Automatic Mod Downloading

[doveman 7]

You might see this soon in PwS also, we've basically got all we need for it, just need to allot the time :)

I don't think there's any way for PwS to determine which mods a mission requires at the moment though is there? This is why I suggested that the necessary meta-data be made part of the spec for ArmA3 missions and for old ArmA2 missions, a simple text file containing the list of required mods.

[sickboy 13]

I don't think there's any way for PwS to determine which mods a mission requires at the moment though is there? This is why I suggested that the necessary meta-data be made part of the spec for ArmA3 missions and for old ArmA2 missions, a simple text file containing the list of required mods.

There is, the mission.sqm defines the required cfgpatches, so it's a matter of mapping cfgpatches to addons and addons to mods.

[doveman 7]

There is, the mission.sqm defines the required cfgpatches, so it's a matter of mapping cfgpatches to addons and addons to mods.

OK, but what about what GossamerSolid said here? http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?120878-Automatic-Mod-Downloading&p=2244650&viewfull=1#post2244650

"Only works if the content is physically already on the map at mission compilation.

If something is added in at runtime (example, via createVehicle), it'd cause problems still.

A possible way to fix this is for the engine to only allow functions/code/etc to reference third party classnames if a reference to these third party addon files is made within the addons array in the sqm file."

[gossamersolid 155]

OK, but what about what GossamerSolid said here? http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?120878-Automatic-Mod-Downloading&p=2244650&viewfull=1#post2244650

"Only works if the content is physically already on the map at mission compilation.

If something is added in at runtime (example, via createVehicle), it'd cause problems still.

A possible way to fix this is for the engine to only allow functions/code/etc to reference third party classnames if a reference to these third party addon files is made within the addons array in the sqm file."

Unless it has changed in A3 or later OA patches, that's how it worked.

I ran into the issue when Operation Arrowhead came out and I was making a Combined Operations mission. I didn't have any reference to A2 objects on the map (Takistan) and OA players would join, get into the mission and then complain that things were invisible.

[rory_pamphilon 16]

Hi sickboy,

Are you able to shed some light on what will be shipped with the full release of arma 3? Will we get an internal mod downloader within arma 3 or pws2 or steamworks?

If we get pws2 how do you intend on stopping the issue I noted at the start of this thread in that people using the internal server browser wont be able to access modded multiplayer games?

Also regarding the UI of pws im afraid it does not come across as straight forward. There are too many odd ways to open menus, triangular buttons, too many collapsing menus, it takes a while to get used to it and remember us here on the forums are the geeky end of the arma player spectrum. It should be v v simple for us. Dayz commander does it beautifully. Dont get me wrong you have put in some incredible work and we all are in your debt for that. I think though there is still room for improvement if yours is the only mod dl solution that will be shipped with arma 3.

Kind regards

[sickboy 13]

OK, but what about what GossamerSolid said here? http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?120878-Automatic-Mod-Downloading&p=2244650&viewfull=1#post2244650

"Only works if the content is physically already on the map at mission compilation.

If something is added in at runtime (example, via createVehicle), it'd cause problems still.

A possible way to fix this is for the engine to only allow functions/code/etc to reference third party classnames if a reference to these third party addon files is made within the addons array in the sqm file."

We could interpret the code to some extent, but it would be somewhat annoying and inaccurate probably. Supplying additional metadata with the mission will probably be best.

---------- Post added at 11:04 ---------- Previous post was at 10:59 ----------

Hi sickboy,

Are you able to shed some light on what will be shipped with the full release of arma 3? Will we get an internal mod downloader within arma 3 or pws2 or steamworks?

If we get pws2 how do you intend on stopping the issue I noted at the start of this thread in that people using the internal server browser wont be able to access modded multiplayer games?

Also regarding the UI of pws im afraid it does not come across as straight forward. There are too many odd ways to open menus, triangular buttons, too many collapsing menus, it takes a while to get used to it and remember us here on the forums are the geeky end of the arma player spectrum. It should be v v simple for us. Dayz commander does it beautifully. Dont get me wrong you have put in some incredible work and we all are in your debt for that. I think though there is still room for improvement if yours is the only mod dl solution that will be shipped with arma 3.

Kind regards

Hi Rory,

BI is deploying Steam stuff, I am not fully aware of the extent and exact plans, no-one probably knows exactly :)

In regards to our stuff (SIX), we're constantly working on improving the software and services.

We have some major releases lined up for the coming weeks, and also a major UI overhaul for the coming months that focuses on clean and simple design.

We've also got stuff in place to deal with joining servers in game with the right addons, however our recommendation is using the external browser when possible because it can offer a lot more in terms of search/filtering/social integration etc,

at least at this time.

Edited June 11, 2013 by Sickboy

[no use for a name 0]

I would rather have a clear list/links for mods in the server list, so you can easily ID what mods the servers are running and have the choice to DL them

[doveman 7]

Woohoo, this has been assigned at last, so hopefully our dreams will come true soon ;) http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=6428

[rory_pamphilon 16]

Woohoo! That is fantastic news. Steam workshop is the way forward. Soon we will have multiplayer games with mods running and full of people playing. No more getting kicked cos you havnt got the right mods loaded :-)

[marker 1]

I can see how this is going to work...

Join server, kicked due to not correct mods, game automatically downloads them from the steam workshop, but only if they are available from there... Games restarts, adds in the mod line and joins the last server you played on..

The problem will be that not many, especially the experienced modders will upload their mod to Steam.

[rory_pamphilon 16]

I can see how this is going to work...

Join server, kicked due to not correct mods, game automatically downloads them from the steam workshop, but only if they are available from there... Games restarts, adds in the mod line and joins the last server you played on..

The problem will be that not many, especially the experienced modders will upload their mod to Steam.

Why wouldn't anybody want to put their mod onto steam workshop? It's a world stage that has so much more visibility than putting it anywhere else.

[R0adki11 3949]

Why wouldn't anybody want to put their mod onto steam workshop? It's a world stage that has so much more visibility than putting it anywhere else.

There are many reasons regarding this which is due to Copyright and ownership concerns from a number of mod and addon makers.

[rory_pamphilon 16]

Anybody from BIS or on here have any more news on this?

I heard the next step after missions being shared on steam workshop was for the ability to have mods on there also (assuming they stick to workshop file size limit obv) ?

I think this would be the last piece in the puzzle as currently any missions on steam workshop that need mods to function force the player to download these seperatley, it would be awesome if you just select a mission and steam workshop works out which if any mods you need for it and downloads those for you :)

[doveman 7]

Anybody from BIS or on here have any more news on this?

I heard the next step after missions being shared on steam workshop was for the ability to have mods on there also (assuming they stick to workshop file size limit obv) ?

I think this would be the last piece in the puzzle as currently any missions on steam workshop that need mods to function force the player to download these seperatley, it would be awesome if you just select a mission and steam workshop works out which if any mods you need for it and downloads those for you :)

Whilst that would be an improvement, I can't see how it would work as once launched the ArmA engine is loaded and mods can't be enabled after that, so you couldn't select a Steam mission that requires mods from the in-game menu, without it having to close and restart ArmA anyway, which would be tedious. Much better would be a redesign to separate the Launcher GUI and the Engine as already suggested, so that we could select a mission with mods from the Launcher part and it would then launch the engine with those mods. We also need to be able to add additional mods that we might want to use with a mission and not be tied to only being able to launch the mission with the mods specified by the mission maker.

[Smurf 12]

I don't think mod integration is far away. About time I might say, WILL change MP scene for sure. Yes, people are that "lazy".

[quote name=

Karel Mořický]Seems my personal #Arma3 project is now "significant new multiplayer feature"

https://twitter.com/KarelMoricky/status/393360797855784960

Don't miss #GDS2013, I'll speak about #Arma3 development, Steam integration and our splendid community

https://twitter.com/KarelMoricky/status/392918246996713472

And my guts says this is related to the upcoming PwS2, ACRE2, ACE3 and more..... This or the deployment of updated tools.

EDIT: Assumptions only....

Edited November 9, 2013 by Smurf

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

It weeds out the idiots and people with an attention span of a potato. (read: dedicated CoD/Battlefield players)

Watch yourself, i am a dedicated Battlefield player, but i play this when i'm down for some dedicated Team based and realism type action and moments. Whilst Arma is a great product, it needs work. When i'm not playing games, i'm usually picking around the forums looking for topics i can lend some insight on, or give ideas and suggestions. But as for this topic, it's correct that the multiplayer mod download, would have to be done via. 3rd party type launcher, rather than in Vanilla to reduce lag and issues.

[chortles 263]

I don't think mod integration is far away. About time I might say, WILL change MP scene for sure. Yes, people are that "lazy".

Heck, this company is run by a guy who is "too ‘lazy’ to manually download and maintain future updates of user-made content."

[progamer 14]

How about when a server goes to grab the mods for the player to download, the server owner has a default (steam workshop) and a custom (example: Armaholic)?

Basically, depending on the settings a server would look for the mods in a different place.

[L3TUC3 32]

How about when a server goes to grab the mods for the player to download, the server owner has a default (steam workshop) and a custom (example: Armaholic)?

Basically, depending on the settings a server would look for the mods in a different place.

The source engine solved it for maps by allowing a separate file server web address definition in the configuration that acted as a repository for players who did not have the maps installed yet. It really helped stop people from dropping upon a mapswitch with custom maps.

This sort of feature would work excellently, albeit the engine would need to be altered to allow on the fly enabling/disabling (restartless) and loading of addons.

[rory_pamphilon 16]

Hopefully the next step will to enable mods on steam workshop and allow the missions on steam workshop to be linked to the mods required for them. I know there is a size limit for steam workshop but a lot of missions just utilise one or two mods that are currently a bit of a PITA to download, unzip, extract etc.. This would mean you can get everything from one source, missions and mods.

To enable the downloading and installation of mods that are required for a certain server that is probably more complex but hopefully not off BIS's radar.

[doveman 7]

Clearly I was naive to think that this being assigned in September 2013 meant it was actually going to be actioned :(

 

I'm very disappointed, especially considering that BIS said their focus with A3 was going to be on user-created content, that they still haven't given us a way to easily launch a mission that uses such content. They could have easily specified a text file, e.g. missionname.txt, that lists the required mods e.g. @ACE, @CUP and should be provided by the author with each mission. Then the launcher could show all installed/subscribed missions with their description and when one is selected,  launch A3 with the required mods.

 

Automatic mod downloading would be ideal but even if that's more complicated to implement and for now we still have to manually download mods, at least this would allow us to easily launch a mission without having to first check which mods are required and manually creating a launcher profile for each mission. I've subscribed to loads of great looking missions but never played any of them, as when I have some free time I just want to play something, not spend time checking what mods are required and creating a profile to launch A3 with those mods (which I've probably already installed with PwS for online/MP games) and I'm sure many authors don't bother using mods in their missions as they know it will limit the number of people who play them, so BIS lack of attention to this issue is severely hindering the use of user-created content.

[chortles 263]

For me the problem with automatic mod downloading is "where's the cutoff?" That being said, the Launcher does support Steam Workshop mod dependencies between mods.

Part of the issue with implementing "show all installed/subscribed missions with their description and when one is selected, launch A3 with the required mods" however is that you'd still have to exit/restart the client every time you wanted to play a mission that didn't have the exact same dependencies, and unfortunately word-of-dev is that "our current mod loading/integration system is too deeply integrated in the engine to be changed at this moment", although there are some planned changes for "simplifying the process of joining modded multiplayer servers" which have been elaborated on.

[doveman 7]

For me the problem with automatic mod downloading is "where's the cutoff?" That being said, the Launcher does support Steam Workshop mod dependencies between mods.

Part of the issue with implementing "show all installed/subscribed missions with their description and when one is selected, launch A3 with the required mods" however is that you'd still have to exit/restart the client every time you wanted to play a mission that didn't have the exact same dependencies, and unfortunately word-of-dev is that "our current mod loading/integration system is too deeply integrated in the engine to be changed at this moment", although there are some planned changes for "simplifying the process of joining modded multiplayer servers."

We already have to exit A3 each time we want to play a different mission with different dependencies, so it's not like this would make anything worse but at least this would make it easier to play those missions. Ideally, as I suggested ages ago, the interface and the engine would be separated, so the latter isn't loaded until a mission is launched and is unloaded when the player ends a mission, so that the interface is free to launch the engine with the required mods. If that's too complicated however, the Launcher could at least serve as the interface part and I think it would be fairly easy to make the Launcher launch A3 directly into the mission rather than the main menu.

 

I got given that excuse/explanation about it being too deeply integrated to change when I requested this functionality for A2 and was told it would be looked at for A3 but unfortunately that opportunity was missed.

 

What do you mean "where's the cutoff?" for automatic mod downloading? We're only asking for A3 mods to be automatically downloaded and there's several sources that could be used (Workshop, Six Network, maybe Armaholic).

[chortles 263]

We already have to exit A3 each time we want to play a different mission with different dependencies, so it's not like this would make anything worse but at least this would make it easier to play those missions.

Re: "where's the cutoff" I was thinking of automated mod downloading when connecting to a MP server but for what you described (which seems to be SP) I believe that the current Launcher functionality achieves the key part of detecting/one-click subscribing of dependencies so long as they're on Steam Workshop (I am not aware of any dev intent to support this for anywhere else) though not what you seem to be desiring which is per-mission automated selection of mods, assuming that they're already downloaded.

I got given that excuse/explanation about it being too deeply integrated to change when I requested this functionality for A2 and was told it would be looked at for A3 but unfortunately that opportunity was missed.

As per the link, they did look into it for A3...

[doveman 7]

Re: "where's the cutoff" I was thinking of automated mod downloading when connecting to a MP server but for what you described (which seems to be SP) I believe that the current Launcher functionality achieves the key part of detecting/one-click subscribing of dependencies so long as they're on Steam Workshop (I am not aware of any dev intent to support this for anywhere else) though not what you seem to be desiring which is per-mission automated selection of mods, assuming that they're already downloaded.

As per the link, they did look into it for A3...

As the Launcher doesn't list the installed/subscribed missions, "the key part of detecting/one-click subscribing of dependencies" doesn't seem to help in terms of SP, as there's no way to select a mission and have the Launcher identify the dependencies for a SP mission.