They better have female soldiers...

[Darkhorse 1-6 16]

I don't look at women in the military any different than I do men. They want to serve their country, it has nothing to do with me. In the end I think you're full of shit Operative. Let's examine the situation you put forward.

Convoy attacked, wounded everywhere, etc. etc.

These are just some of the things that could factor into which person you save.

• How well you know either of them, if at all
  
• How badly they are wounded. (eg: If the women has a large piece of shrapnel sticking out of her chest/stomach she's probably going to die anyways and vice versa)
  
• What rank each person is.
  
• What the situation is regarding the state of the convoy, how hard you're being attacked, etc.
  
• How hard it would be to drag each person out of the vehicle.
  

I'm just you're average "army brat", but even I know it depends more on shit like that than the sex of the wounded person. The way you say it you seem to believe that every single time in that situation the result is automatically "Take female leave male". You really need to pull your head out of your ass man. Hell, even America's Army players know more about prioritizing wounded than you do.

*Edit*

Razor, I can't tell if you're trolling or not. Fell out of my chair reading your post either way. :D

Edited November 3, 2011 by Darkhorse 1-6

[The Hebrew Hammer 10]

Just no for fucks sake, argue all you'd like. The infantry is not for women. If a gay guy can roll with the punches and isn't a fag about it, more power to him. Physically women cannot do what men do, even the non-hackers of the infantry have the potential to improve. It is a dirty and nasty job, that involves carrying your hundred pound pack, killing people, and living in a hole for months at a time.

Edited November 3, 2011 by The Hebrew Hammer

[bradp191 10]

Hygiene facilities available in a combat environment are also not adequate for females. They'd be at huge risk for infection.

Reason given by SgtMaj Kent.

[pathetic_berserker 4]

Operative;2050099']You understood what I said and everyone also did. Stop flame baiting please..

??? How is disagreeing with you flamebaiting. Or is this your way of flippantly dismissing any argument you cant successfully defend against?

The optimum course would be to save development time and time that would ordinarily be wasted on defending themselves from crazed feminists by not doing anything about the women. At all.

Why do they neeed to defend themselves.? They cant they just ignore them and get on with what they should be doing? Cant see any reson for a BIS employee to get up from his/her desk just because some hag writes something stupid on some rag.

Just no for fucks sake' date=' argue all you'd like. The infantry is not for women. ...........[/quote']

Well I doubt that including or not including women shooters will ever save a fuck.... or it might, I suport women shooters and I get plenty...so draw your own conclusion but as to the rest ..Many women have have picked up weapons and sucessfully defended them selves over the ages, some in infantry, others as resistance fighters, fighterpilots, and armoured/service personel and as ancient warriors.

Arguing that ArmA3 (a game) shouldn't have female soldiers Because they aren't generaly as strong as men or have some other body function that you percieve makes life difficult, is like saying you cant cope with the idea that others have dealt with these difficulties for real.

[Darkhorse 1-6 16]

The thing is, women are already in combat environments.

Whether its EOD (Like Staff Sgt. Kimberly Voelz, killed in Baghdad after the IED detonated before she could disarm it),

Military Police (Like Pfc. Rachel Bosveld, who survived an ambush on a convoy but died in a mortar attack on the Baghdad police station),

Aviation (Like Capt. Kimberly Hampton, who was killed when her OH-58 came under attack as she was providing fire support and an "eye in the sky" for infantry in combat)

The list goes on and on. BIS doesn't have to portray women in an infantry unit, but come on guys, what's the big deal if BIS includes a female pilot, a female in uniform (with a patch from whatever non-infantry unit they dream up) a female medic, etc.? The whole point behind this thread is wanting to see female soldiers. It does not imply in any way shape or form that BIS should include female in an infantry role in their campaigns or missions. It doesn't imply that BIS should stick a female into an SAS or SBS or SEAL uniform, etc. All it asks is that some female soldiers be included in the game. They wouldn't have to be used in a combat role in the campaign, and to be honest if a user wants to make a mission with a female platoon/squad leader leading a raid on an Iranian military compound it's none of your fucking business. As long as they are included that's all that's needed. We don't need them in the campaign, just having them in the editor for mission makers to use is enough.

As for the arguments that even that shouldn't be allowed because people will make missions where you rape them, or massacre a group of female soldiers, etc. I say pull your heads out of your asses. There's missions in ArmA 2 and OA where you play a rapist/murder going around killing prostitutes. Having a female character (or characters) in a combat uniform with the ability to hold a gun won't make that situation worse, or better. It's still going to happen. Hell, there may even be missions where a woman is about to be raped, but just before it happens she slips a .45 out of her waistband and caps the guy in his knees. Every single argument against having a female model in A3 that's in uniform, and can actually drive vehicles and hold weapons, is flawed. All of your arguments are used for why women shouldn't be allowed in combat IN REAL LIFE. What you have to understand is that this isn't real life, it's the goddamn ArmAversum, and all of your arguments that don't recognize that are null and void.

[bradp191 10]

The thing is, women are already in combat environments.

Whether its EOD (Like Staff Sgt. Kimberly Voelz, killed in Baghdad after the IED detonated before she could disarm it),

Military Police (Like Pfc. Rachel Bosveld, who survived an ambush on a convoy but died in a mortar attack on the Baghdad police station),

Aviation (Like Capt. Kimberly Hampton, who was killed when her OH-58 came under attack as she was providing fire support and an "eye in the sky" for infantry in combat)

FET went back to Dwyer for one week a month. Draw your own conclusions from that.

That is, they returned to the regimental headquarters, which had showers, beds, real food, and the like. They were in the operating environment for no more that three weeks at a time.

Edited November 4, 2011 by bradp191

[pathetic_berserker 4]

Yeah but they were there.

My biggest problem with the argument against female combatants in the game is at the end of the day it does just one thing.

Limit us

[Darkhorse 1-6 16]

I'm not talking about FET, or Lionesses, I'm talking about women in normal military roles. Everything from supply units, to company commanders, to fighter pilots, even EOD. Normal soldiers.

The women I listed who died didn't die because they were in a FET, or because they were Lionesses, in fact none of them were were anything like that. They were normal soldiers, doing what they considered to be their duty to their country, to Iraq, to the world, who knows. One was an MP who died in a mortar attack, another died while supporting infantry engaged on the ground, and another trying to defuse a bomb. They were normal soldiers, not women attached to Delta, or SEALs, or Rangers. Normal goddamn soldiers.

Edited November 4, 2011 by Darkhorse 1-6

[bradp191 10]

Well if FET is getting rotated back because conditions are unsanitary for them, what is a unit with more females going to do? When women are all together, their cycles sync up. A unit made up of 20% females would be combat ineffective due to "cramps". Besides, the Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps said that women can't be grunts because their bodies just can't handle it. The authority has spoken.

I only heard of FET being in one firefight, and they started shooting toward the other Marines because they were scared and freaked out.

I think they should have females in the game. I just think you guys arguing that women are the same as men are ignoring biology.

Edited November 4, 2011 by bradp191

[ryguy 10]

They were in the operating environment for no more that three weeks at a time.

You mean like just about every soldier stationed in Iraq? You really find anything to cling to, right? As if someone spending 3 weeks in a combat zone means they won't be able to spend more time if necessary. Even troops on remote FOBs generally go back once a month.

[Darkhorse 1-6 16]

You mean like just about every soldier stationed in Iraq? You really find anything to cling to, right? As if someone spending 3 weeks in a combat zone means they won't be able to spend more time if necessary. Even troops on remote FOBs generally go back once a month.

What's amusing about what he's clinging to is the fact he's talking about FET, or Female Engagement Teams. They get attached to Special Forces units, the guys who go out and slip into the local populace, trying to blend in and gather intel, or hit a target, etc. Of course they are only going to spend 3 weeks of a month in the combat zone. I'm sure that's standard operating procedure for most SF units when it's possible, because the longer your out there, the more it gets to you, the more people might become wary of them, not to mention every day they are out there the targets on their backs grow bigger.

Like Ryguy said, it doesn't mean they can't spend longer if necessary. Even the elite of the elite need to have some downtime back at base.

[bradp191 10]

You mean like just about every soldier stationed in Iraq?

Unlike me who spent 8 months living in Marja without running water. Stuff the snide remarks. Besides, what American has ever been stationed in Iraq? Last I checked, people were deployed there. I'm not "clinging" to anything. I'm talking about my own experiences. I don't appreciate you belittling my service.

[Darkhorse 1-6 16]

Well brad, if you believe they should have females in-game then you'll not see any more argument from me. I'm not naive enough to say that women are equal to men physically, but if they train right they can be just as capable as any other grunt. As far as female marines go, the few I've seen have looked more than capable of hauling around a loaded ruck, using a weapon, and generally kicking ass. Of course most of those were Drill Instructors :D

Oh, here's a quote for you.

They (women Marines) don't have a nickname, and they don't need one. They get their basic training in a Marine atmosphere, at a Marine post. They inherit the traditions of the Marines. They are Marines.

— General Thomas Holcomb, 17th CMC, (1936-1943)

Edited November 4, 2011 by Darkhorse 1-6

[pathetic_berserker 4]

I think they should have females in the game. I just think you guys arguing that women are the same as men are ignoring biology.

I don't think anyone is saying they are the same. I just want people to cut to the chase, stick to the topic and not cloud the topic with any 'the game doesn't need them coz they're different'

Of course they are different. And I would question their inclusion if the game wasn't so large or inclusive of so many areas of operation.

Point is as A2 is at the moment it is impossible to even construct a mission that has say a hollywood inspired story line with say a single female secret agent. And relying on community made solutions still only goes so far largely because BIS so completely locked out civis and females from being at all usefull.

So for the sake of a decent narative and furthering the cause of story telling they should be included. All the buddy buddy watch your macho chums back stuff is fine and certainly has its place, but it can get tiring for some who need a bit more motivation to play.

The sim stuff will still be there and uneffected so if you want to spend a few hrs reliving the 6-7 weeks you didn't see a toilet you should still be happy

[bradp191 10]

Well the thing about the Marine Corps is that there's the infantry, and then there's everyone else. Women are perfectly capable in the "everyone else" department. Most men couldn't even make it in the infantry. Certainly, there are some women who have the mental and spiritual capacity to be grunts. And they can maybe even train physically to carry a full combat load and keep up with us on patrols. However, they'd be the exception rather than the rule.

The sim stuff will still be there and uneffected so if you want to spend a few hrs reliving the 6-7 weeks you didn't see a toilet you should still be happy

It was 8 months, and I relive it almost every day.

Edited November 4, 2011 by bradp191

[Darkhorse 1-6 16]

Also, to everybody who says women shouldn't be allowed in combat/in the military, etc. I ask that you click this link and attempt to repeat that sentence.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d97/vader_fangirl/me/saraspictures014.jpg

:D

[pathetic_berserker 4]

It was 8 months, and I relive it almost every day.

I appologise if you think my coment is offensive. But at the end of the day we each walk our own path, and yours hasn't been the first comment based on extreme personal experience that feels a little out of context with the topic.

^@darkhorse, love the pic.

[spektre76 10]

......and they better come wearing aprons and thier own cooking utensils!

[rye1 22]

......and they better come wearing aprons and thier own cooking utensils!

Congratulations, you are the 1,000th poster of a sexist comment.

Your prize is in the mail!

[spektre76 10]

Congratulations, you are the 1,000th poster of a sexist comment./QUOTE]

I have never raised a hand to my wife or my children.

Crawl back into your politically correct Liberal hole and suck your thumb while you sit Indian style and rock in the corner. Grow some thicker skin and learn to take a joke once in a while.

Your prize is already here.....took me 6 minutes to make it for ya

Yes I'm sure even in AUS they have 'em there too..........

Edited November 4, 2011 by SPEKTRE76

[Cripsis 10]

Point is as A2 is at the moment it is impossible to even construct a mission that has say a hollywood inspired story line with say a single female secret agent.

All the buddy buddy watch your macho chums back stuff is fine and certainly has its place, but it can get tiring for some who need a bit more motivation to play.

You require female secret agents to inspire you to play ARMA?

Seriously? :391:

[pathetic_berserker 4]

Yes I'm sure even in AUS they have 'em there too..........

Whats funny about that most is that the Liberals of Aus are the right wing option.(And yes they are capable of sticking they're head in the proverbial to) And we pride ourselves on having an Apolitical military. So your political bent is irrelevant as long you point the gun in the right direction

You require female secret agents to inspire you to play ARMA?

Seriously? :391:

No not all that seriously, just a quick off the cuff example. Point is it can't be done and maybe after all these years of playing OFP,A1,A2 I'd be gratefull for the option.

Edited November 4, 2011 by Pathetic_Berserker

[rye1 22]

These are just some of the things that could factor into which person you save.

• How well you know either of them, if at all
  
• How badly they are wounded. (eg: If the women has a large piece of shrapnel sticking out of her chest/stomach she's probably going to die anyways and vice versa)
  
• What rank each person is.
  
• What the situation is regarding the state of the convoy, how hard you're being attacked, etc.
  
• How hard it would be to drag each person out of the vehicle.
  

So, multiple or mass casualties means you prioritize. Triage. That has little to do with gender.

[Haystack15 10]

Operative;2050099']

Most thing really change' date=' but the human moral commonly does not. People are sensitive about violence against woman and have been for some time.

[/quote']

The human moral is flawed between us all. So you midst well forget about hanging onto that rope.

Operative;2050099']

Call for backup' date=' takes him/her out of vehicle. Vehicle explodes. The one left dies.[/quote']

Hmm, Yea that sounds like war. People dieing, Oh well there's nothing I can do now but to either sit there and cry about him/her dieing or do what my training told me and continue doing my job.

Operative;2050099']

But we do everything we can to prevent a woman death. Period.

Well unfortunately' date='

You haven't done enough. Because I'm still hearing women and children are dieing. To mind you they don't even have a damn gun in there hands.

Try harder....

-------------------------------

I have never raised a hand to my wife or my children.

Crawl back into your politically correct Liberal hole and suck your thumb while you sit Indian style and rock in the corner. Grow some thicker skin and learn to take a joke once in a while.

You know what they say,

Sometimes its a good time to tell jokes, while at other times, It is not a good time. And when people get offended, You will make yourself look better if you just say sorry and move on instead of insulting them even further.

Or could it be that Rye's comment was another joke just like yours? And if it was, look at how you get offended.

Edited November 4, 2011 by Haystack15

[Darkhorse 1-6 16]

So, multiple or mass casualties means you prioritize. Triage. That has little to do with gender.

Exactly!