The War Between the States - An American Civil War Mod

[USMCLuke 10]

It's probably not StubbleHopper's fault. As the OP mentions, we began attempting to create this mod in the M&B Warband engine but at the time the community was... less than supportive, even though we were fairly well organized and had the project outlined almost entirely. Our focus was also on historical accuracy with little to no exceptions where possible. There were a number of reasons we decided to bring our attempt over to the ArmA 2 community, but mainly because of the capabilities of the engine. We wanted the focus to be on the realistic firearm and artillery components with melee as the afterthought as opposed to the other way around with Warband's engine. Our own links are probably what has confused the search engines since the two games are tied to this mod, and we retained the name.

StubbleHopper's attempt in the Warband engine was just better timed I guess, as his reception was entirely different than the one we encountered there. He has received a lot of support in the way of materials to use where we received only snide remarks. Had we the same reception we might not have converted over, but I still think the ArmA 2 engine offers the most possibilities for us with this mod. Getting past the horses/cavalry issues and tackling melee will be two of our greatest challenges, though if we can do these things, the mod will be pretty epic, not to mention groundbreaking as there are very few Civil War mods out there in any engine that truly submerse you into the atmosphere of the era in such a way, and maintain historical accuracy along the way.

The main thing we lacked there is what we lack here, quality textured models. If we can get past that stopping point, we can actually begin to make some headway on this mod.

Edited July 25, 2011 by USMCLuke

[USMCLuke 10]

Sorry for double-posting. Since more people are apparently reading this thread lately, I will post a teaser for you all. It is a rough outline of a MP mission scenario I had thought up quite a while back when we first decided to create this mod in the ArmA 2 engine.

So, since the move to ArmA 2, my head is flooded with ideas about things we can do/try to do in this setting. And since I know my way around ArmA 2 modding a bit better, I can also start to plan things I'm relatively certain are feasible.

Here's my idea for the initial multiplayer mission. Much of this is subject to change once the rubber meets the road, however, I'd like to get some of these ideas into writing so I don't lose track of them, and also to give you an idea of what you might be able to expect.

You'll start out by joining a hosted server and choosing your side (USA or CSA), and then your squad slot (rank and role). The rank of each slot will be purely for uniform fluff and will be how you select specific officer uniforms to match special units, i.e. Louisiana Tigers, Iron Brigade, etc. The role will determine which units you can command.

You'll spawn into a semi-fortified camp where aside from some fluff NPCs and guards, there will be several 1st Sergeant NPCs in various locations loitering around tents and campfires with various troops of the unit to which each belongs idling about nearby to give you an idea of their look and basic equipment. You'll speak with the 1st Sergeant and go into a brief dialogue about the unit, their capabilities, and finally he'll ask you if you've been assigned as the new Company Commander. In this way you can browse the available commands for your role such as infantry, cavalry*, and artillery. If you don't meet the role requirement, he'll respectfully tell you to piss off. If you do meet the role requirement and you accept command of that unit (and in some instances pay an equipment "provisioning fee" for the more elite units), the 1st Sergeant will "muster" your troops for you and they will spawn nearby in formation and ready to march on your command. The exact size of the unit is to be determined and will vary depending on type and role, but we're going to simply refer to them as your Company. If your Company is below full strength you can get replacements at any time by speaking with your Company 1st Sergeant again. You will have to pay a fee again to fill elite units up to full strength.

You will also be able to visit the Quartermaster Sergeant in camp and purchase various upgraded personal equipment such as binoculars, better weapons, etc. There will also be an option here to purchase rearmament for your Company.

Also in the camp there will be a field hospital where you will be able to talk to the medics about healing yourself and surviving members of your Company.

Once you've got your Company, march them out to the strategic objectives placed around the map and capture them for your side, harass enemy supply lines, possibly complete optional side missions, or get with your teammates to organize a large-scale pitched battle with the various units and troops all brought to bear. You obtain currency by capturing strategic objectives and inflicting losses on the enemy to continue your efforts. When all objectives are captured, one side is declared the victor, and the mission restarts. We may include other winning objectives as well that can be toggled such as point attrition, etc. We will try to offer scaling sizes from just a few objectives that can be captured in an hour or less, to enough objectives to keep you busy for several hours.

Purely theoretically speaking, large-scale battles could incorporate nearly 1600 troops with 64 players on a server (25 man companies), though I highly doubt this is possible because of resource limitations. However I do estimate that a number closer to 800 troops (spread across some distance) may be possible, several factors depending. Most likely servers will have to have fewer player slots (24-32) to reduce the amount of AI entities while still maintaining larger Company sizes. More research, and of course actual testing will be required but we want this to feel as epic or as mundane as you choose each time you lead your troops out.

If you fall, your troops will continue to fight on without you, but you'll lose control of them when you respawn. They'll stay near where you fell but after a given time period, say 5-10 min. they will all route, regardless of casualties to clean up the battlefield AI. In this way, you won't be able to instantly route a unit by specifically targeting the commander (player), but you will effectively eliminate them from the fight eventually, giving a reason to employ sharpshooters. Routing units will be killed/disappear once far enough away it shouldn't be noticeable. I do want to try to incorporate a morale system so that troops will sometimes route even while you're alive, especially at low health and with high casualties in the Company. If we can pull off the morale system, I don't want to try to incorporate any way to rally routed troops as it could get really buggy, though I may try to see if we can add in a morale bolstering shout or battle cry (with an effectiveness cooldown) that will temporarily raise their morale. You will only be able to respawn back at your side's camp.

We will include a stamina system so as infantry, you will need to march (walk) the majority of the time, or your troops will become winded and proficiency (accuracy) will greatly decrease. To further make this an important factor, if we can make a morale system work, we will include stamina in the morale checks mentioned above so that if they are tired, they won't do well in a charge. Sprinting yourself and your troops should be reserved for emergency maneuvering, or charges. There will not be any fast travel system.

If possible, we want to include working formations, i.e. column, line, skirmish, etc. We'll have to see how we can tweak the AI to make this work. Along with this, if possible I would like to give a movement speed bonus to the column formation, making it beneficial for moving from one location to another while not engaged. I also want to incorporate the ability to give a kneel command to your first rank. There will be a morale bonus for line formation, again, if morale is possible. There will be no bonus for the skirmish formation, as its bonus will come from having your troops spread out, making it naturally harder to score an inadvertant hit even if the shooter misses the intended target.

If you're feeling incredibly brave (or stupid), you can even venture out solo for some scouting action, though if you're spotted, your chances of survival will be small with only you as the target of so many Minie balls.

A custom map (island in ArmA 2-speak) will need to be done eventually. I'm thinking an 8x8-12x12 km map will more than suffice for this. We want it big enough to feel real, yet not so large it hogs server resources, or players are too often unable to effectively meet and fight each other, though "choke points" or "contention points" could be created with clever placement of objectives even on a larger map. We'll also want a clean custom map so that only our own props will be visible in the environment, completing the feel.

The focus of this mission will be to showcase all the features and details of our mod, and everything we've created. It will be set up to reward teamwork and clever strategy, and to create an atmosphere where you are immersed in the reenactment of the period.

Once our mod is polished enough, we will also release it to the community so that the myriad of other mission creators in the ArmA 2 community can create both single player campaigns with story lines and such as well as new and interesting multiplayer missions creating limitless possibilities.

* Cavalry is just so unknown at this point. If we can include it at all, it may end up being just AI troops, or worst case, just scenery fluff models.

Edited July 25, 2011 by USMCLuke

[Laqueesha 474]

Here's a vid of where we're at ATM, we could swap/trade models at the least to save a bit of time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mjuxm1VOSxI

Some nice stuff there.

Edited July 25, 2011 by Laqueesha

[celery 8]

I really recommend tackling the obvious hard parts (horses and mounted/melee combat) before you push on to detailed models and other concepts.

[mr pedersen 41]

Ask Invasion 44 mod team about the Melee Combat. They have a working bayonett with animation.

Horse, That sound hard to me. Take a look at the Mount & Blade Horses how they work. If you could get somthing like that ingame... your are a winner:

[-)rStrangelove 0]

Depends what situations you want to tackle in the mod and in what scale. If its all about infantry battle and no riding is involved at all, then fiddling around with rideable horses for 1 year is just a waste of time.

Maybe an animated horse-wagon would be better ?

Maybe ArmA3 will be a better platform for horses so waiting a bit might be an option?

[USMCLuke 10]

While ArmA 3 looks pretty, they lost me on the future setting. I've been with this series since OFP and it'll be the first title I don't purchase, at least not for a few years. I'll give it a few years for the mod community to catch up with some total conversions/ports and then I'll pick it up on the cheap somewhere.

As far as this mod goes, everything's really just talk until we manage to recruit a model and texture guy willing to get something put together for us to start with.

[wld427 1705]

As far as this mod goes, everything's really just talk until we manage to recruit a model and texture guy willing to get something put together for us to start with.

Do you have anything at all as a base yet? What if any contributions are you making or are you just the mod head or recruiter? Im very interested in you mod and would be willing to help\share knowledge with you guys if you have models to start with.

[USMCLuke 10]

We have guys that can mod all sorts of different areas of ArmA 2 within our own community, and are willing to help, and we've also had a lot of offers to help in other areas from within the ArmA 2 modding community, but no one that can do models and that's a bit of a sticking point. I have tinkered with modelling, and mine are OK, but not great, and I have no experience texturing, creating UV maps, etc.

I manage the entire MilitaryGamers.com community (over 800 members) from several of our game branches to the website, forums, memberships etc. I also work full time (with travel nearly every month), and I have a wife and three small children. The WBtS project is my vision, and so I'm overseeing it, organizing etc., and I will be helping with some of the coding as well as creating the MP mission when it comes to that point, but my plate is currently too full to teach myself what it would take to create quality models, so I'm recruiting (outsourcing) for this.

Until we have textured models, there's really not much point to doing anything else, so no, there's no "base". Those items would form the base.

[StubbleHopper 0]

I'd b willing to do some basic infantry models for you to get you started, here's the type of stuff I can do for ARMA2, what skills do you personally bring to this, if you don't mind me asking beffore I commit to this?

https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=e215c7d807e6779c&sc=photos#cid=E215C7D807E6779C&id=E215C7D807E6779C%21175&sc=photos

[paplate 10]

Have you guys figured out how you'll make units do battles? I know you can just have them stand in a line, but things such as fire by rank and square formations etc. are not supported by default AI. I'd just recommend starting work on this now with default units, as it's going to be a very important part of making this work.

[USMCLuke 10]

I'd b willing to do some basic infantry models for you to get you started, here's the type of stuff I can do for ARMA2, what skills do you personally bring to this, if you don't mind me asking beffore I commit to this?

https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=e215c7d807e6779c&sc=photos#cid=E215C7D807E6779C&id=E215C7D807E6779C%21175&sc=photos

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/poomtang/arma2202010-02-262015-28-32-3520copy1.jpg

So you're the one that did the Sharpe's units? Cool. I took note of it as soon as I saw it on Armaholic quite a while back. Was hoping to see a full-on Napoleonic mod result from it.

I am a jack-of-trades of sorts when it comes to modding. I can work a lot of things that others have created and tweak them to my own ends. I've not created any original content in any recent games that's made it to the public, but as far as ArmA 2 goes, I've done a lot to tweak MP missions, especially Warfare. We used to run a version of Benny's Warfare on a MilitaryGamers.com server that I had heavily modified to meet the realism expectations of the US military veterans of the MG community.

I also created the '53 Enfield Model on the first page in about 8 hrs and I'd never used a 3D modelling program prior. I just never taught myself how to adequately texture it...

Have you guys figured out how you'll make units do battles? I know you can just have them stand in a line, but things such as fire by rank and square formations etc. are not supported by default AI. I'd just recommend starting work on this now with default units, as it's going to be a very important part of making this work.

The AI work is going to be such a huge undertaking that it will practically be a mod in and of itself. I have a guy that will be helping work on this, but he is also one of my staff members and is currently already tasked out and since we are at a point where there's no point in investing a lot of time and energy until we know it can actually be a reality.

If we can get the initial models and weapons in, then we can begin to tap all the various people that are helping and set them to work in several areas at once utilizing SVN checkout.

Edited July 30, 2011 by Foxhound
Please do not quote images!

[Chaingunfighter 103]

Dis will be fun:

BLUFOR:

-Afrenian Army

-USMC

-US

-CDF

-1944 US Soldiers

-1985 US Soldiers

-1985 German Soldiers

-1860's Northern Troops

Opfor:

-Russia

-Takistani Army

-Insurgents

-1944 Germans/Luftwaffe

-1985 Soviets

-1860's South

Independent:

-Zetaborn Aliens

-1985 Chernarussians

-Predators

-Infected/Zombies

-Guerillas

LETS DO THAS THANG!

[Laqueesha 474]

LETS DO THAS THANG!

The War of 1812 mod: :p

BLUFOR:

United States of America

OPFOR:

United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland

Independent:

Choctaw

Cherokee

Shawnee

Iroquois

[paplate 10]

The AI work is going to be such a huge undertaking that it will practically be a mod in and of itself. I have a guy that will be helping work on this, but he is also one of my staff members and is currently already tasked out and since we are at a point where there's no point in investing a lot of time and energy until we know it can actually be a reality.

Well, I'm no AI expert, but I think you could do "Fire by rank" with creative use of triggers and eventhandlers, perhaps? Just throwing out some suggestions.

[mr pedersen 41]

I suggest you start atleast TRY to make a working horse. Players would love to have working cavalry units.

That would be Epic.

Think I said it before, take a look at the Horse in the game Mount & Blade.

If this mod get a good progress in the future, I might help you make a " Battle of Gettysburg" Island map. But first I need to finish my pacific islands :D

[stephsen 79]

good news Mr.Pedersen :)

[USMCLuke 10]

I suggest you start atleast TRY to make a working horse. Players would love to have working cavalry units.

That would be Epic.

Think I said it before, take a look at the Horse in the game Mount & Blade.

If this mod get a good progress in the future, I might help you make a " Battle of Gettysburg" Island map. But first I need to finish my pacific islands :D

A custom island is critical for our mod and on our eventual to-do list.

[USMCLuke 10]

Anyone interested in offering real assistance to these efforts please go to http://www.militarygamers.com/forums/ucp.php?mode=register and register an account on the MilitaryGamers.com forums. This is for the guys who've offered model/texture help, animations help, map help, etc. I'd like to include everyone on a team roster on our site to make task organization easier to manage. This doesn't mean you're committed to the project or team full-time, it just makes it easier for me to organize everyone's efforts and to contact you.

It would also help for you to make a post under the WBtS forum after you register so that we know who you are and your account doesn't get purged. Registered accounts without memberships are generally purged on a 90 day inactivity basis unless you're actively contributing to the community.

Communicating via these forums is fine for brief questions or inquiries, however, I don't check this site as often, and no actual mod work will be handled here, it is all managed on our site. We will post major updates here occasionally, but the bulk of the project will be managed via the MilitaryGamers.com forums.

[chammy 7]

I salivate at the thought of a Civil War mod

[USMCLuke 10]

We've not gotten the support we'd need to get the ball rolling on this. I'm officially calling it on the mod at this point. I am simply involved in far too many projects at MilitaryGamers.com to attempt this one alone with the few guys I have on my staff that would be able to assist.

Here's to hoping that someone can see a vision like this through someday.

[stephsen 79]

sadly news ...:(

[ProfTournesol 956]

Yes that's really sad, one more fail after sharpe's rifles mod closure... it seems that current modders have hard time recreating old-fashioned mods with ArmA2 modding requirements.

[Stonewall Jackson 0]

Yes that's really sad, one more fail after sharpe's rifles mod closure... it seems that current modders have hard time recreating old-fashioned mods with ArmA2 modding requirements.

I agree.

It's too bad.

I would have loved to see the continuation of the Civil War mod from Flashpoint.

I look back and regret the petty bickering that was the old Civil War Mod!

I hope someone...someday... stays the course.

FWIW I still have the old models and scripts from Flashpoint and Arma1.

I will upload them if requested.

[mr pedersen 41]

The Civil War mod from Flashpoint was great fun!