edit insurgency, and put "edited by: whoever" :). Fireball gives permission to edit insurgency. That includes your version (if available). Since, you aren't the original author, or have any excluded, private agreement with the author. Unless you do...

Edited February 10, 2013 by Iceman77

[DeltaFOX209 1]

I guess thats true. Im mostly on the fence of it, i figured id inquire about it since the hire ups arent too happy, and edits, i suppose im alright with, just not taking our version and not editing it at all and then saying they are the ones that made it, the former makes sense because if you draw a car, and some comes and erases the back and turns it into a truck, technically its not your art, but drawing a car and signing it, then someone erasing your signing and putting theirs is a bit different, but oh well. I'll just shrug and say what my first post is, "Mimicry is the sincerest form of flattery"

[avibird 1 155]

Delta you and your clan need to get a grip for real. It's a game that we play for fun! It's a hobby that we do for enjoyment ie editing/scripting/modding. This community was build on others sharing information and missions. Stop and think what you are saying the hire ups arent too happy lol. Just have fun playing with your clan who cares what are people are doing. If your hire ups lol don't like it tell them don't make missions that are public it is that simple. Imagine all the mission designers, scripters and modders stop sharing there work. We would only have a hand full of buggy out of the box missions to play. Imagine if BOHEMIA want down the road that CODEMASTERS did and not allow editing/modding for ARMA3. The mission was not your clans. Your clan just made a base added some scripts and new visuals to a mission. It's no different then what they did to your version of the mission. I can see if you made a new script or gamemode and someone took it and said they developed it Yes I/WE can see your point but you are talking about a mission that has so many different versions out there. I am done here. i hope you see the bigger picture. Avibird.

[DeltaFOX209 1]

Delta you and your clan need to get a grip for real. It's a game that we play for fun! It's a hobby that we do for enjoyment ie editing/scripting/modding. This community was build on others sharing information and missions. Stop and think what you are saying the hire ups arent too happy lol. Just have fun playing with your clan who cares what are people are doing. If your hire ups lol don't like it tell them don't make missions that are public it is that simple. Imagine all the mission designers, scripters and modders stop sharing there work. We would only have a hand full of buggy out of the box missions to play. Imagine if BOHEMIA want down the road that CODEMASTERS did and not allow editing/modding for ARMA3. The mission was not your clans. Your clan just made a base added some scripts and new visuals to a mission. It's no different then what they did to your version of the mission. I can see if you made a new script or gamemode and someone took it and said they developed it Yes I/WE can see your point but you are talking about a mission that has so many different versions out there. I am done here. i hope you see the bigger picture. Avibird.

your comment seriously wasnt needed. did you read ANYTHING? also its not the fact of just higher ups, a low ranker made the mission anyway, editing nothing and claiming as yours is just stupid and selfish. Also i addressed the sharing and things being public. We under stand if you take the mission and edit it. but to take the mission, as is, take off the signature and claim as yours is the issue. But the mission isnt ours you say? True, but ArmA models dont belong to me but if i made a reskin and uploaded it to a public area, id pretty pissed if someone took the reskin and took my name off of it and put theres on there. Now if they took the unit, edited it majorly, ie: keep the marpat camo, but change the vest, change the helmet, maybe change the pouches, i wouldnt care as much. So before you lecture me of the rights and wrongs of arma, how about you "get a grip" and stand back and re-read that its just a simple question and that we arent trying to stop them, they already have it, we just dont want people claiming our missions as theres. Simple. You are the only one to post a useless post and be slightly insulting in the process.

Its a question, i got some answers, thank you for your time. However unneeded it was.

@Iceman: \

@zooloo: / Thank you both for your answers. You were great help (:

[Guest]

your comment seriously wasnt needed. did you read ANYTHING? also its not the fact of just higher ups, a low ranker made the mission anyway, editing nothing and claiming as yours is just stupid and selfish. Also i addressed the sharing and things being public. We under stand if you take the mission and edit it. but to take the mission, as is, take off the signature and claim as yours is the issue. But the mission isnt ours you say? True, but ArmA models dont belong to me but if i made a reskin and uploaded it to a public area, id pretty pissed if someone took the reskin and took my name off of it and put theres on there. Now if they took the unit, edited it majorly, ie: keep the marpat camo, but change the vest, change the helmet, maybe change the pouches, i wouldnt care as much. So before you lecture me of the rights and wrongs of arma, how about you "get a grip" and stand back and re-read that its just a simple question and that we arent trying to stop them, they already have it, we just dont want people claiming our missions as theres. Simple. You are the only one to post a useless post and be slightly insulting in the process.

Its a question, i got some answers, thank you for your time. However unneeded it was.

@Iceman: \

@zooloo: / Thank you both for your answers. You were great help (:

before this post get closed, id like to say that i agree with you, there should be AT LEAST a small text that says who is the original autor of a mission, maybe un-editable to other mission makers

[iceman77 18]

ugh. This thread revived... why?

[b00tsy 28]

I'm afraid there isn't much to be done. Most of the interwebz don't give a damn about asking permissions and respecting other people's work.

This.

If you publish a mission (or let outsiders play it) then it is basically owned by the public. It is not right and shows lack of decency and moral of people that don't ask permission or give credits to the mission creator, but that is how it works these days. You do not actually own the mission you created so it is not that you can file a DMCA or anything to have it removed from other servers.

I recently uploaded a youtube video of my North Korean google earth findings and within 1 hour it got uploaded by dozens of other channels and several websites such as Liveleak and thus them taking the credits for it and getting the views. It sux, but what the hell can you do. This is how the internetz is now, or I should say 'the people on the internetz'. If you don't want anyone to use your creations then do not use it in public on the internet unless you have the full rights and willing to take legal actions.

[iceman77 18]

It's very simple. Everytime a player joins, and loadds the mission, he gets the mission in his cache. So.. what's the most logical, simple solution? Private games. Else, people are going to un-pbo your map. I mean, assuming that you wrote the mode from scratch and didn't just edit a base layout in someone elses map... else, you don't have a leg to stand on regarding "mission thieves". Wouldn't that just be silly? To complain about someone stealing a map that you didn't spend hours & hours & days to code to begin with... but merely placed some objects in the editor onto someone elses hard work ..., and then come on here and complain... :rolleyes:

Edited February 23, 2013 by Iceman77

[Horner 13]

Could this thread be closed, there was no need to necro it and will only revive a circular argument.

[A-SUICIDAL 11]

I don't recommend doing this unless you absolutely feel that your mission needs a little protection. It was explained to me in the past that it is better to share even if somebody might attempt to steal your mission, butcher it and then try to take credit it for it, and I'd have to say I agree no matter what the circumstances.

It is possible to add a light form of "save" protection to a mission by renaming the mission folder using special characters and then using a 3rd party program to save/compile the mission to pbo. If an inexperienced mission creator later downloads the mission pbo file and extracts the mission and opens it in the editor, he or she will be unable to "save" new changes to the mission, because the strange characters in the mission name will cause the editor to save the mission as a new folder name, but the old folder name will still appear in the mission name field when the person clicks the "save" button. The person editing the mission won't realize that the mission saved to a new empty folder. The result is that it will first cause confusion and the inexperienced mission creator will wonder why the new changes he/she is making to the mission are not saving at all. They could add an A-10 on the runway and then hit save and then preview the mission and there won't be any A-10 there at all, because it saved to a different mission folder. It might take them a while to figure this out. After several attempts to save changes to the mission without any luck, the person might give up and assume that the mission is protected some how - without ever realizing that each time they hit save - that the changes they made were being saved to a different mission folder.

In order to actually be able to save changes to the mission, they would have to first extract the mission pbo file, then rename the mission folder without special characters in the name, then they could open it in the editor and save new changes to the mission. Chances are if they rename the mission, they might use part of the original mission name and possibly still have strange characters in the name, causing the mission to still save to a new empty mission folder without them realizing. Even a more experienced mission creator might not figure it out right away, because it's so obvious - they fail to notice it. Anyway, it's not a fool proof method to adding protection to a mission, but in DeltaFOX209's case, it might have prevented his mission from being butchered by a noob.

The first reply in this thread from BlackMamb - he referred to some dude. I think that dude might have been me :rolleyes:

Edited February 26, 2013 by A-SUICIDAL

[Tankbuster 1746]

Am I the only one finding this a little strange?

Deltafox1337, it isn't 'your' mission, it never was. Even if you did develop a mission 'from the ground up' rather than modding a widely used mission made by someone else, you'd be outside of the spirit of the community in complaining that someone else used it.

It's OK for you to take SOMEONE ELSES mission and then keep it to yourself? You've been here nearly a year, yet you have totally failed to get the point of this place.

[alleycat 28]

One way to protect an MP mission is to move all server-side scripts into an addon that only exists on the server.

if (isServer) then {

execVM 		"\@Mod\addons\server\server_side_stuff.sqf";


};

The script will never run on the client and you can keep it in a folder that only exists on the server.

[marker 1]

You don't need that code, just add your folder into @mod and run it server side.

I have done this only once and instantly regretted it and changed it straight away....

We wouldn't have 10% of the stuff we have now on this site if it wasn't for sharing and exchanging help /ideas...

[Double Doppler 10]

One way to protect an MP mission is to move all server-side scripts into an addon that only exists on the server.

if (isServer) then {

execVM 		"\@Mod\addons\server\server_side_stuff.sqf";


};

The script will never run on the client and you can keep it in a folder that only exists on the server.

Unfortunately that technique is old. Some 'kiddies' are known to send commands to the server to look up the file then return it to them as a string.

[alleycat 28]

Well does it work if it is a very large script? a few 100 lines? Also the larger it is, the easier it is to prove they stole it because rewriting it to cover the theft would take a lot of effort. And the average asshole stealing the script would have to figure out how it works to rewrite it.

[Double Doppler 10]

Well does it work if it is a very large script? a few 100 lines? Also the larger it is, the easier it is to prove they stole it because rewriting it to cover the theft would take a lot of effort. And the average asshole stealing the script would have to figure out how it works to rewrite it.

AFAIK there is no limit to how much data/lines a string can transfer - and as for proving it, most communities/script-thieves don't care if they are banned/caught, they just keep their server UP, disturbing the original creator's audience...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The only way to have one over the thieves is to either:

1) Keep updating your own files with the same expertise and quality it took to make them - YOU have something better than they do, the person who created it, yourself...

2) Obfuscate your mission (RP-Mods did it, I never recall them having any trouble again after they did)

Why should mission-creators be forced to leave their missions open for reading? Isn't providing a public server for people to play on enough?

I just don't get why some people hate implementing mission-protection, I mean it doesn't damage the community in any way.

At the end of the day, if they really wanted the mission, they could always ask for the source or snippets of it. I'm sure the author would be kind enough to hand it over to help them...

Oh wait - they pissed him off and are banned from the server - that's why they want to steal the work and create one themselves....

TBH the scripting system in Arma leaves it predictable most of the time - I don't usually open up people's scripts - if I see a nice one, I just observe the function off its YouTube video and compose a plan myself. That way, I can get better at scripting, sharper, and I can pat myself on the back from using my own initiative. However, there are once or twice moments where it does seem not possible without a peek at how someone else does it. But wouldn't asking do?

Edited February 26, 2013 by Double Doppler

[alleycat 28]

2) Obfuscate your mission (RP-Mods did it, I never recall them having any trouble again after they did)

This means making it hard to read basically? I am looking for ways to copy protect my stuff.

[cuel 25]

Does it mean using one char variables? :)

[Mattar_Tharkari 10]

One mission? One Server? One people? Your rules only? Bannishment (death) to all heretics? Dictatorships have never been popular, just ask Hitler and others. He ended up playing by himself in a room with a gun and so might you with these attitudes, ROFL. I suggest you experiment with the joy of giving, it has always been the way on these forums. You never know, someone may come up with an improvement that you can steal right back? What's the harm? I would suggest it's far nicer to see the 1st 50 lines in the MP filter playing your mission? Possibly far less effort than building a very complex wall around your mission and server?

edit: One solution to all this would be to write a comprehensive multiplayer scripting guide. Then they wouldn't need to steal, they would just make their own. As MP editing in A3 looks easier and is said to have a better set of MP functions, I don't think stealing will be as big a problem in the future. Stop worrying and start living.

Edited February 27, 2013 by Mattar_Tharkari

[Double Doppler 10]

One mission? One Server? One people? Your rules only? Bannishment (death) to all heretics? Dictatorships have never been popular, just ask Hitler and others. He ended up playing by himself in a room with a gun and so might you with these attitudes, ROFL. I suggest you experiment with the joy of giving, it has always been the way on these forums. You never know, someone may come up with an improvement that you can steal right back? What's the harm? I would suggest it's far nicer to see the 1st 50 lines in the MP filter playing your mission? Possibly far less effort than building a very complex wall around your mission and server?

edit: One solution to all this would be to write a comprehensive multiplayer scripting guide. Then they wouldn't need to steal, they would just make their own. As MP editing in A3 looks easier and is said to have a better set of MP functions, I don't think stealing will be as big a problem in the future. Stop worrying and start living.

Most people create unique MP-missions to gain popularity on their server. The issue is, that stealing a mission disrupts the audience for the server it was originally intended for. Most people who steal the mission usually come from a shoddy background, they can't even setup websites for their server, are immature, and TBH, we find them running the dictatorships.

It's really not at all like what you are describing it is - alot of people join the servers, teamkill/cheat then steal the mission and cheek the admins/creators of the mission/server. It's a touchy subject, but have a look at how many "life" 'clans' their are out there right now, and the ages of the administrators/mission 'scripters' < 16 years old etc. Their lack of capacity leads to poor leadership, and their clan dies out, just to found a new one, with a never-ending cycle. Alot of the audience for the good sensible servers get scattered around and servers never fill up to the brim.

I second the multiplayer scripting guide, but for some (esp. thieves), even that might prove too taxing for their mental capacity. They just want to steal the work and get all the credit for something that wasn't theirs.

[Horner 13]

One mission? One Server? One people? Your rules only? Bannishment (death) to all heretics? Dictatorships have never been popular, just ask Hitler and others. He ended up playing by himself in a room with a gun and so might you with these attitudes, ROFL. I suggest you experiment with the joy of giving, it has always been the way on these forums. You never know, someone may come up with an improvement that you can steal right back? What's the harm? I would suggest it's far nicer to see the 1st 50 lines in the MP filter playing your mission? Possibly far less effort than building a very complex wall around your mission and server?

edit: One solution to all this would be to write a comprehensive multiplayer scripting guide. Then they wouldn't need to steal, they would just make their own. As MP editing in A3 looks easier and is said to have a better set of MP functions, I don't think stealing will be as big a problem in the future. Stop worrying and start living.

Just to let you know, there's plenty of scripting guides out there, yet people still don't use them. As I'm a firm believer in the saying "Give a kid a fish, you'll feed him for a day, teach a kid to fish, and you'll feed him for a lifetime", that 'kid' needs to want to learn to 'fish'.

You're looking at it in the wrong way. A dictatorship is completely different then wanting exclusive rights to what is actually yours, I'm not going to go into a huge rant because I've done so before. No one is going to sit and tell me I don't deserve to keep what I created, and no one should tell anyone else that either.

[Mattar_Tharkari 10]

I'm simply advocating sharing, is that such a strange and alien concept these days? Feel free to keep what you make - I have never suggested you be forced to give it up? If you let others use and look at your code they can often suggest improvements or new ideas that you may not have thought of. Think of it as a form of evolution. The scripting guides are not comprehensive, take months to make sense of or are badly out of date. That is why people are taking shortcuts.

By the same measure, I don't think socially engineering a set of circumstances whereby others are compelled to join your clan / server is the right way to go about things. It's bad for BIS business, puts people off the game. You will end up making yourself a target for hackers. Nothing appeals to them more than a locked door or a set of rules they can disobey. They will find a way in or pay others who can do it for them which will create security problems for the whole editing community. I don't think it's worth it.

If servers / clans are suffering from a low turnout I would suggest getting some feedback on why that is happening. Mission theft is a factor but it's unlikely to be the whole problem. Ever been lectured on the art of warfare by someone seeking to recreate the power and authority they once had in the military? Asked youself why you have to endure it when you know the subject better than he does? Is 1 person or a group of people perhaps limiting the enjoyment of the rest? Trying to impose military discipline on a population, when the majority aren't really interested in playing the game that way, is a battle I predict will be lost. Well, you know my opinion, will not be commenting further :)

Edited February 27, 2013 by Mattar_Tharkari

[Double Doppler 10]

I'm simply advocating sharing, is that such a strange and alien concept these days? Feel free to keep what you make - I have never suggested you be forced to give it up? If you let others use and look at your code they can often suggest improvements or new ideas that you may not have thought of. Think of it as a form of evolution. The scripting guides are not comprehensive, take months to make sense of or are badly out of date. That is why people are taking shortcuts.

By the same measure, I don't think socially engineering a set of circumstances whereby others are compelled to join your clan / server is the right way to go about things. It's bad for BIS business, puts people off the game. You will end up making yourself a target for hackers. Nothing appeals to them more than a locked door or a set of rules they can disobey. They will find a way in or pay others who can do it for them which will create security problems for the whole editing community. I don't think it's worth it.

If servers / clans are suffering from a low turnout I would suggest getting some feedback on why that is happening. Mission theft is a factor but it's unlikely to be the whole problem. Ever been lectured on the art of warfare by someone seeking to recreate the power and authority they once had in the military? Asked youself why you have to endure it when you know the subject better than he does? Is 1 person or a group of people perhaps limiting the enjoyment of the rest? Trying to impose military discipline on a population, when the majority aren't really interested in playing the game that way, is a battle I predict will be lost. Well, you know my opinion, will not be commenting further :)

I understand where you are coming from, but at the end of the day, the server bills are coming out of the administration's own wallet.

If someone doesn't like what is going on in the server then I suggest they get well educated, learn how to create their own mission and write in programming language, then try doing just what that server did and create their own mission and host it.

Sharing is fine, there is nothing stopping it if missions can be locked. Alot of decent mission editors share their stuff nowadays anyway.

It is just forced sharing that I don't stand for. How else can someone gain an incentive to create something, if all that will happen is their work to be copied (and sometimes, credits removed).