Will Arma 3 be better optimized

[dmarkwick 261]

Lagdolls aren't free.

I remember someone else on these forums was fond of using that descriptive, looks like you've taken up the battlecry? :)

The benefits of ragdoll will far outweigh the performance cost. As far as "optimisation" is concerned, I understand that PhysX 3.x makes good use of multithreading, which the current RV physics engine does not.

[ruhtraeel 1]

Cool, source?

Make a RAM disk and use it to cache game files, so you get performance that's even better than if you used an SSD. :)

Somewhere in the E3 thread, you can probably search i7 2600k and gtx 580 and probably find it

And... What? Is there really a way to use RAM as secondary memory?

[Dingo8 1]

Somewhere in the E3 thread, you can probably search i7 2600k and gtx 580 and probably find it

Ah, here it is! I somehow missed that post. Thanks. :)

And... What? Is there really a way to use RAM as secondary memory?

Yep, you can use it like a hard drive, except only temporary storage.

Looks like someone else already made a guide for how to do it in Arma 2: http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?88388-Here-s-how-I-got-ARMA2-to-perform-smoothly-using-RAMDISK

It should of course also work with Arma 3 as long as you have enough RAM.

[metalcraze 290]

Hopefully ARMA 3 can use RAM more effectively, I got 16GB just sitting there

ArmA2 uses whopping 1.5 GBs with everything it offers. Effective enough for you?

The benefits of ragdoll will far outweigh the performance cost. As far as "optimisation" is concerned, I understand that PhysX 3.x makes good use of multithreading, which the current RV physics engine does not.

Not only that but also PhysX driven boxes and vehicles. And tell that to people who will whine about unoptimized ArmA3.

When people whine about "make ArmA3 optimized" they expect better FPS in ArmA3 than in ArmA2. I can't wait for their reaction to the truth. I saw a comment from a dude yesterday that ArmA2 is unoptimized because it doesn't run well on his 9500GT.

[[evo] dan 79]

I saw that Max Payne 3 can use 2-16gb of RAM, so I guess it comes with some sort of RAM disking program built in, maybe Arma 3 could do something similiar (so it will autodetect extra ram over lets say, 8gb, and then copy things that are likely to be used most of the time over onto the extra RAM for the duration that the game is played for.

[NeMeSiS 11]

When people whine about "make ArmA3 optimized" they expect better FPS in ArmA3 than in ArmA2. I can't wait for their reaction to the truth.

Remember we had the same bullshit when we went from A1 to A2? People never learn.

[PuFu 4591]

ArmA2 uses whopping 1.5 GBs with everything it offers. Effective enough for you?

No, on the contrary. Arma should stream things through RAM, not off the hard. Check the huge HDD IO. If you really think it is better to run things off HDD, instead of pushing things towards (at least) the LAA max usage, you know nothing about computers...

On a side note, you keep saying that people asking (truth be told, without much software or hardware background) are all playing on their mom's office PCs....that couldn't been far from the truth generalizing things this way. What's your hardware btw?

[metalcraze 290]

Pretty dated atm. Phenom II X4, GTX260

[-=Grunt=- 10]

Yeah, it'd be great if terrain and infantry textures were loaded onto the RAM since it seems to be the ones that are loaded the most in cities and such.

[ruhtraeel 1]

Maybe arma 3 will implement that so you don't need to use ramdisk at all. As in upon startup, load the most used files into ram and keep it there, while upon closing, move them back to the hdd.

[maddogx 13]

Maybe arma 3 will implement that so you don't need to use ramdisk at all. As in upon startup, load the most used files into ram and keep it there, while upon closing, move them back to the hdd.

Move them back to the HDD? Seriously? :D

[ruhtraeel 1]

Move them back to the HDD? Seriously? :D

OK well fine startup and shutdown would be slow but the smooth gameplay would be worth it

And at least you would still be able to use your ram when you aren't playing arma

[Steakslim 1]

OK well fine startup and shutdown would be slow but the smooth gameplay would be worth it

And at least you would still be able to use your ram when you aren't playing arma

Now I'm not the most knowledgeable person in regards to computer technology, but the action of caching files onto ram when running a game, to then "move them back to the harddrive" is a needless action. When the game is closed the files can just be purged from the ram as they already exist on the harddrive.

[PuFu 4591]

OK well fine startup and shutdown would be slow but the smooth gameplay would be worth it

And at least you would still be able to use your ram when you aren't playing arma

please read up on how a computer works before making the next post

[ruhtraeel 1]

Now I'm not the most knowledgeable person in regards to computer technology, but the action of caching files onto ram when running a game, to then "move them back to the harddrive" is a needless action. When the game is closed the files can just be purged from the ram as they already exist on the harddrive.

OK from what I read ramdisk literally puts the files into a virtual drive in your ram. Like apparently it also says they also make the allocated ram pretty much turn into secondary memory, which means it's stored even after you power off, at least that's what it says on the site.

---------- Post added at 16:15 ---------- Previous post was at 16:14 ----------

So like you have a ram partition

[Dingo8 1]

Everything stored in RAM is temporary; As soon as you switch the power off, information on it disappears. However, some RAM disk software can copy files to your RAM disk from your hard drive automatically on every boot. The benefit of RAM vs hard drives or even SSDs is that it's extremely fast. You don't need to "move" the files "back to the hard drive" after using a RAM disk, because you only have to COPY them to the RAM disk.

[batto 17]

Everything stored in RAM is temporary; As soon as you switch the power off, information on it disappears. However, some RAM disk software can copy files to your RAM disk from your hard drive automatically on every boot. The benefit of RAM vs hard drives or even SSDs is that it's extremely fast. You don't need to "move" the files "back to the hard drive" after using a RAM disk, because you only have to COPY them to the RAM disk.

Ramdisk is for non-persistent data. For everything else Windows is enough: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Page_cache

[Dingo8 1]

Ramdisk is for non-persistent data. For everything else Windows is enough: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Page_cache

We're talking about copying some of the game files, which would otherwise be streamed from the hard drive, into a RAM disk so the game performs much faster when it's run later. Left to its own devices Windows would only load the files into disk cache automatically AFTER the game first tried accessing them, meaning there'd still be stuttering.

[batto 17]

We're talking about copying some of the game files, which would otherwise be streamed from the hard drive, into a RAM disk so the game performs much faster when it's run later. Left to its own devices Windows would only load the files into disk cache automatically AFTER the game first tried accessing them, meaning there'd still be stuttering.

Yes. But the time to copy them to RAM is same with ramdisk except with ramdisk you do it on boot or whatever... Not to mention that with ramdisk you'll probably copy a lot of data that will not be even used during your gaming time.

[metalcraze 290]

Also I don't see how loading more stuff into RAM will help. It will just make loading times longer but even on my oldish HDD I don't notice the game stuttering even in towns.

The game will be streaming stuff regardless. I'd prefer to have shorter loading times.

[Dingo8 1]

Yes. But the time to copy them to RAM is same with ramdisk except with ramdisk you do it on boot or whatever...

By copying the game files into a RAM disk on boot you save the system from having to load it while you're actually playing the game, meaning less stuttering caused by the system waiting for the hard drive to respond.

Not to mention that with ramdisk you'll probably copy a lot of data that will not be even used during your gaming time.

You can choose which files you want to stream from RAM disk. And if you have enough RAM it won't even matter if you copy over stuff you won't need.

Also I don't see how loading more stuff into RAM will help. It will just make loading times longer but even on my oldish HDD I don't notice the game stuttering even in towns.

The game will be streaming stuff regardless. I'd prefer to have shorter loading times.

It won't take long for the files to copy into the RAM disk, and if it's streaming from there while the game is running there'll be far less stuttering because there's no need to wait for a hard drive to respond with its slow moving parts. Note that the stuttering that RAM disk or SSDs resolves is most severe with a long view distance.

[ruhtraeel 1]

Ok so I'm assuming RAMdisk pretty much just loads more files into RAM than usual, and then dumps them at shutdown but keeps a key of some sort in secondary memory so that it knows to load them again once you boot up.

This is all assumed from reading the product description on their website.

Is PuFu a troll, or does he just take everything at face value?

Edited June 18, 2012 by ruhtraeel

[liquidpinky 11]

Ok so I'm assuming RAMdisk pretty much just loads more files into RAM than usual, and then dumps them at shutdown but keeps a key of some sort in secondary memory so that it knows to load them again once you boot up.

This is all assumed from reading the product description on their website.

Correct, or you can do it manually as well.

Just have what you want on it in a folder and paste them in after startup.

@metalcraze. There has been tons of tests on ARMA with RAMdisk to see what are the most commonly used files during play, you can even test your gameplay to find out what ones are most commonly used by yourself as well.

I found that a 4GB RAMdisk file was pretty much all I needed to do away with the stutter, although I will once again state that with the current game build and an SSD it makes RAMdisk pointless.

[ruhtraeel 1]

From what I saw on the website, it seems to imply that it creates a block in RAM right off the bootup, which would pretty much render X amount of RAM useless for other apps. I would like it so that it only creates the block when it needs to, ie. when you start ARMA 2 rather than straight from boot.

[PuFu 4591]

Ok so I'm assuming RAMdisk pretty much just loads more files into RAM than usual, and then dumps them at shutdown but keeps a key of some sort in secondary memory so that it knows to load them again once you boot up.

This is all assumed from reading the product description on their website.

My expertise isn't in RAM, it's more in processors and architectures.

Is PuFu a troll, or does he just take everything at face value?

Yeah, the biggest one around here. But opposed to you he has tried ramdisk his my 24gb rig. It doesn't load more files into ram. It creates a new virtual drive using the amount of ram you have set it to use. You actually need to have files there (mirrored indeed) to have those work. It changes the behaviour of what the buffer mem does naturally.

Regarding my comment towards you post:

Maybe arma 3 will implement that so you don't need to use ramdisk at all. As in upon startup, load the most used files into ram and keep it there,

This is exactly what RAM is designed to do. Act as a buffer for files in used by an application between hdd and cpu. You have those files available to be access from the fastest available (volatile) storage on you computer - the HDD.

What you are suggesting requires a 64bit binary anyways, or you'd hit the 3/4GB LAA cap.

while upon closing, move them back to the hdd.

This is not how ram works i am affraid

If you have cut/pasted) files on ramdisk, those WON't be available next time you turn your PC on, since ram is NOT a HDD. That is why ramdisks are actually mirroring data (as in copy pasting of your HDD on boot up).

OK well fine startup and shutdown would be slow but the smooth gameplay would be worth it

And at least you would still be able to use your ram when you aren't playing arma

again, this is exactly what ram does. In all ram-hungry apps i own, first boot up is slower, the next one is 10x faster. Same goes for operations you do more often than not (disk cache).