Surviving a 50.cal Shot at 2300m

[Guest]

Hi All,

I have been doing some sniping with the Tac-50, at a range of 2300m. After several attempts, I hit a Russian right between the lungs.

He stood there, and then threw a smoke grenade.

I am using Ace mod, but I have seen similar in vanilla Arma 2.

So what gives? Why did he survive a 50.cal round to the chest?

:(

[dysta 10]

Was it under-range, the bullet hit the floor and bounce to the body? If so then sorry.

[Guest]

Nope, the bullet hit him first time clean in the chest.

:/

[dysta 10]

Hmm... that's an extreme case. However I know something that I really dislike is the bullet penetration, I did fired a .50cal at the enemy but his rifle is on the way, of course he's still breathing.

And yea, several players already complained and ticketed the weak damage in long engagement, maybe it's the ACE has changed the damage by using the damage cone instead of hitpoint.

[Beagle 684]

As you may have noticed, all russians in game are considered wearing body armor. Additionaly 2300m is way beyond the considered maximum effective range of the .50 BMG...since AII calculates loss of energy...the round simply had not the power to penetrate the body armour...soldier pops smoke for concealment...thats it.

The end

Try the same with a civilian...civilians are not simulated wearing body armor.

[Guest]

As you may have noticed, all russians in game are considered wearing body armor. Additionaly 2300m is way beyond the considered maximum effective range of the .50 BMG...since AII calculates loss of energy...the round simply had not the power to penetrate the body armour...soldier pops smoke for concealment...thats it.

The end

Try the same with a civilian...civilians are not simulated wearing body armor.

Regarding body armour, you could be very correct, I will go and test this now.

I just landed a neck shot, and 3 leg shots, on 2 different soldiers, and still did not get 1 KIA. Will try with Civ's instead!

[HyperU2 11]

It happens a lot sadly.

[Guest]

Indeed, I tried with Civ's, and I landed a head shot straight away, the guy just stood there.

I landed 4 leg shots on 4 different guys, they all layed down, but none died, which seems ok.

I know 2300m is an extreme range, but it is the approx distance of the longest confirmed kill in history, which belongs to the Tac-50.

Looks like uber long range sniping isn't possible in Arma 2. I am going to try from 1500m and see if there are any changes.

[sickboy 13]

ACE Wounds on/off? On should give best experience, though effects might be delayed - blood loss (incl death by), pain and unconsciousness etc.

Difficulty settings, Extended Armor on/off? Smells like on ;-) If so, turn it off and restart the mission.

With ACE enabled, there should be a warning in the RPT file, if Extended Armor is enabled.

(e.g: [167,43.644,0,"x\ace\addons\sys_wounds\XEH_preInit.sqf:8","WARNING: Enhanced Armor difficulty options enabled - this is not recommended in conjunction with ACE Wounds!"])

Also note that in the original game, damage is halved when units are prone (http://dev-heaven.net/issues/20441), and headshots sometimes faulty register as body or other parts instead (related: http://dev-heaven.net/issues/23310).

The damage halving is solved when ACE wounds is enabled, but the headshots are not and probably needs to be fixed in the game.

Edited September 3, 2011 by Sickboy

[Guest]

Hi Sickboy,

I am playing on expert, with every possible assist off. I did not have ace wounds on, is that one of the modules? If so do I simply place it, or will I need to synchronise it with myself?

I just tried again from a much easier 1500m, I got abody shot on a Russian, instant kill, followed by a head shot on another, instant kill.

So from closer, things seem much better.

I will try again from 2300m with civilians, using the wounding system. It's pretty damn hard to even land a shot haha, but I'll reprt back on my findings!

:)

[dysta 10]

Looks like uber long range sniping isn't possible in Arma 2. I am going to try from 1500m and see if there are any changes.

I've tried at 2000m, civ as a target, bullet right at the torso but still standing.

[sickboy 13]

Hi Sickboy,

I am playing on expert, with every possible assist off. I did not have ace wounds on, is that one of the modules? If so do I simply place it, or will I need to synchronise it with myself?

I just tried again from a much easier 1500m, I got abody shot on a Russian, instant kill, followed by a head shot on another, instant kill.

So from closer, things seem much better.

I will try again from 2300m with civilians, using the wounding system. It's pretty damn hard to even land a shot haha, but I'll reprt back on my findings!

:)

Sure thing, just place the Enable Wounds module, that's all.

[Guest]

With the wounding module on, I managed one first shot KIA, and 3 wounded.

Moved up to 1500m, and get several KIA instantly.

It definitely feels a lot better with the wounding module! I think the 50.cal is still extremely under powered at anything beyond 1500m, but I do not know if that is an issue with the engine, or whether it can actually be fixed.

In all honesty, you will rarely be sniping beyond 1000m, so it's not a big issue, but it's definitely something worth noting.

Anyway, I better get off to bed! Thanks for the great Ace mod anyway, it has improved everything 10 fold for me!

:D

[dysta 10]

Yea, works properly of the damage.

Tried at 2000m with 2 targets, one russian army behind a taki civ in 1 meter. I got the initial hit when the bullet penetrated the civilian and wounded the hostile, the civil is killed though. lol

Now I will surely have it on when editing mission with ACE.

[lsp 10]

Use SLX its modular so you can only use the damage file if you want I do and people drop when you hit them I wont play without it.Body armor or no body armor it doesn matter

[domokun 515]

Use SLX its modular so you can only use the damage file if you want I do and people drop when you hit them I wont play without it.Body armor or no body armor it doesn matter

Which pbos from SLX do you use to ensure proper wounding?

[JdB 151]

Indeed, I tried with Civ's, and I landed a head shot straight away, the guy just stood there.

I landed 4 leg shots on 4 different guys, they all layed down, but none died, which seems ok.

I know 2300m is an extreme range, but it is the approx distance of the longest confirmed kill in history, which belongs to the Tac-50.

Looks like uber long range sniping isn't possible in Arma 2. I am going to try from 1500m and see if there are any changes.

Wrong, the longest kill in history was with an L115A3 (Arctic Warfare Magnum) firing a .338 bullet at 2475m. Still, even if you managed to hit someone in the head with any round from any dedicated sniper rifle at that distance he should go down, perhaps not dead, but knocked out none the less. The problem is the many factors and variables that come into play with ArmA2, including bugs and limitations in the design of the hitpoint system. I hope it is radically improved in ArmA3, not just updated.

[Guest]

Wrong, the longest kill in history was with an L115A3 (Arctic Warfare Magnum) firing a .338 bullet at 2475m. Still, even if you managed to hit someone in the head with any round from any dedicated sniper rifle at that distance he should go down, perhaps not dead, but knocked out none the less. The problem is the many factors and variables that come into play with ArmA2, including bugs and limitations in the design of the hitpoint system. I hope it is radically improved in ArmA3, not just updated.

Ah, didn't know there was an even longer shot, and it was a UK soldier so even better! :D

I also hope they improve all these things in Arma 3, time will tell!

[metalcraze 290]

Don't forget that your Tac-50 first and foremost is a mod weapon designed specifically to work with ACE (meaning with ACE damage system).

[galzohar 31]

Interesting, I thought ACE wounds usually makes things *harder* to kill (as long as you're not willing to wait until they bleed to death). At least in most cases that's what seems to happen (I play often with both ACE wounds on and off).

[SPC.Spets 21]

bullet penetration doesnt exist in arma2, I aligned 5 soldiers in column and shoot them with a 50cal from 300mts and only the soldier in the front dies

[Guest]

bullet penetration doesnt exist in arma2, I aligned 5 soldiers in column and shoot them with a 50cal from 300mts and only the soldier in the front dies

I did the same test from point blanc with a 50.cal, and also nothing happened.

But basic bullet penetration is there, you can shoot through fences and car doors.

[galzohar 31]

Arma has penetration, it's just not simulated properly for everything. But there are definitely objects that can be penetrated, ex: glass, wood, vegetation.

[-GR-Operative 10]

bullet penetration doesnt exist in arma2, I aligned 5 soldiers in column and shoot them with a 50cal from 300mts and only the soldier in the front dies

Maybe the bullet changed direction after hiting the first enemy and so missed the others?

[Guest]

Operative;2017329']Maybe the bullet changed direction after hiting the first enemy and so missed the others?

I believe it is actually just a part of the game, I assume, certain objects must have penetration values or something.

A car door for example, might absorb 10% damage from every bullet. A fence might absorb 5% damage. Maybe even a wall absorbs 80% damage.

But it appears humans absorb 100% damage from bullets, maybe due to the hit point system? But either way, once a bullet hit's a person, it completely stops.

None of the above is actual fact, it is just my assumptions, but it seems to me like what's going on anyway lol.

I think perhaps the way bullet penetration works in Arma 2, could be similar to this:

If an m107 bullet does for example, (total made up numbers here), 100 damage, shooting a car door, the door will take away 10 damage, bringing it down to 90, and then the bullet keeps going.

But with humans, the bullet needs to do all 100 damage to the human, because that's the whole point of the bullet. So there is no percent of damage left to travel through to someone else.

If they made the bullet go through the first human, say it did 50 damage to him, then it could travel through, and do a further 50 damage to the second guy. But that would make no sense of course!

So, imo, and I am probably completely wrong, the hit point system is very poor at simulating bullet penetration.

But I just made all that up, and have no idea how Arma 2 works, so don't lol at me when it turns out I am totally wrong! :p