A-10 gatling gun: underpowered

[SKULLS_Viper 0]

If BIS would fix the rudder, maybe i would be able to destroy a tank alittle more easilyer.

[Hell_Toupee 0]

the recoil from the gun is greater than the thrust of the engines, powerful.

[Aaron Kane 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Mister Frag @ June 23 2002,17:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The Avenger cannon doesn't have to penetrate the full thickness of a tank's armor with a single round in order to be effective against it, because it fires multiple rounds. The repeated impact will ablate the armor.<span id='postcolor'>

I agree completely. Its the sheer number of rounds slamming into the target that do the real damage.

And from what I've learned from other topics on this forum, modern tanks are normally too well protected for the GAU-8 to penetrate the front armor of the tanks. However, the rear and top sections will be shredded by the gun. Tanks may be penetrable when hit by the cannon in the front, but its less likely than a rear shot.

A 20mm. on an F-16 for instance has less mass per bullet, but a higher rate of fire. The GAU-8's heavier bullets have much more kinetic energy, and are able to penetrate much more armor than a 20mm. That makes sense though, since the 30mm. is of course larger than the 20mm.

I'm pretty sure that this is all accurate, since I'm taking stuff from all around the forums and posting it in a single message. So if I'm wrong, dont blame me, blame everyone else

[grayghost 0]

Penetrating forward tank armor with 30mm shells? Highly unlikely ... it takes several 120mm SABOT rounds to pull it off ... a whole 19" of very high density armor ... depleted uranium sandwitch, possibly with ceramic or reactive blocks on top. However, you are right - top armor is thinner (rear has been beefed up in latest M1's, I don't know about Russian tanks)

[S.F.F.R 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (grayghost @ June 24 2002,03:00)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Penetrating forward tank armor with 30mm shells?  Highly unlikely ... it takes several 120mm SABOT rounds to pull it off ... a whole 19" of very high density armor ... depleted uranium sandwitch, possibly with ceramic or reactive blocks on top. However, you are right - top armor is thinner (rear has been beefed up in latest M1's, I don't know about Russian tanks)<span id='postcolor'>

T-80

Armor - Against 120-mm ammunition (composite ceramic armor)

+

Applique Armor

+

Second generation explosive reactive armor

+

"SHTORA" - antimissile system (maverick,hellfire...)

+

"ARENA" - anti RPG,LAW,AT.....

[Kermit 0]

Tell that to the A-10 pilots, SFFR. Do you know more than the Army boys? Would you really feel safe allowing an A-10 to make a single gun run on a T-80 with you inside? Do you think that gun's just for show? The term "tank killer" isn't stuck to the A-10 because of its Mavericks, trust me. That gun can rip up anything, and can (I still maintain) destroy a tank with one shot, if placed right. Why, even a mere humble fifty caliber bullet could disable a tank if placed right, in certain vulerable places. Come on man, you need to check out the A-10. I think that what you are doing is relying on your information about the T-80 and other tanks, and not on that of the A-10. Does that make sense? I don't know, I'm kind of tired now. It's three in the morning here.

I agree with Skulls Viper, fixing the rudder would eliminate a good deal of problems. Worse than the damage is the inability to hit anything. It's not just that I suck, either, for I play quite a few flight sims and I can usually hit things (although air targets are far easier to hit than stationary ground targets. Don't ask me why). But with rudder and a little more lift (there seems to be a problem with lift with the planes in Operation Flashpoint), I could take out tanks with ease, and without the Maverics.

By the way, there are two reasons the gun is not centered on the A-10. One is that there needs to be room for the nosewheel, which is also off center in the opposite direction, and also I've heard something about the gun's rotation being strong enough to bank the aircraft. Does someone know more about this torque effect thing?

[Kermit 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Prof.Wizard @ June 23 2002,13:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Most modern Russian planes have thirty millimeter guns as standard.<span id='postcolor'>

Interesting, I didn't know that. Thank you for that tidbit. I probably should look at Russian fighters more, but they are a whole new collection.

How do the lengths differ between the Avenger cannon's shell and that of the Russian thirty millimeter guns?

[HellToupee 0]

a10s dont usually attack from the top against tanks because that leaves then open to aa guns, they ususally come in from the side of a tank coloum at tree top level hit the fire button wave the rudders and spay as many tanks as they can.

[Prof.Wizard 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Kermit @ June 24 2002,09:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I agree with Skulls Viper, fixing the rudder would eliminate a good deal of problems.  Worse than the damage is the inability to hit anything.  It's not just that I suck, either, for I play quite a few flight sims and I can usually hit things (although air targets are far easier to hit than stationary ground targets.  Don't ask me why).  But with rudder and a little more lift (there seems to be a problem with lift with the planes in Operation Flashpoint), I could take out tanks with ease, and without the Maverics.<span id='postcolor'>

But this will leave A-10's cannon still underpowered.

Do we have anyone who can contact the BI development team to address these problems on the next patch/update?

BTW, I agree with all your above points too. The planes have been the weakest part of OPFP...

[Kermit 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Prof.Wizard @ June 24 2002,03:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Do we have anyone who can contact the Bohemia Interactive development team to address these problems on the next patch/update?<span id='postcolor'>

They are watching us.  Big Brother is watching you.

Hell Toupee, I wouldn't be so sure about that statement about spray and pray.  All of the videos I have seen (I have seen a few, I love the A-10) have demonstrated careful aiming at a single target, even in situations where I think spray and pray would be more effective.  Still, they know what they are doing.

Anyway, I don't mean that they attack from directly above.  They are not Stukas.  They do attack from the air, though, and therefore there is a high angle involved there.

Too bad we couldn't get an interview with an A-10 pilot.

[Edit: Do they attack inverted or not? I've heard that they do, to get a better view, but that would nullify that titanium armor around the cockpit and leave the pilot vulnerable to anything that can go through bullet-"proof" glass. By the way, in case there is someone who doesn't know, "inverted" is the same as "up side down." That's your word for the day! I need to get to bed now, really.]

[HellToupee 0]

they would for a single target maybee but when there up against an armored colum they dont want to be any higher than the trees(my r keys stuffed) cause everything on the ground will be shootin em, i got a few books on a10s and ww2 fighters i luv planes.

[Kermit 0]

So do I. I took flying lessons for a short while, but it was too expensive for then. Maybe in the future...

Did you look at those A-10 videos linked in this thread? One of them shows an A-10 single a target out of a large column and shoot it up with the Avenger.

I found many great aircraft videos after I saw that one, just for fun. There's quite a lot of that on the Internet! Makes me kind of envious, to be honest. All that power and I can't use it! Oh well, a Cessna's better than nothing, if I can ever afford it again.

[R. Gerschwarzenge 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Kermit @ June 24 2002,10:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Prof.Wizard @ June 24 2002,03:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Do we have anyone who can contact the Bohemia Interactive development team to address these problems on the next patch/update?<span id='postcolor'>

They are watching us.  Big Brother is watching you.<span id='postcolor'>

[S.F.F.R 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Kermit @ June 24 2002,09:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Prof.Wizard @ June 23 2002,13:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Most modern Russian planes have thirty millimeter guns as standard.<span id='postcolor'>

Interesting, I didn't know that.  Thank you for that tidbit.  I probably should look at Russian fighters more, but they are a whole new collection.

How do the lengths differ between the Avenger cannon's shell and that of the Russian thirty millimeter guns?<span id='postcolor'>

MIG-29 - 30mm GSh-30L

MIG-31 - 30mm GSh-30L

MIG-27 - 30mm GSh-6-N-30

YAK-141 - 30mm GSh-6-N-30

SU-25 - 30mm GSh-6-N-30

SU-27 - 30mm GSh-30-1

SU-30 - 30mm GSh-30-1 all - 30 mm, 3000 rd/min

SU-33 - 30mm GSh-30-1

SU-34 - 30mm GSh-30-1

SU-35 - 30mm GSh-30-1

SU-37 - 30mm GSh-30-1

[S.F.F.R 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Kermit @ June 24 2002,09:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> That gun can rip up anything, and can (I still maintain) destroy a tank with one shot, if placed right.<span id='postcolor'>

Of course and one american soldier can kill 1000 enemyes.

Read more crazy tom clancy

[mads bahrt 0]

The point is that MBT's are not evenly armored all over their body. Especially on the top the are more vulnerable, which is also a thing some ATGM's take advantage of. I wouldn't rule out that even a spray of 20 mm might do the job, if it hits the MBT on top of the turret. MBT's are primarily designed to take on other MBT's, not aircraft - thats why.

[S.F.F.R 0]

On last model of T-80,T-90 - 23 mm AA machingun (old machngun 12,7 mm)

About ATGM - "Arena"  electro-optical system destroy 9 from 10 guidet missiles - there is official test of T-90

[Prof.Wizard 0]

'nuff said. Let's wait for that patch now boys.

I think all of you are right:

A-10 was indeed very successful in the Gulf War (Operation "Desert Storm") where it destroyed dozens of Iraqi armor. However bear in mind that terrain and conditions there were ideal for A-10's operation: It was a desert where the Warthog could do extremely shallow dive attacks and spit precisely thousands of 30mm bullets. Moreover the enemy was sporting old T-55s, T-64s, T-72s, and only a few T-80s...

SFFR is partly right. In a different scenario and facing modern T-80s and T-90s Thunderbolt II's success might be somehow more limited.

Anyway, the A-10 in OPFP is underpowered and its rate of fire not exactly the real thing. Suggest BI to correct this in the next update.

AFAIC, case closed.

[S.F.F.R 0]

Ok

Su-25 GSh-6-N-30 underpowered too.

And in game T-80 not have guidet missiles.

[PitViper 0]

I hope they fix the fixed-wing modeling in Resistence. It bleeds way too much speed and desperately needs static throttle key for the keyboard.

[Prof.Wizard 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PitViper @ June 24 2002,15:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I hope they fix the fixed-wing modeling in Resistence.  It bleeds way too much speed and desperately needs static throttle key for the keyboard.<span id='postcolor'>

Fortunately I've got a joystick with throttle and that problem isn't there.

Anyway, you are right. The flight model of fixed-wing aircraft should be beefed-up. I honestly use the joystick to navigate only! When strafing I take the mouse cause it's far more... accurate!

This is an irony. Joystick in this game should be more fun.

[SKULLS_Viper 0]

hehe, they also call the avenger, when fired, "a fart from god".

FAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRTTTTTTTTTTTTT.

[Satchel 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (S.F.F.R @ June 24 2002,14:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ok

Su-25 GSh-6-N-30 underpowered too.<span id='postcolor'>

The SU-25 uses an AO-17A (GSH-30) 30mm twin-barrel gun, armed with 250 rounds of 30x165mm ammunition and rated at 3,000 rds/min.

GSH-30 (GSH-30K)

30 mm double-barreled aircraft gun

The gun is produced in two modifications: GSH-30 — with length of barrels of 1500 mm installed on aircrafts "Su-25" type;

GSH-30K — with length of barrels of 2400 mm, evaporative cooling system of barrels and variable rate of fire. The gun is installed on helicopters of "Mi-24P" type.

Overall dimensions, mm, not more than

length 2944 (2044)

width 222

height 195

The SU-25´s gun weapon system is primary used for self-defense, not a dedicated ground attack weapon like the GAU-8/A, nor does it have the accuracy and firepower of the latter, it looks like a dwarf against the A-10´s cannon.

You´ll have to know that the GAU-8/A isn´t a simple 30mm cannon, it´s the second largest gun ever build into an A/C, right next after a 105mm Howitzer on AC-130 Gunships.

[Paratrooper 0]

Why is this argument persisting? I'm the last person to trumpet America's military achivements but the GAU-Eliminator/Avenger's power can't be disputed.

[Prof.Wizard 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Satchel @ June 24 2002,17:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You´ll have to know that the GAU-8/A isn´t a simple 30mm cannon, it´s the second largest gun ever build into an A/C, right next after a 105mm Howitzer on AC-130 Gunships.<span id='postcolor'>

Not exactly the second largest EVER built. Some World War 2 aircrafts (German and Russian) had even bigger cannons installed.

You can find them in simulations like IL-2 Sturmovik.