Adopt Valhalla or other C&H as the basic PvP form and set up some Official servers

[walker 0]

Hi all

A suggestion to BIS.

I made this suggestion to both Zaphod about Berzerk and later to those at Dao involved in Vallhala. That they aproach BIS to include their Capture and Hold PvP form as standard with vanila ArmA so that new players have a more understandable entry into the complexity of a game with unlimited game forms.

And that BIS could also set up some official servers to guide user into ArmA's complex MP world.

Concept

Provide BIS and ArmA III with a Multi Player launch platform in the form of a Valhalla like C&H.

The problem

Multi Player in ArmA is not performing to its optimum, this is because ArmA being perceived as a purely coop game and not as an open system capable of any Multi Player (MP) game form. This is turning off people who might buy ArmA, deterring some buyers of ArmA from being repeat customers and decreasing existing customer satisfaction.

Weakness in the current multi player offering in ArmA II.

A quick perusal of the MP section of the BIS forums will show three main weaknesses in the ArmA multi player offerings.

1)Numerous threads complaining how hard it is to play MP in ArmA

2)Multiple threads bemoaning the lack of Player v Player (PvP) and Team V Team (TvT) game forms.

3)Frequent complaints about the lack of an official ArmA game form and lack of direction compared to ArmA's competitors.

Weakness 1 Ease of entry

The first of these perceptions is a valid one and its causes are:

a)The standard multi player browser while being very customisable does not default to number of players with highest at the top; rather it defaults to ping. This is wrong and needs fixing! As the default view of new players is servers with no one on them. This is because the lowest pings are those that are network wise right next to the user i.e. client servers in the local geographical area and with those lowest client count. Thus they occupy all the top pages of servers in default view. This leads many people on initial view to wrongly assume that: no one is playing ArmA in multi player and they go no further.

b)Many servers run addons. These make it impossible for new players to join since they have to learn the somewhat complex concepts of addons and mods before they can play.

Weakness 2 Preconceptions

The second perception is down principally to peoples previous experience:

a)New players concepts of how to play MP are built on their experience of MP in games they have already played hence their asking for Death Match (DM) and Team Death Match (TDM) and Capture The Flag (CTF).

b)In fact each of these game forms exist in ArmA but those operating the servers run around like a headless chickens with little organisation pulling in different directions and or offering concepts that are old and stale and where ArmA just copies a game form that is the same as all it competitors, this just increases the comparisons to competitors offerings. And whether ArmA is better or worse than these games the negative comparisons are the ones that will be pursued as the owners of those concepts and ideas are psychologically invested in them. This is a cycle that needs to be broken.

Weakness 3 Leadership

Once a player gets on a server they do not know what they are doing. They are, as the saying goes “Crying out for leadership†lost in a wilderness of addons, new game forms and a free environment where anything can and does happen. This frightens them at deep level. Very few people are capable of or prepared to explore new environments. While the concept of ArmA being an open sandbox is easy for BIS veterans to understand that is not what 99% of gamers have experience of. In order to expand and survive BIS need to serve these customers with an entry level until more gamers “Get†the totally unheard of concept of freedom in a game.

The Solution.

To run official Valhalla like C&H server(s)

Valhalla

Valhalla is a user made game form, often found on public servers. Battles tend to last one hour and are fought over geographic location or zones such as towns or radio towers or airfields or other strategic objectives.

Popularity

Valhalla is already easily the most popular Player v Player (PvP) and Team V Team (TvT) game form in ArmA. It is fully capable of running 120 player missions on current ArmA. 60 player servers are common and often full.

Fully tested and already running!

Valhalla is a fully tested and already running game form and it would be simple to add the ability to include runing scoring statistics. This means minimal work to put out the product and it can be introduced in time for the ArmA III release.

Dealing with ArmA's MP weaknesses

A Valhalla is an ideal product to deal with ArmA's weaknesses as it is built on ArmA's strength of freedom.

1.Players in a Valhalla like C&H may roam freely around the map with no invisible borders

2.Players in a Valhalla like C&H Have the freedom take on any of the all arms roles from officer to medic to sniper to fire team leader to tank to air support to IFV to indirect fire to platoon.

3.Players are free to use anything in the environment from weapons, to buildings to vehicles

Negating Weakness 1 Ease of entry

1.Valhalla runs on vanilla ArmA II and would work the same in ArmA III. So no addons needs. Valhalla is simply join and play.

2.For new ArmA players, Valhalla eases their entry into what is for many new players is a very daunting game. They are presented with simple choose weapons, and spawn location interface, the objectives are laid out and scoring is simple capture and hold zones for lots of points, kill enemy for additional points.

3.There may be an argument for making three or so official servers sticky at the top of the browser. Say one for each major continent. More if required but start with three.

Negating Weakness 2 Preconceptions

Preconceptions are a strength to established products in a market place, they provide both a barrier to entry to new products and inbuilt training in the form of foreknowledge for any product; from games to cars.

You do not need to learn much when you drive a new car. The pedals and steering wheel are always in the same place, but when you buy a new car you expect new bells and whistles you expect your ego to be boosted by the idea of you getting something that is distinguished from the previous products and that is better than what went before.

You do not want to throw this baby out with bath water in presenting a new product, but you do want to distinguish your product from your competitors and then use that to penetrate into both their markets and new markets. Better still you want to move playing field to new preconceptions you create and can guard so as to exclude your competitors:

1.Breaking the cycle of DM, TDM and CTF being the only PvP game forms is primarily dealt with by giving people an easy to understand superior replacement. It has to mimic the previous forms so that learning it is easy but feel better so that people feel they are not just being sold the old stuff in new packaging.

2.By providing a new ArmA only PvP and TvT game form we reduce the ground on which to make a direct comparison with competitor products and create new ground which their technology can not operate on. Thus turning the preconception advantage of older products against those competitors to ArmA by shifting the ground over which ArmA and its competitors compete; to ArmA's favour. This then forces the competitors to play catchup.

Valhalla like C&H Works as both a PvP and TvT game form.

1)For PvP Valhalla can be dipped into and out of and thus fits in with the short periods of time some game players can devote to gaming. Its scoring method could be adapted to allow monitoring of single player achievement in league tables which many players think are important.

2)For TvT Valhalla

2.1.Is built on the concept of sides and can support up to three sides.

2.2.Has inbuilt team creation functions for fire teams.

2.3.Would be an easy form to run league or cup or challenge matches from.

Negating Weakness 3 Leadership

By providing official servers with an official game form BIS take on the role of leadership that those new to the community need. Valhalla like C&H Provides a base and safety net from which new ArmA players can explore the freedom ArmA offers in MP.

Advertising and marketing

Method

1.Official Server(s) act as another news item on which to base news articles and generate publicity.

2.Any official server acts as a rallying flag for the existing community and automatically acts as a method of raising the profile of ArmA III.

3.Future competitions and league results act as continuing news items on which to base news articles and generate publicity and maintain BIS's profile.

Branding

A brand name like Valhalla is an ideal branding name as it is a single word with with known connotations; that puts across concepts of battle and glory acting as an attractant to those who have played the shorter PvP game forms

Requirements

Implementation is relatively simple it is just a matter of BIS providing an official server(s) with ArmA III and a Valhalla like C&H installed

Software

ArmA III dedicated server.

Valhalla like C&H Mission pbo files

MY SQL for scoring

Physical

MP servers

A website server to hold league tables and run chalenge cup advertising

Personnel

People to act as Server administrators.

Some one to produce materials for competitions and act as contact point for media.

Kind Regards walker

[celery 8]

Lol. Didn't the maker of Valhalla make the mission's scripts unreadable? Really good way to get the developers of an open editing environment make a mission officially supported.

[Przemek_kondor 13]

The idea makes sense to me, but I would choose AAS which is less popular but it has better support (I would say proffesional support) it's not closed (what Celery mentioned) and it's... less brainless IMHO.

[dysta 10]

The simple meaning of "Easy-Learn-With-Fun-of-ARMA3-MP-Instruction-and-Survival-Manual-24/7" from your concept. ARMA does really lacks of learn-to-adapt sessions for every players no matter experienced with other FPS games or not. The adaption and practice is really necessary for every newcomers, in case they will have idea whey are they doing in multiplayer.

[celery 8]

Oh, and you probably haven't been keeping up with the times because CTF and DM are played only occasionally and TDM is pretty much non-existent in Arma 2. It's obvious that you hate those game modes because you think that people need to grow out of them, but the truth is that they're just rulesets how to win a competitive mission, and some people simply like them.

It's funny that you advocate a mission type where everyone is free to buy what they want with imbalanced prices and head off to capture any zone at all, effectively negating the effect that the player amount would have in a traditional CTF of AAS game.

Finally, Valhalla isn't C&H; it's sector control. In C&H you take flags and hold them, SC is the zone taking variant.

[.kju 3241]

Both Berzerk and Valhalla have questionable history and authors. Especially Valhalla.

Their code obscurity has a reason. BIF admins are aware of it.

Of course public server admins don't care about such "minor" details, yet BI has to.

It would be a very bad idea from BI to use this.

What is surprising that you walker don't care either.

Edited May 20, 2011 by .kju [PvPscene]

[walker 0]

Hi Celery

As I said Valhalla is popular but as I said the most important thing is that it easy to understand while it also makes use of the factors in ArmA that diferentiate ArmA from the mass of geographicaly limited TDM, CTF, and AAS corridor and shoebox shooters.

Eg the variety of weapon platforms and the freedom it gives.

Kind Regards walker

[Zipper5 74]

Their code obscurity has a reason. BIF admins are aware of it.

Say what?

[Avgeris 64]

Oh, and you probably haven't been keeping up with the times because CTF and DM are played only occasionally and TDM is pretty much non-existent in Arma 2. It's obvious that you hate those game modes because you think that people need to grow out of them, but the truth is that they're just rulesets how to win a competitive mission, and some people simply like them.

It's funny that you advocate a mission type where everyone is free to buy what they want with imbalanced prices and head off to capture any zone at all, effectively negating the effect that the player amount would have in a traditional CTF of AAS game.

Finally, Valhalla isn't C&H; it's sector control. In C&H you take flags and hold them, SC is the zone taking variant.

I couldn't agree more +1

plus the way this maps are played leave no room for clanwars

[.kju 3241]

@ Zipper5

Ask W0lle or Dwarden.

---------- Post added at 08:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:52 PM ----------

@ walker

Have you ever played AAS?

---------- Post added at 09:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:53 PM ----------

That said walker makes some fair points.

Valhalla is certainly no good idea as a base. Nor is any mission that goes for as high player

count as possible for many reasons. I think official servers is also not necessary.

What is are strong PvP game modes shipped with the game. OFP was very popular in PvP

and due to the issues since a1 has lot of its player base and potential customer base.

[SPC.Spets 21]

I dont like PvP in ArmA2, I preffer MP Coop. its because its almost imposible to see a "camper" or locate a sniper half a mile away, is really frustrating and boring to die over and over to respawn 10thousand miles away from objective. not to mention when someone takes a bradley with thermal vision, my god! I have played PvP AAS Mode many times, when both teams are using conventional weapons, no thermal, or armor vehicles, its fun, you can kill someone, you can do objectives, and some CQB/mid range firefights. I dont see any problem with the scenarios or the character movements in that case. Anyway, for scenarios should be no porblem to make a custom one.

[walker 0]

@ Zipper5

Ask W0lle or Dwarden.

---------- Post added at 08:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:52 PM ----------

@ walker

Have you ever played AAS?

---------- Post added at 09:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:53 PM ----------

That said walker makes some fair points.

Valhalla is certainly no good idea as a base. Nor is any mission that goes for as high player

count as possible for many reasons. I think official servers is also not necessary.

What is are strong PvP game modes shipped with the game. OFP was very popular in PvP

and due to the issues since a1 has lot of its player base and potential customer base.

Hi all

Yes I have played AAS it is too like the Shoe Box and Corridor games of ArmA's competitors it limits ArmA rather than building on ArmA's strengths.

ArmA needs to diferentiate it self from its old fashioned competitors by highlighting what it does that is different.

The most popular PvP form in ArmA is the C&H and it is perfectly amenable to leauges.

Valhalla is perfect for Team Play, comunities and Leagues. In fact it is already set up for teams.

I think official servers are key to breaking the market as it gives direction for new players, as I pointed out in the first post. It also places BIS finger on the pulse of the MP community so that it understands how it is working.

Kind Regards walker

[.kju 3241]

AAS is no Shoe Box and Corridor game mode walker.

It has small to large mission - even bigger scale as Berzerk and Valhalla.

Maybe you need to revise your research?

AAS Missions Overview [PvPscene]

[smookie 11]

Valhalla is perfect for Team Play, comunities and Leagues. In fact it is already set up for teams.

What?

[-DirTyDeeDs--Ziggy- 0]

For once, i have to support Walkers premise, that some PvP mission like he described come with the official vanilla release.

At the very least, it could potentially add another BIS mission template with which the community can work off of, and at best, create more interest from new or returning customers.

[gossamersolid 155]

Their code obscurity has a reason. BIF admins are aware of it.

I do not support mission devs that think their code is soooo good that they have gone out of their way to make it not readable for anybody else.

If you don't want your code read, don't release the mission... simple as that.

[.kju 3241]

It wasn't meant in a positive sense GossamerSolid ;)

[Przemek_kondor 13]

Doesn't Valhalla use Warfare's respawn dialog (which is open source)? So not releasing source is kind of illegal, right?

[Defunkt 431]

I do not support mission devs that think their code is soooo good that they have gone out of their way to make it not readable for anybody else.

If you don't want your code read, don't release the mission... simple as that.

You feel you're somehow entitled to stipulate conditions under which an original work may be released even though releasing it at all is of itself an act of generosity? That's a fairly repugnant attitude if you don't mind me saying.

Mind you if "support mission devs" means changing 5% of their mission before then releasing it as Gossamer's Valhalla I doubt the author will lose too much sleep over the lack thereof.

[gossamersolid 155]

It wasn't meant in a positive sense GossamerSolid ;)

I know, I was backing your post up with mine ;)

You feel you're somehow entitled to stipulate conditions under which an original work may be released even though releasing it at all is of itself an act of generosity? That's a fairly repugnant attitude if you don't mind me saying.

Mind you if "support mission devs" means changing 5% of their mission before then releasing it as Gossamer's Valhalla I doubt the author will lose too much sleep over the lack thereof.

I don't mind you saying that, we're all entitled to our own opinions right? Well my opinion is that what they did is rather close minded in such an open minded community.

It's like they went out of their way to add what you could compare to DRM for a game.

A lot of developers in this community have learned off of other people, so I don't see why they would want to close everything, hell they probably learned some stuff by looking at other people's code.

I'm not sure if the second area of your post was meant to be as rude as it looks from here, but I'll just ignore it as I don't really care what you think about my work... a lot of people seem to like it.

[nkenny 1051]

Its a large scale PvP mission that aims to succeed. The burden of evidence lays with the accuser not the accused.

Obscuring the code:

- May combat cheaters & abuse

- Keeps the code unique and community unifed.

-k

[minimalaco 30]

For pvp is project reality.

[gossamersolid 155]

Its a large scale PvP mission that aims to succeed. The burden of evidence lays with the accuser not the accused.

Obscuring the code:

- May combat cheaters & abuse

- Keeps the code unique and community unifed.

-k

Obscuring the code will do NOTHING AT ALL to combat cheaters... You realize that the script kiddies know SQF as well and can run code on the fly ingame, it has nothing to do with the mission at all.

Back to my original point again, if you don't want your code used by the community or even looked at by the community and want it be to unified in your own community, then why are you bothering to release it.

[celery 8]

You feel you're somehow entitled to stipulate conditions under which an original work may be released even though releasing it at all is of itself an act of generosity? That's a fairly repugnant attitude if you don't mind me saying.

Making the effort to rename variables and files into an unreadable mess is a questionable and highly arrogant practice, there's no way around it. It is and should be condemned. The makers of Valhalla learned their scripting by looking at other missions and using other people's scripts. There would be no Valhalla if everyone was such a douche prior to it.

[pathetic_berserker 4]

BIS pvp servers, like the idea

But why bother suggesting a specific pvp mission at the exclusion of others? Especialy one as flawed as Valhalla. Surely you would expect them (BIS) to come up with something on their own?