180 turn animation for AI

[sic-disaster 311]

So we all know the AI in previous ArmA's and old OFP sucked dramatically in CQB distances.

In ArmA 2 they do know how to take cover properly most of the time. I see them standing on corners of buildings leaning around them, taking cover behind streetlamps, etc.

From what i see, their handicap however is the way in which they have to turn around. Their turn speed is just pathetic, and this is how the enemy basically shoots itself in the foot, metaphorically speaking.

By now they know how to move around in CQB and how to take cover properly (though improvements are always welcome BIS! ;)), but i think their ability to move is hampered by the animations.

Now we have heard that the animations are being reworked completely, and this might be a thing of the past. We will have to wait and see.

In the meantime, i have a suggestion: adding a new animation that turns the AI around 180 degrees, to make them a bit faster and thus deadlier in CQB.

My idea of how such an anim would look is kind of like this:

The AI notices a threat behind him, and he looks over his shoulder, but follows his head movement with his rifle, lowering it quickly down and up the other side, the rest of the body following this movement.

His feet could remain static, fixed in position, making it kind of a pirouette movement.

(ever notice how the current AI seems to 'sidestep' around to make his turn? Same thing as the player models do, but thanks to our mouses we can do it faster and make it hardly noticeable. Just move the mouse slowly from left to right or right to left in third person view, you'll see what i mean)

Kind of like a mix of the guys in this video around 2:00

and me in this video around 0:55, only i'm doing it sideways (ofcourse i have almost no tactical training at all, i only joined the army for a short bit before opting out in search of different adventure (like, the kind where i dont have to shoot people irl, i'd much rather keep that virtual))

And while i'm on the subject of AI movement in CQB, it would be really, really nice if there was some kind of restriction on going prone in CQB.

Sometimes when AI spot you now, they will go prone, and even in the wrong direction, so they take even more time to turn around. Ofcourse, they are long dead before they ever get you in their sights this way.

I think my 180 degree turn animation suggestion could go a long way in fixing this, because the AI doesnt have to turn around 'sidestepping' as they do now, but do it in 1 quick movement instead of several.

But going prone is a severely hindering problem too, and needs to be fixed. Perhaps a general disability for the AI to go prone in cities, and only doing it in the countryside where it would actually be useful?

Another point would be making the AI WALK instead of jog or run while he suspects enemy soldiers in his near vicinity.

Players will generally be ready for an enemy encounter while in CQB, while the enemy runs around corners and make easy kills that way.

[froggyluv 2136]

Of course I agree with this. Pretty sure solus (SLX Mod) had a blended turn transition so that AI seemed to rotate much easier.

I also wonder if the knowsabout takes into consideration range of enemy thereby adjusting animation/reaction appropriately. Close range, imminent threat overides a known enemy some meters away etc...

[.Taffy 10]

Some good ideas, definately something to be looked at for improving CQB.

[sic-disaster 311]

Glad you agree, hehe.

While on the subject of animations, i think the walking animation could do with a change too, though this would be merely cosmetical.

I think the way soldiers hold their rifle while walking or standing still is kind of off.

To me it seems like they are like in a 90 degree angle to the body, kind of like in an reversed L-shape when looked at from above. Afaik soldiers arent trained to hold their weapons like this, at least i wasnt in my brief period of army training.

I was told to basically hold my rifle 'across the chest' when aiming: with toes pointing forward, the rifle would be pointed to the left of your body, making for a more natural pose (your left arm doesnt have to cross in front of your body, but can be outstretched to the left, while your cheek can be rested on the stock of the rifle more easily for aiming).

For the best example of what i mean i think we could look at the original Ghost Recon, as i recall the enemy soldiers holding their weapons as i described above, and while moving they were kind of sidestepping forward.

Looks to me as far more convincing then ArmA 2's current animations.

I cant seem to find a proper picture or video of them though, so if someone could help me out here? ^^

Anyways, i think ArmA 2's walking animation while holding a weapon is looking kind of awkward.

[chris64 0]

excellent idea. running behind an enemy and watching them slowly turn around like an old man almost made me feel sorry for them.

[raynor 0]

Glad you agree, hehe.

While on the subject of animations, i think the walking animation could do with a change too, though this would be merely cosmetical.

I think the way soldiers hold their rifle while walking or standing still is kind of off.

To me it seems like they are like in a 90 degree angle to the body, kind of like in an reversed L-shape when looked at from above. Afaik soldiers arent trained to hold their weapons like this, at least i wasnt in my brief period of army training.

I was told to basically hold my rifle 'across the chest' when aiming: with toes pointing forward, the rifle would be pointed to the left of your body, making for a more natural pose (your left arm doesnt have to cross in front of your body, but can be outstretched to the left, while your cheek can be rested on the stock of the rifle more easily for aiming).

For the best example of what i mean i think we could look at the original Ghost Recon, as i recall the enemy soldiers holding their weapons as i described above, and while moving they were kind of sidestepping forward.

Looks to me as far more convincing then ArmA 2's current animations.

I cant seem to find a proper picture or video of them though, so if someone could help me out here? ^^

Anyways, i think ArmA 2's walking animation while holding a weapon is looking kind of awkward.

The bladed stance is good for accuracy though if you are wearing body armor + plates if you get shot it is much better to give your armor a chance to do its job and save you from having a round tumbling around in your body.

What the more modern "squared" stance you can engage targets to your weak/support side more quickly without changing your footing and you don't suffer as much from losing your ability to engage accurately if you decide to engage during a mag transfer.

Edited June 10, 2011 by Raynor
Redundant crap removed and more useful crap introduced

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

Do a 720 instead. ;)

8pNOxynC1Dc

[KorpeN 0]

Do a 720 instead. ;)

8pNOxynC1Dc

Best animations ever

[chris64 0]

Do a 720 instead. ;)

8pNOxynC1Dc

God those animations are so goood. Cannot wait for this and arma 3, finally two reasons to upgrade my pc! (and RO2 of course)

[maturin 12]

It's an interesting idea, but that's not really the core problem. You can make the AI turn faster and increase their reflexes in CQB all you want, but it won't be useful if they are pointing the wrong way all the time.

Right now they are optimized to realistically detect and engage targets at medium ranges, tracking them down behind cover if they run out of sight, and taking their time to aim properly.

This system is what sabotages their CQB performance. Every time a nearby threat runs out of sight, they credulously predict their new position, often leading to the belief that the enemy is running magically through the air or sprinting through entire buildings. Arma 2 missions with the proper knowsabout scripts show this behavior in action. They end up with their backs turned all the time.

Getting them to kneel or shoot instead of going prone is a comparatively minor tweak.

[roberthammer 582]

In that BF3 video - you can notice the lacking M16 Bolt animation :p

[sniper pilot 36]

Do a 720 instead. ;)

8pNOxynC1Dc

Yeah BIS if you can make the animations look like that, then OMG would make the best game be impossibly better!

[KorpeN 0]

Awesome. Super post. Maybe someday your dream will come true and you can post your ideas wherever you want.

Stop pissing everyone off and post your already-mentioned suggestion in the already-mentioned suggestion thread.

The rules don't change, people just don't fucking read them.

ohhaipromotiontomodkthxbai

Your thread is in problem.

[St. Jimmy 272]

I just got owned two days ago by AI. I tried to sneak near him without beign detected to plant a satchel at the radiotower and I said to my friend to shoot the AI if he detects me but AI turned 180 and shot me before I or my friend could even react. That turn and shot happened maybe under 0.1s.

[Tobie 10]

oh yeah battlefield 3 will be a great competitor to arma 3^^ it has got much better graphics, effects and details... everything is much more detailed. but i will prefer arma though :P

[saltatormortis 12]

the problem with the games is that a soldier know where the turn ends..

then he lower the weapon and raise the weapon at the end of the turn to make a short and the short as possible.

you cant make a game like RL calse the pc never knows what you realy want...

[froggyluv 2136]

It's an interesting idea, but that's not really the core problem. You can make the AI turn faster and increase their reflexes in CQB all you want, but it won't be useful if they are pointing the wrong way all the time.

Right now they are optimized to realistically detect and engage targets at medium ranges, tracking them down behind cover if they run out of sight, and taking their time to aim properly.

This system is what sabotages their CQB performance. Every time a nearby threat runs out of sight, they credulously predict their new position, often leading to the belief that the enemy is running magically through the air or sprinting through entire buildings. Arma 2 missions with the proper knowsabout scripts show this behavior in action. They end up with their backs turned all the time.

Getting them to kneel or shoot instead of going prone is a comparatively minor tweak.

Thats why we we need a new parameter: KnowsAboutImminent :D

Would take priority over other Knowsaboots as would in RL.