They better have female soldiers...

[onlyrazor 11]

I remember those chicks from Mercenaries :D

Good times.

Mercenaries was a good example of gender equality - women and men would receive and/or deal out equal punishment. Also, portable nuke launchers.

[antoineflemming 14]

@Evil_Echo: Is the South Korean military in ArmA3? ... No, didn't think so. ArmA been about the U.S. when you've been playing as the U.S. for just about ALL of the OFP/ArmA games. And, then there's the UK. Still no female SF. Since when has ArmA been about South Korea? Never, as I thought. I'm not saying there shouldn't be females that have the same animations and can carry weapons just like male characters, just that your anti-US argument has no bearing and is pointless. It doesn't support your argument that there should be female soldiers in ArmA3.

That said, whether or not BIS adds female soldier characters isn't really that important to me. It's not like its a game breaker. Most shooters anyway don't have female soldier characters. So it's not like you're going to go run to another game that offers them AND is better than ArmA3. IF BIS opens up to adding female soldier characters, they could simply exclude them from the campaign.

[[evo] dan 79]

I thought Women were allowed into the SAS support group? Maybe in the armaverse they become a frontline unit due to their experience being needed due to loss/high demand?

I know in the British army women are allowed to take support roles such as medics (one won a comendation from the queen for her actions in Afghanistan) and are also aboard ships. And since this is NATO and not just the UK/US Women do serve in frontline roles, however mostly either in the medical sense, or aboard warships (and I think the RAF does have female pilots)

[antoineflemming 14]

Dan;2157074']I thought Women were allowed into the SAS support group? Maybe in the armaverse they become a frontline unit due to their experience being needed due to loss/high demand?

I know in the British army women are allowed to take support roles such as medics (one won a comendation from the queen for her actions in Afghanistan) and are also aboard ships. And since this is NATO and not just the UK/US Women do serve in frontline roles' date=' however mostly either in the medical sense, or aboard warships (and I think the RAF does have female pilots)[/quote']

Well, if BIS adds female characters, then they can add them in the capacities mentioned, and can just exclude them from the campaign if BIS doesn't want them there. But this shouldn't be a game-breaking issue nor an issue that makes someone NOT buy ArmA3. Seriously, this same debate goes on in the BF, COD, and GR communities. None of those developers (IW/Treyarch, DICE, Red Storm) have decided to include female soldier characters. So anyone who decides to rage quit the ArmA series over this, good luck finding a good, current game that includes female characters.

On one point though, it is interesting that a lot of the old games DID include females though: RS series, GR series, DF series All included female playable characters.

[ProfTournesol 956]

I hope people in 2035 will be less narrow-minded.

[Panda_pl 0]

@antoineflemming

South Korean society is very, very conservative about gender roles. They seem patriarchal no matter how you look at them.

I think Evil_Echo just meant to point out that times are - indeed - changing and it catches us by surprise.

23 years into the future US Army might eventually catch up to S Korean, right?

Edited May 26, 2012 by Panda_pl
algerbra

[antoineflemming 14]

@antoineflemming

South Korean society is very, very conservative about gender roles. They seem patriarchal no matter how you look at them.

I think Evil_Echo just meant to point out that times are - indeed - changing and it catches us by surprise.

23 years into the future US Army might eventually catch up to S Korean, right?

Yeah, I see what you're saying. Chances are, the US Marines at least will have females in infantry roles. They've already opened up Infantry schools to women. My only point is that you can't use one nation to explain the possibility of another nation doing something. Israel has women in combat roles. Doesn't mean that the U.S. will do it because Israel does it. That's all. Saying that South Korea has female SF doesn't add anything to the discussion, because as far as I know South Korea's military won't be present in ArmA3.

@ProfTournesol: It's not a narrow-minded statement. It's a statement of fact. Currently, neither the U.S. nor the UK (the only revealed NATO members in ArmA3) have female infantry soldiers. That is a fact. And, if BIS doesn't want to add female soldier characters, then that's their prerogative.

My "official" position on this issue is that if BIS adds it, then great. If they don't, then they don't. It'd be nice if they simply made female characters be able to use weapons and have the same animations as male characters. They could do that while not making female military units. But, if they don't do that, then they don't do it. IMO it's not a game-breaking omission.

[nodunit 397]

Well, if BIS adds female characters, then they can add them in the capacities mentioned, and can just exclude them from the campaign if BIS doesn't want them there. But this shouldn't be a game-breaking issue nor an issue that makes someone NOT buy ArmA3. Seriously, this same debate goes on in the BF, COD, and GR communities. None of those developers (IW/Treyarch, DICE, Red Storm) have decided to include female soldier characters. So anyone who decides to rage quit the ArmA series over this, good luck finding a good, current game that includes female characters.

On one point though, it is interesting that a lot of the old games DID include females though: RS series, GR series, DF series All included female playable characters.

They also don't include playable female characters in the game either (talking about the new ones). Whereas in A3 we've seen a women in a bikini. It's a bit near sighted to be be able to shoot them but not give them the ability to shoot back, when civilian males are just as capable.

How about pushing this military stuff aside and focusing on the simple that that the characters exist, and do male civilians, yet only one of them is capable of carrying weapons and using equipment. When you look at it from a mechanic example it makes no sense because it limits opportunities. It's kind of...bull shit.

[IAshford 1]

I honestly don't understand why they couldnt use guns in arma2. I mean, unless they had a whole new skeleton, I don't see why they'd need to use a whole different animation set. But even if they did have a seperate skeleton, why would they? Female characters in most games have been using male/gender nuetral skeletons since the dawn of gaming, only in some cases the females have custom run and walk animations, but everything else is the same.

[Black Cat 10]

Israel has women in combat roles.

Then maybe Iran should have women in combat roles :rolleyes: The ironic thing is, they do.

[-GR-Operative 10]

The norwegian army/defence have had judicial equality of men and women since _1984_.

Cool, so man don't need get their military haircut anymore? Or worse, do woman have to get the same haircut? :P

Edited May 27, 2012 by [GR]Operative
thinking a little more, "shave" is not the right word :P

[max power 21]

@Evil_Echo: Is the South Korean military in ArmA3? ... No, didn't think so.

I think that's missing the point. Many arguments about females in videogame combat roles are based off of the alleged inability of females to serve as combat troops. I believe evil echo was debunking that particular argument, citing that there are not only combat units, but special forces units, that include females or are female exclusive.

---------- Post added at 19:45 ---------- Previous post was at 19:43 ----------

Operative;2157333']Cool' date=' so man don't need get their military haircut anymore? Or worse, do woman have to get the same haircut? :P[/quote']

I think gender equality is not the same as gender equivalency. Females have regulations for their dress and hair, just like the men do. This does not mean that males are females and females are males.

Edited May 27, 2012 by Max Power

[rye1 21]

More importantly Max: for female soldiers in a combat role in a FUTURISTIC game depicting a HUGE war between big military members of our world.

[antoineflemming 14]

I think that's missing the point. Many arguments about females in videogame combat roles are based off of the alleged inability of females to serve as combat troops. I believe evil echo was debunking that particular argument, citing that there are not only combat units, but special forces units, that include females or are female exclusive.

---------- Post added at 19:45 ---------- Previous post was at 19:43 ----------

I think gender equality is not the same as gender equivalency. Females have regulations for their dress and hair, just like the men do. This does not mean that males are females and females are males.

Well, just like you can't use the argument of "no military has female infantry" to say that games shouldn't have females, you can't use the argument of "X country has female infantry so Y game, centered around Z country/ies, should have female infantry". That was my point of the argument. In the context of ArmA3, at least for the BLUFOR side, neither the U.S. or U.K. currently have female infantry soldiers. BIS can speculate on whether that changes or not, but so far there's no indication that they are including female infantry, which suggests that they are going with the status quo of the two nations' militaries. As far as civilians go, in most cases, in most warzones, the women don't go around picking up guns and firing them anyway. It's the men who do so. Look at any major conflict/crisis/warzone, and that's what you'll see. I think BIS should give women ingame the ability to pick up rifles, because in real life a woman can pick up a rifle, but that BIS shouldn't add any female units that have weapons in their loadouts, unless they add some special MP unit or something (which I doubt). BUT, if BIS doesn't, then oh well, it's just not in the game. Maybe this is the most important thing that makes a game great to some people, but IMO, it's not something that should keep someone away from ArmA3. There are more important features in ArmA3 than whether or not the game includes female soldier characters.

[max power 21]

Yeah, like I indicated, that was not the point of his post, to say that women should or shouldn't be in some army. He was simply saying that they are, so the argument that they can't be is not valid.

[antoineflemming 14]

Yeah, like I indicated, that was not the point of his post, to say that women should or shouldn't be in some army. He was simply saying that they are, so the argument that they can't be is not valid.

Oh, I got that. That's not the point of what I'm saying :p . I'm just saying the argument goes both ways. That's all. I think a simple thing for BIS to do would be to just give male and female characters the same animations. I mean, it wouldn't offend any female player if the female characters walked more like men, would it? :p An even more simple thing would be to basically have the female characters be male characters with a female voice and female body. Use the male characters as a base for the female characters. So that then they can fully interact with weapons like male characters can.

[max power 21]

Oh, I got that. That's not the point of what I'm saying :p . I'm just saying the argument goes both ways. That's all. I think a simple thing for BIS to do would be to just give male and female characters the same animations. I mean, it wouldn't offend any female player if the female characters walked more like men, would it? :p

To be honest, I don't really see why it's necessary to provide a bullet proof argument either way to decide whether or not women should be represented in the army of some videogame. I would like to see it in some context just to provide more character differentiation / contrast. That's really the crux of the issue for me- I would just like to see more difference between different characters. I would like to see more variations in size and BMI and even in animations regardless of sex. If there's a woman there, it would provide an interesting context for a back story, especially if it was established that she is from a non-combat or non-infantry troop, like the hind pilot in Eagle Wing. That story would also work for a male, I guess.

Women are in armies, and they are in combat roles. Even if they weren't, if they were in combat in the campaign, it wouldn't bother me one iota. If they did have them in, it would be nice to see some differences in model and animation to increase the differentiation between characters.

[antoineflemming 14]

To be honest, I don't really see why it's necessary to provide a bullet proof argument either way to decide whether or not women should be represented in the army of some videogame. I would like to see it in some context just to provide more character differentiation / contrast. That's really the crux of the issue for me- I would just like to see more difference between different characters. I would like to see more variations in size and BMI and even in animations regardless of sex. If there's a woman there, it would provide an interesting context for a back story, especially if it was established that she is from a non-combat or non-infantry troop, like the hind pilot in Eagle Wing. That story would also work for a male, I guess.

Women are in armies, and they are in combat roles. Even if they weren't, if they were in combat in the campaign, it wouldn't bother me one iota. If they did have them in, it would be nice to see some differences in model and animation to increase the differentiation between characters.

Good point.

[sapped 10]

Well, just like you can't use the argument of "no military has female infantry" to say that games shouldn't have females, you can't use the argument of "X country has female infantry so Y game, centered around Z country/ies, should have female infantry". That was my point of the argument. In the context of ArmA3, at least for the BLUFOR side, neither the U.S. or U.K. currently have female infantry soldiers. BIS can speculate on whether that changes or not, but so far there's no indication that they are including female infantry, which suggests that they are going with the status quo of the two nations' militaries. As far as civilians go, in most cases, in most warzones, the women don't go around picking up guns and firing them anyway. It's the men who do so. Look at any major conflict/crisis/warzone, and that's what you'll see. I think BIS should give women ingame the ability to pick up rifles, because in real life a woman can pick up a rifle, but that BIS shouldn't add any female units that have weapons in their loadouts, unless they add some special MP unit or something (which I doubt). BUT, if BIS doesn't, then oh well, it's just not in the game. Maybe this is the most important thing that makes a game great to some people, but IMO, it's not something that should keep someone away from ArmA3. There are more important features in ArmA3 than whether or not the game includes female soldier characters.

Edited May 27, 2012 by sapped

[antoineflemming 14]

http://mysynonym.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/PERS_Zalkovsky_Iraq_lg.jpg

http://www.joesautobody.com/liberation4.jpg

NOT infantry. Infantry is NOT synonymous to holding a rifle.

Since you just want to bring up the issue of American, British women currently serving in infantry roles:

UK Ministry of Defense's policy on women in infantry roles: http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/FactSheets/PersonnelFactsheets/WomenInTheArmedForces.htm

Here is just one example of U.S. women not allowed to serve in infantry roles: http://www.goarmy.com/careers-and-jobs/browse-career-and-job-categories/combat/infantryman-11b.html

As I said, neither the U.S. nor the UK militaries allow women in infantry roles. That's not up for debate here. Everyone here who knows a little something about Western militaries knows that this is true.

EDIT: HOWEVER, those pics provide enough justification for why female characters should be able to carry weapons. At the very least, there should be female pilots, because, pretty sure women are allowed to fly combat missions in just about every Western military.

Edited May 27, 2012 by antoineflemming

[max power 21]

Zalkovsky there is in the 101st Screamin' Eagles Airborne division. They do have support battalions in the 101st. I wonder what her job is. Too bad we can't (or I can't) identify her battalion.

[scarecrow398 43]

Operative;2157333']Cool' date=' so man don't need get their military haircut anymore? Or worse, do woman have to get the same haircut? :P[/quote']

For the australian military anyway the policy is cleen and tapered off the ears for men and cleen and neat in a bun or pony tail.

[Vespa 1]

So I heard there is new, fully combat-capable female character in DayZ mod.

Personally I'm not a fan of guys using female avatars. In games which allow this, there is quite big percentage of such players..

Wondering how it will turn out in DayZ.

[max power 21]

Yeah, there are a couple such addons around. They are based on the male skeleton, though, of course.

[SpecOp9 0]

Let the nude mods COMMENCE!!!