FCS for helicopters.

[Tom1 10]

You're simply not going to see that level of simulation in ArmA3, unless they do it as a seperate DLC or something similarly plugin. Mando's mod, is a generic realism addon that works for most cases. The DCS stuff is far more specific to those individual aircraft.

^this

DCS is awesome but too specific and too much work for BIS to make in an infantry sim IMO.

[5LEvEN 11]

^this

DCS is awesome but too specific and too much work for BIS to make in an infantry sim IMO.

Please give me a source for where BIS said arma was an infantry simulator? I have not seen it in any of there advertisements, nor I have I seen it in any statements made by them... As I have stated before... I think people believe arma is an infantry simulator because it's the best simulated part in the game, but I have yet to see one developer state it is an infantry simulator. I believe arma is more a general combat simulator (based on advertisements, features, content, and game play), which is it's flaw...

Nothing in the game is not in need of improvements to make it more of a simulator... Aircraft and land vehicles are the worst simulated by far... Which is why you see a push from a lot of people to increase it's simulation... Also since arma already has great infantry simulation with just minor improvements needed, I do not see this at all as too much work... It should be one of the main focus's for arma 3 (increase simulation of land and air vehicles)...

Honestly what in the world do you think will take them a year to do involving the simulation of infantry? Revamped animations are not necessary, but is wanted to make movement more fluid (so don't try saying animations as something)...

Am I the ONLY one thinking like this????:confused:

[subs17 9]

^this

DCS is awesome but too specific and too much work for BIS to make in an infantry sim IMO.

OA already features the basics required to get it up to a realistic level of employment. The missing pieces are simple features like ground stabilised image, 3d clickable pit, working MFDs. As it is we can already buddy lase etc. Plus there needs to be CCIP sight in the HUD.

---------- Post added at 08:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:02 PM ----------

In fact, MMA is a framework bringing a kernel to create any type of missile warfare you want at mission level, scripted, so with full control of all the parameters and not depending on fixed values in any addon. Aside of that, MMA also comes with some usable examples like HUD, MCC, TV, Sam control. But these are just usage examples. People tend to believe that MMA is just that, the examples, and they miss completely the purpose of the pack: that you build your own systems, for you and for the community.

Is it possible with Mando missiles to model a good CCIP sight for the HUD for accurate delivery of bombs and CBUs?

[5LEvEN 11]

OA already features the basics required to get it up to a realistic level of employment. The missing pieces are simple features like ground stabilised image, 3d clickable pit, working MFDs. As it is we can already buddy lase etc. Plus there needs to be CCIP sight in the HUD.

---------- Post added at 08:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:02 PM ----------

Is it possible with Mando missiles to model a good CCIP sight for the HUD for accurate delivery of bombs and CBUs?

I believe you are leaving out the CCRP sight :)... Keep in mind this thread was started for helicopters though...

[Tom1 10]

yeah man you're right, it isn't just an infantry sim, but IMO might as well be due to lack of detail in all other aspects, although if this could be changed in arma 3 I would happilly pay extra for the game :D

DCS though is quite hardcore and I don't know if that much detail could be put into a game in one year of developement for EACH plane, helicopter and een ground vehicles too, IMO.

[5LEvEN 11]

yeah man you're right, it isn't just an infantry sim, but IMO might as well be due to lack of detail in all other aspects, although if this could be changed in arma 3 I would happilly pay extra for the game :D

DCS though is quite hardcore and I don't know if that much detail could be put into a game in one year of developement for EACH plane, helicopter and een ground vehicles too, IMO.

I agree DCS is a bar set too high. But things like a simple start up procedure, functional counter measure systems, FCS, and MFD/MPD's should not be to difficult to add in a year...

Look what it took to make DCS A-10C at its current level of simulation. It had betas with very good testers with a decent amount of knowledge about the aircraft and a very good amount of knowledge about flight mechanics. The dev's for DCS update even the little things for realism... For example the lights on the panel that shows warnings for systems (can't remember the name :o ) where blue, someone noticed that in recent pictures of the A-10C they are green, they posted a forum about it, next update they are now green. Same with the warning light for the APU generator during start up... And it is still being updated for realism... So yeah, every single aircraft is WAY too much...

[mandoble 1]

Is it possible with Mando missiles to model a good CCIP sight for the HUD for accurate delivery of bombs and CBUs?

Have you tried the one that already comes with default MMA setup? Use a Harrier with iron bombs, move to CCIP mode (use L.CTRL by default to cycle HUD modes).

[JojoTheSlayer 35]

They should add something more advanced in regards to what type of weapon it is, but still keep tab locking for the lower difficult settigns.

[*LK1* 10]

Please give me a source for where BIS said arma was an infantry simulator? I have not seen it in any of there advertisements, nor I have I seen it in any statements made by them... As I have stated before... I think people believe arma is an infantry simulator because it's the best simulated part in the game, but I have yet to see one developer state it is an infantry simulator. I believe arma is more a general combat simulator (based on advertisements, features, content, and game play), which is it's flaw...

Nothing in the game is not in need of improvements to make it more of a simulator... Aircraft and land vehicles are the worst simulated by far... Which is why you see a push from a lot of people to increase it's simulation... Also since arma already has great infantry simulation with just minor improvements needed, I do not see this at all as too much work... It should be one of the main focus's for arma 3 (increase simulation of land and air vehicles)...

Honestly what in the world do you think will take them a year to do involving the simulation of infantry? Revamped animations are not necessary, but is wanted to make movement more fluid (so don't try saying animations as something)...

Am I the ONLY one thinking like this????:confused:

no you are not. i guess 50% of this forum thinks in this way.

[purepassion 22]

Please give me a source for where BIS said arma was an infantry simulator? I have not seen it in any of there advertisements, nor I have I seen it in any statements made by them...

no problem,

you

;)

[5LEvEN 11]

no problem,

you

;)

LOL... I hope you're being sarcastic...

[subs17 9]

I believe you are leaving out the CCRP sight :)... Keep in mind this thread was started for helicopters though...

I'm keeping it simple but the list should look like this to cover everything:

CCIP

MAN(Manual)

DTOS(Dive/Toss)

CCRP(Opically/A/G Radar/Lofting cue/level delivery/JDAM with grid coords)

Although this is the delivery modes for the F-16 its what JSF/Harrier should also use. The KA50 also carrys bombs IRL and uses MAN mode for delivery. As for FCS for Helos these tgting methods are used by AH64 as well. Looking in detail at aircraft how they should employing weapons.

JSF:

LGBs - should use tgting pod view like the ULB view

- 1st depress of tgt lock should ground stabilise for ease of tgting followed by TDC slew onto tgt then 2nd lock to remain locked to tgt.

- laser should be armed and codes preset

- CCRP line in hud, pickle depressed but auto bomb release when in range. TGT should continue to be lased until tgt hit.(IRL laser doesn't fire until last 15 seconds(adjustable time) before impact.

- TGT Pod view also has WHOT/BHOT modes.

- Buddy lasing for other aircraft as well as JTAC lasing.

- CCIP sight for manual delivery of iron bombs.

- A/A radar real scan pattern not 360 degrees although IRL it will detect aircraft 360 degrees due to other sensors and data link.(JSF is tricky to model as IRL its sensors are extremely good it will colour enemy as red in the helmet mounted sight and friendly as green).

- JDAMs Grid coord input and CCRP line for delivery.

A-10

- CCIP sight for iron bombs/CBUs maybe add AD(arming delay) and BA(Burst Altitude) although not a show stopper to not have these settings.

- rocket/cannon sight requires a range indicator for accurate straffing.

Maverick sight MFD- requires WHOT/BHOT view, zoom ground stabilise and lock.(like LGBs view)

- Sidewinder missile

Harrier - Like JSF aside 360 degree tgt A/A, A/G identification.

AH64D - Similar to JSF LGB although without CCRP bomb fall line for Hellfires/gun.

- A/G radar but on MFD with TDC slew and lock plus with LOAL mode and LOBL mode(already modeled in ACE2 although I have yet to see it work.

- 3d pit requires MFD view.

Most of this stuff already exists in OA its just a matter of the aircraft getting a few tweaks to make the weapons procedure better.

---------- Post added at 11:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:38 AM ----------

Have you tried the one that already comes with default MMA setup? Use a Harrier with iron bombs, move to CCIP mode (use L.CTRL by default to cycle HUD modes).

I'll test it out today, its the 1st time I've heard of it.

cheers

Subs

[kremator 1064]

no you are not. i guess 50% of this forum thinks in this way.

I suppose you are going to tell me that, statistically 6 out of 7 dwarfs are not happy too!

Too much crap spouted in these arma3 forums already.

[5LEvEN 11]

A-10

- CCIP sight for iron bombs/CBUs maybe add AD(arming delay) and BA(Burst Altitude) although not a show stopper to not have these settings.

- rocket/cannon sight requires a range indicator for accurate straffing.

Maverick sight MFD- requires WHOT/BHOT view, zoom ground stabilise and lock.(like LGBs view)

- Sidewinder missile

CCIP for bombing runs, is basically the dive bombing method... The A-10C can utilize CCRP which is where you can fly level and drop your bombs accurate. It helps to avoid AAA fire. Rockets can use CCIP or CCRP. CCIP for rockets is the same as CCIP for the gun. While CCRP for rockets allows you to fire at longer ranges, although your accuracy will be diminished. To use CCIP for the gun or rockets you must have elevation data for where your target is. The gun also has three other sights it can use, each one requires you to know the distance from you to your target (this is where the lighting 2 pod is very handy). With the A-10C and the lighting 2 pod there is no need to find and lock on with the MAV sensor alone. The MAV sensor is very low resolution, so it is not hard to target a friendly vehicle on accident in a battlefield like arma... Sidewinder missiles, like the Mavericks can use the lighting 2 pod to locate and identify targets. Sidewinders have a circular sight on the HUD that you must line up with the target, you will hear a growl noise when in AA mode on the HUD, and while hear a higher pitch growl when you have a lock with a sidewinder... Also in the A-10C it needs a 3 minute calibration/warm up time for the lighting 2 pod, and mavericks... So even on a big island like lemnos, the CAS A-10C is not really going to work all that great, unless they fix the speed of the A-10C... The only way it would work is if people would fly out into the ocean, and after some time turn back to the island to provide CAS. Basically the armaverse is horrible for fixed wing aircraft, jets would be even worse...

Just to clarify some things for people :p

[*LK1* 10]

I suppose you are going to tell me that, statistically 6 out of 7 dwarfs are not happy too!.

so what's your point...

[subs17 9]

CCIP for bombing runs, is basically the dive bombing method... The A-10C can utilize CCRP which is where you can fly level and drop your bombs accurate. It helps to avoid AAA fire. Rockets can use CCIP or CCRP. CCIP for rockets is the same as CCIP for the gun. While CCRP for rockets allows you to fire at longer ranges, although your accuracy will be diminished. To use CCIP for the gun or rockets you must have elevation data for where your target is. The gun also has three other sights it can use, each one requires you to know the distance from you to your target (this is where the lighting 2 pod is very handy). With the A-10C and the lighting 2 pod there is no need to find and lock on with the MAV sensor alone. The MAV sensor is very low resolution, so it is not hard to target a friendly vehicle on accident in a battlefield like arma... Sidewinder missiles, like the Mavericks can use the lighting 2 pod to locate and identify targets. Sidewinders have a circular sight on the HUD that you must line up with the target, you will hear a growl noise when in AA mode on the HUD, and while hear a higher pitch growl when you have a lock with a sidewinder... Also in the A-10C it needs a 3 minute calibration/warm up time for the lighting 2 pod, and mavericks... So even on a big island like lemnos, the CAS A-10C is not really going to work all that great, unless they fix the speed of the A-10C... The only way it would work is if people would fly out into the ocean, and after some time turn back to the island to provide CAS. Basically the armaverse is horrible for fixed wing aircraft, jets would be even worse...

Just to clarify some things for people :p

I have DCS A-10C too but we are talking A-10A here BTW elevation data is gathered by the Radar Altimeter taking a slice in front of the aircraft which is how it knows for CCIP. SU25 uses a different method by employing a laser range finder.;)

[twisted 127]

CCIP

MAN(Manual)

DTOS(Dive/Toss)

CCRP(Opically/A/G Radar/Lofting cue/level delivery/JDAM with grid coords)

Although this is the delivery modes for the F-16 its what JSF/Harrier should also use. The KA50 also carrys bombs IRL and uses MAN mode for delivery. As for FCS for Helos these tgting methods are used by AH64 as well. Looking in detail at aircraft how they should employing weapons.

JSF:

LGBs - should use tgting pod view like the ULB view

- 1st depress of tgt lock should ground stabilise for ease of tgting followed by TDC slew onto tgt then 2nd lock to remain locked to tgt.

- laser should be armed and codes preset

- CCRP line in hud, pickle depressed but auto bomb release when in range. TGT should continue to be lased until tgt hit.(IRL laser doesn't fire until last 15 seconds(adjustable time) before impact.

- TGT Pod view also has WHOT/BHOT modes.

- Buddy lasing for other aircraft as well as JTAC lasing.

- CCIP sight for manual delivery of iron bombs.

- A/A radar real scan pattern not 360 degrees although IRL it will detect aircraft 360 degrees due to other sensors and data link.(JSF is tricky to model as IRL its sensors are extremely good it will colour enemy as red in the helmet mounted sight and friendly as green).

- JDAMs Grid coord input and CCRP line for delivery.

A-10

- CCIP sight for iron bombs/CBUs maybe add AD(arming delay) and BA(Burst Altitude) although not a show stopper to not have these settings.

- rocket/cannon sight requires a range indicator for accurate straffing.

Maverick sight MFD- requires WHOT/BHOT view, zoom ground stabilise and lock.(like LGBs view)

- Sidewinder missile

Harrier - Like JSF aside 360 degree tgt A/A, A/G identification.

AH64D - Similar to JSF LGB although without CCRP bomb fall line for Hellfires/gun.

- A/G radar but on MFD with TDC slew and lock plus with LOAL mode and LOBL mode(already modeled in ACE2 although I have yet to see it work.

- 3d pit requires MFD view.

this would make piloting a lot more interesting for me. hope at least this level of attention is given. More would be awesome but time is not finite.

[5LEvEN 11]

I have DCS A-10C too but we are talking A-10A here BTW elevation data is gathered by the Radar Altimeter taking a slice in front of the aircraft which is how it knows for CCIP. SU25 uses a different method by employing a laser range finder.;)

The game is set in the future... So I think if BIS is using the A-10A then they really don't know what they are doing when it comes to aircraft... The A-10A is slowly being phased out (upgraded) to the A-10C... Which is why I am talking about the A-10C not the A-10A.... BTW using the radar I have always found that my aim using the CCIP is always off...

EDIT: Even at this very moment the A-10C is the primary A-10... So yeah, the A-10A is outdated...

[subs17 9]

Are you applying the marksmanship principals to your delivery using CCIP? Read the USAF F-16 manual it details there how to accurately use CCIP which is what methods I use in all flight sims. For CCIP in DCS A-10C you can use CCIP and CCIP CR modes both are good and I suggest you read up on it. F-16 manual will greatly increase your accuracy particularly in cross wind as you use crabbing during CCIP to hit the tgt. BTW A-10A uses the radar altimeter for CCIP/CCRP modes.

The answer may be an A-10C but its up to the devs the options are a decent 3d pit clickable with working MFDs much like mentioned in my previous post(same could also be used for SU25T). The ultimate is the DCS A-10C in A3 or BI making take on Jets addon.

Edited July 25, 2011 by SUBS17

[5LEvEN 11]

I use the tactics given in the USAF A-10 manual... I do not use the same tactics for the A-10 as the F-16 because they are different aircraft that perform differently... Using the same tactics for each method (CCIP using radar and manually inputting elevation data) I find that inputting elevation data manually is much more accurate...

If BIS is going to include an A-10 at the very least I would like proper CCIP sights for the gun... As of right now I have to get in within 1000m to start firing on the target so it hits, but in a simulator like DCS I can start firing at 2NM away... Kind of a huge difference...

[subs17 9]

Thats what its designed to do in particular using the gun against the 23mm gun on the Shilka which has less range IRL the A-10 can destroy it before the Shilka fires back. Its not tactics but weapons employment that I was refering to regarding CCIP. The USAF F-16 manual covers the reasons why bombs miss! And thats from a variety of reasons not just wind etc But also if you are attacking a tgt on a hill, valley. Its a very good manual and its why I can bomb very small buildings in F4AF, FC2, DCS A-10C. DCS A-10C the altitude you're setting is the Min low altitude not altitude of the tgt for CCIP or CCIP CR. Its actually easier to also drop in CCRP because of the TGT pod which is another good method. For FC2 the A-10A is quite limited in delivery methods because it does not have a tgting pod. So CCRP is through the HUD only the other altitude setting is the BA Burst Altitude for cluster bombs although its done manually by the ground crew the pilot can still set it in the A-10A, F-16, (haven't yet found it in the C :D)

[5LEvEN 11]

Thats what its designed to do in particular using the gun against the 23mm gun on the Shilka which has less range IRL the A-10 can destroy it before the Shilka fires back. Its not tactics but weapons employment that I was refering to regarding CCIP. The USAF F-16 manual covers the reasons why bombs miss! And thats from a variety of reasons not just wind etc But also if you are attacking a tgt on a hill, valley. Its a very good manual and its why I can bomb very small buildings in F4AF, FC2, DCS A-10C. DCS A-10C the altitude you're setting is the Min low altitude not altitude of the tgt for CCIP or CCIP CR. Its actually easier to also drop in CCRP because of the TGT pod which is another good method. For FC2 the A-10A is quite limited in delivery methods because it does not have a tgting pod. So CCRP is through the HUD only the other altitude setting is the BA Burst Altitude for cluster bombs although its done manually by the ground crew the pilot can still set it in the A-10A, F-16, (haven't yet found it in the C :D)

I guess it was not said I was talking about the GAU-8/A (btw its a 30mm) with CCIP... I rarely use the CCIP for bombs, I use CCRP for bombs, as it is just as accurate and keeps me away from AAA fire, and also from SA-13, SA-18, SA-8, and the SA-9, or make my exposure to them very limited... Although when dropping bombs without a tail kit to correct for variations, it is a little less accurate, but will destroy the target...

In the A-10C you are looking for HOF, and RPM for CBU's... When adjusting weapons check the DSMS profile page, and the DSMS Inventory page...

[wolfbite 8]

Where can I get these manuals?

[5LEvEN 11]

Where can I get these manuals?

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=60293

[Haystack15 10]

Where can I get these manuals?

That reminds me, How much detail do you think BIS will put into the manuals for FCS in ARMA III if it is implemented?

P.S: whats with the Poll question?

how would you like to shoot your dildos.

I don't think I would....

Edited July 26, 2011 by Haystack15