Autorotation training: you've got to be kidding

[OMAC 254]

Playing on Expert with kb/mouse, the first time I tried the autorotation training, I somehow managed to complete the first, safe-altitude segment, even though I had no idea what I was doing. Since then, after about 100 tries, I only make it to the checkerboard about 1 in 25 tries. When I do get there in glide, I crash. This is not happening. Playing on Beginner makes no difference. Are you supposed to increase collective to help you get to the checkerboard, even though you are supposed to glide?

I must be missing something, and am committing major cockpit error. Either that, or BIS did not focus group this puppy. Either way, it totally sucks.

Also, when playing this training my GPU temps skyrocket to almost 100 degrees C, even though my fan is cranked to the max. FPS is in the 40s with vsync off. This overheating only happens in this training segment.

Any ideas on how I can get better at this? I already use num2 to look down a little when gliding. I don't use pedal as it reduces speed.

[nightsta1ker 10]

Playing on Expert with kb/mouse, the first time I tried the autorotation training, I somehow managed to complete the first, safe-altitude segment, even though I had no idea what I was doing. Since then, after about 100 tries, I only make it to the checkerboard about 1 in 25 tries. When I do get there in glide, I crash. This is not happening. Playing on Beginner makes no difference. Are you supposed to increase collective to help you get to the checkerboard, even though you are supposed to glide?

I must be missing something, and am committing major cockpit error. Either that, or BIS did not focus group this puppy. Either way, it totally sucks.

Also, when playing this training my GPU temps skyrocket to almost 100 degrees C, even though my fan is cranked to the max. FPS is in the 40s with vsync off. This overheating only happens in this training segment.

Any ideas on how I can get better at this? I already use num2 to look down a little when gliding. I don't use pedal as it reduces speed.

OMAC. I will take a look at this next. Haven't done the training yet. After what I have seen so far, I would be willing to bet it's not done accurately, HOWEVER, autorotations are the hardest manuever to accomplish in a helicopter, and it is the section that instructors see the most students drop out of training.

[memphisbelle 99]

Playing on Expert with kb/mouse[...]

Erghh...are you sure that this is right way? I mean, I as well use pretty often the Mouse and K/B Combo, but in ToH I mostley use a HOTAS Stick since I noticed that just Mouse and K/B is not enough, comparing to default ArmA Flying.

I´ll not gonna say that this is the solution, I also havent done the AR Training yet, But I could imagine, that it would work better with a Stick (doesnt need to be a HOTAS).

According to your Performance issues, I need to watch my PC when I am giving it a try.

[OMAC 254]

Thank you, nightsta1ker. I can't wait to hear what a real pilot has to say about this. I fully understand that autorotations are pilot killers. I'm sure someone will eventually put a vid of how to do it, with hud gauges shown, on YouTube. But checking that out will be basically cheating. Please don't provide any spoiler hints, just let me know if you think it's doable and realistic. The implementation does seem realistic to me, it's just that it is incredibly difficult, like in real life.

---------- Post added at 11:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:34 AM ----------

Erghh...are you sure that this is right way? I mean, I as well use pretty often the Mouse and K/B Combo, but in ToH I mostley use a HOTAS Stick since I noticed that just Mouse and K/B is not enough, comparing to default ArmA Flying.

I´ll not gonna say that this is the solution, I also havent done the AR Training yet, But I could imagine, that it would work better with a Stick (doesnt need to be a HOTAS).

According to your Performance issues, I need to watch my PC when I am giving it a try.

Well, I spent yesterday completing the landing training on Expert with kb/mouse without using autohover or external view, and it almost killed me, but I did it. You may be right that a controller is the way to go, but look at these prices:

http://www.simw.com/hardware/helicopter.html

Jeez. I wish I lived near here:

http://www.bistudio.com/images/stories/profil/bi-profile-hq-summer.jpg

and I'd drop by and rent one from the guys, or offer to sweep their floors for a chance to borrow theirs, like:

http://takeonthegame.com/full/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/TKOH_BTS_TUTORIALS_-4.jpg?9d7bd4

BTW, who is the BIS guy adjusting the speaker? Somehow I don't think that young tester is trying the autorotation training.

Anyway, thanks for your input.

Edited October 30, 2011 by OMAC

[jcgam 11]

Here's an introduction to autorotation:

[OMAC 254]

Here's an introduction to autorotation:

Excellent info. Thanks. Man, the pilot in that vid is good - makes it look easy. He sure is going wicked fast right before he flares, eh?

[jedra 11]

Here's an introduction to autorotation:

Good lord - I can't land like that with the engine working!!!

[memphisbelle 99]

You may be right that a controller is the way to go, but look at these prices:

lol...noone said to get those cool but totally overdosed devices (although I would pretty much have fun with it).

No, what I was talking about was a price level like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Saitek-X52-Flight-Control-System-/320780074125?pt=Motherboards&hash=item4aaffb7c8d

Whereas this is still quite expensive.

Edited October 30, 2011 by MemphisBelle

[nightsta1ker 10]

Ok... just did, and passed the training first time go. Aside from issues with the flight dynamics that I have already identified (descent too slow, ground effect overexaggerated, and lack of torque/yaw effects) I think it was ok.

Not great, but ok. Definitely doable. Alot easier than in the real thing, that is for sure. I did all of this on expert settings with a real heli control setup.

Some tips, lower the collective then raise it to maintain 1000 fpm descent. Keep your forward speed around 60 until the flare. If you pull too much collective your rotors will stop turning. If you lower the collective too far, the instructor will complain about your rate of descent and you may undershoot the "pad". The second portion, to the ground, was much easier. At about 40 ft, flare by pulling back cyclic and slowing down, level at about 10 ft, and let the helicopter settle, using the collective as needed to keep the landing from being too hard.

Takes practice for begginners. That's all I can say. Practice practice practice. I've done hundreds of autos in the real thing and I still have room for improvement.

[OMAC 254]

That one's much more reasonable. BIS added a link to the most high-end ones, I guess.

---------- Post added at 01:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:52 PM ----------

Ok... just did, and passed the training first time go. Aside from issues with the flight dynamics that I have already identified (descent too slow, ground effect overexaggerated, and lack of torque/yaw effects) I think it was ok.

Not great, but ok. Definitely doable. Alot easier than in the real thing, that is for sure. I did all of this on expert settings with a real heli control setup.

Some tips, lower the collective then raise it to maintain 1000 fpm descent. Keep your forward speed around 60 until the flare. If you pull too much collective your rotors will stop turning. If you lower the collective too far, the instructor will complain about your rate of descent and you may undershoot the "pad". The second portion, to the ground, was much easier. At about 40 ft, flare by pulling back cyclic and slowing down, level at about 10 ft, and let the helicopter settle, using the collective as needed to keep the landing from being too hard.

Takes practice for begginners. That's all I can say. Practice practice practice. I've done hundreds of autos in the real thing and I still have room for improvement.

Thanks! I wasn't using collective at all, as the instructor lowered it to zero and set throttle to idle. No wonder I wasn't getting anywhere. I thought we weren't supposed to mess with it until the very end?

[memphisbelle 99]

Takes practice for begginners. That's all I can say. Practice practice practice. I've done hundreds of autos in the real thing and I still have room for improvement.

OT:

Are you still flying and what Helos are or have you been flying...just curious:D

/OT:

[nightsta1ker 10]

I have done quite a bit of training in R22s and S300s. I am currently an instructor at a school that uses S300s. Renton in fact, which is the airport that they had you do your autorotation training in the game. I have a few hours in some other ships (MD500, Bell 206, UH-1D) and I was in the service for many years as a Chinook Mechanic/Crewcheif and I have over 1000 hours of night, combat, NVG time as a crewmember.

---------- Post added at 07:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:07 PM ----------

That one's much more reasonable. BIS added a link to the most high-end ones, I guess.

---------- Post added at 01:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:52 PM ----------

Thanks! I wasn't using collective at all, as the instructor lowered it to zero and set throttle to idle. No wonder I wasn't getting anywhere. I thought we weren't supposed to mess with it until the very end?

Nope, when he says "lower the collective and bring the throttle to idle", you need to lower the collective all the way to enter the auto, then raise it a bit as necessary to get your desired descent rate. Use your cyclic to control your airspeed and rate of closure on your target area.

[Panther353 10]

That is not the proper way to do an auto. Interesting that I've seen that same error in FS2002, FS2004, FSX, and X-Plane.

[OMAC 254]

Like a foolish autorotation noob, I was trying to glide with collective set to zero. :o Not a good idea! At least I was wondering about the collective in my first post!

I do think that the instructor should mention that one should use collective to get you to your landing site - noobs can be confused into thinking that the collective should be kept at zero as it is to start your autorotation glide!

Thanks again. :)

[LeftSkidLow 1]

Depending on the rigging of a helicopter you sometimes have to pull in a little collective to keep the RPM from overspeeding. You can also adjust glide distance with rotor rpm/speed but usually it's just full down to the stops if the mechanics rigged it right. I remember having to pull in a bit of collective for that mission, seemed a little strange but you just do whatever it takes to get the aircraft to behave when it comes to helicopters.

[fboes 10]

Ok, so I have my excuse for trying auto-rotations the whole afternoon and messing it up big-time every time. :)

[nightsta1ker 10]

That is not the proper way to do an auto. Interesting that I've seen that same error in FS2002, FS2004, FSX, and X-Plane.

Care to elaborate Chris? I actually find that X-plane is pretty close to reality as far as autos go, depending on the helicopter of course.

---------- Post added at 10:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:05 PM ----------

Depending on the rigging of a helicopter you sometimes have to pull in a little collective to keep the RPM from overspeeding. You can also adjust glide distance with rotor rpm/speed but usually it's just full down to the stops if the mechanics rigged it right. I remember having to pull in a bit of collective for that mission, seemed a little strange but you just do whatever it takes to get the aircraft to behave when it comes to helicopters.

Depends on the type. In an R22 with two people, you need to keep an inch or so of collective in or you will overspeed the rotors. However, if you are by yourself, it will be down to the stop and you will have the low rotor horn going off the whole way down. Courtesy of a low inertia rotor system :cool:

[whiskeytango 11]

I got the point in the campaign where I needed to do an auto rotation. I did the training a few times and then managed to pull it off.

What do you do if you are in stationary hover though?

[Derbysieger 11]

After mastering the tutorial I really enjoy autorotations now. The mission with autorotation is awesome btw. I already replayed it several times.

[nightsta1ker 10]

I got the point in the campaign where I needed to do an auto rotation. I did the training a few times and then managed to pull it off.

What do you do if you are in stationary hover though?

Get that collective down all the way, nose it over for airspeed, and hopefully you have enough altitude to pull of a decent flare. Use whatever you've got, flare, level the skids at 10 feet and let it settle.

[OMAC 254]

After mastering the tutorial I really enjoy autorotations now. The mission with autorotation is awesome btw. I already replayed it several times.

Man, you are way ahead of me. I haven't even finished the training yet, let alone start the campaign. Done a lot of the time trials and challenges, tho. I want to get my skill set all together before starting the campaign. From what you wrote, that sounds like a very good idea. What I'm wondering is how feasible doing autorotations with kb/mouse is.......:eek:

[Derbysieger 11]

Man, you are way ahead of me. I haven't even finished the training yet, let alone start the campaign. Done a lot of the time trials and challenges, tho. I want to get my skill set all together before starting the campaign. From what you wrote, that sounds like a very good idea. What I'm wondering is how feasible doing autorotations with kb/mouse is.......:eek:

I honestly don't know. I have a simple Logitech Extreme 3D Pro joystick. The first time I played the mission with Auto-Trim enabled. With Auto-Trim disabled it's a lot harder but doable. I did it on my third attempt.

Edited October 30, 2011 by Derbysieger

[OMAC 254]

I've only tried on Expert so far (no autotrim), and have gotten nowhere, except the very first time I tried it, when I beat the safe altitude segment. Heaven only knows how I did that...... Third attempt? Looks like you have natural talent (and/or a controller)!

[LeftSkidLow 1]

I think it's important for you guys to understand that even in real life, learning to do an autorotation that won't kill/severely injure you takes many, many attempts and a patient......yet quick to react instructor to keep you from killing yourself. You guys are trying to learn how to do this without an instructor, without the extra sensory information of the real world, and probably no ground school theory. We never even taught full down auto-rotations until students were working on their CFI, which is usually close to 200 hours with several hundred autorotations to a power recovery under their belt.

Now obviously this game doesn't model everything exactly like a real autorotation but I think the core aspects are still there. The most important thing you can do is keep your eyes outside the cockpit. Sure, you need to glance at speed or RPM for a fraction of a second but don't ever stare at anything that is on your side of the windscreen. Try to get a feel of what nose attitude keeps an airspeed of about 60 knots so you don't need to look at the airspeed indicator. When you are flaring, use the horizon to judge your height. The most common cause of flaring too high or low is looking at the ground in front of you and not the horizon.

Edited October 31, 2011 by LeftSkidLow
more commas

[Bothersome 10]

I haven't tried the auto-rotation on the medium or heavy yet. But to me the light seemed like the head slowed too soon. Is that modeled correctly? I dunno about the full scale stuff.