Engaging from more than 500m plus ?

[cartier90 0]

I have A2 and OA patched up to date and am frustrated by the fact the AI have difficulty in engaging , when they do , they are not the best shots.

I have Super AI on, and have tried ACE, ACE works better but perfomance is bad on my comp due to the scripts and various other effects.

Try putting youself as a Sniper and various OPFOR goups at 1000 900 all the way down too 600m, only the 600m team respond immediately, even then with poor accuracy.

Is this a 1.57 issue ? and is this worth raising a ticket for ( assuming others find a similar problem) , I swear that A2 pre OA release was not this bad .....

....

Edited March 19, 2011 by cartier90

[pooroldspike 129]

..only the 600m team respond immediately, even then with poor accuracy..

600m is quite a long range so don't be too hard on them, and if you're wearing a sniper suit (and prone) they probably can't see you properly.

At shorter ranges they're quite accurate, in fact some people think they're too accurate.

Set up a new test with Opfor groups at 400m/ 200m/ 100m then come back and tell us what happened..

[Bushwaakka 10]

Their rifles are only meant to be used at ranges of around 500 metres aren't they?

[cartier90 0]

Poor old - well thats just it - I set myself up as a regular soldier, against a OPFOR sniper, above 500m there response is highly inconsistent - I recall A2 being better in this regard.

400m or less, indeed - their great. Up against Machine gunners, they should be engaging at 800m no ? - when they do, there awful ...

[maturin 12]

SuperAI isn't remotely realistic. I recommend turning it off if you want a real mission.

Engaging with 5.56 and 5.45 beyond 500m is rather futile. It is extremely difficult with 7.62x39 because of the high trajectory.

That said, default AI is very reticent to engage in long-range firefights. ACE 2 and especially Zeus AI remedy this, and ACE really shouldn't be eating more than two or three frames. If your computer is to slow, the AI will suffer in many ways.

But first make sure that the AI in question are actually aware of targets.

[cartier90 0]

Maturin - I did try ACE , and yes engagement ranges were much improved , however , AI accuracy was still quite poor. A sniper should be able to pick me off at 800m within 3 or 4 shots - this wasnt happening , below 550 say , great - above ... Poor .

[nkenny 1051]

Maturin - I did try ACE , and yes engagement ranges were much improved , however , AI accuracy was still quite poor. A sniper should be able to pick me off at 800m within 3 or 4 shots - this wasnt happening , below 550 say , great - above ... Poor .

In combat conditions? while being shot at? from a cold start without knowing where you are first or what the environment is like?

Sounds optimistic.

-k

[maturin 12]

Maturin - I did try ACE , and yes engagement ranges were much improved , however , AI accuracy was still quite poor. A sniper should be able to pick me off at 800m within 3 or 4 shots - this wasnt happening , below 550 say , great - above ... Poor .

ACE only changes engagement behavior. The accuracy is under your control with precision values.

The problem is that making these realistic for rifle-armed infantry nerf snipers somewhat. I don't know if there are sniper-specific accuracy mods.

If they're still not accurate at full precision settings with ACE, it may be because ACE makes the built-in dispersion of the gun realistic. As you get close to 1000m, even M42s and such get iffy.

I'd recommend making your AIPrecision values inbetween .7 and 1 while running ZeusAI.

[NoQuarter 0]

Chalk it (inaccuracy at range) up to spray and pray, or that you are witnessing suppressive fire.

____

If this is frustrating to you I can only imagine what watching AI drive a HMMWV from A to B does.

[Mr. Charles 22]

I think that this routine is fair enough. A SVD is a designated marksman rifle, designed to lay down precise shots or rapid accurate fire. The marksman will wait until the rest of his squad can lay down supressive fire.

[msy 22]

I think your AI enemies must not have PKP machinegun! In my early test in desert map for CO, I always find that PKP is very useful anti-sniper weapon.

[JdB 151]

Up against Machine gunners, they should be engaging at 800m no ? - when they do, there awful ...

A machine gun is an area-effect weapon, especially when required to cover it's maximum range (varies for each machine gun, for the M240 it's 800 meters). Machine guns at those ranges are not meant to take out individual targets, but to harass larger bodies of troops. Make them seek cover, mess up their situational awareness. Even with a sniper rifle at (or near) the maximum range it's hard to hit the mark, even for the best snipers. There are just too many variables that come into play.

Edited March 20, 2011 by JdB

[pooroldspike 129]

SOME SPOTTING TESTS

(Vanilla Comb Ops 1.57 Desert map, Regular difficulty, )

First test, 200m

I place a Blufor Rifleman (player, standing) and a 12-man Opfor squad 200m apart-

I start the game and the Opfor squad instantly sees me and cuts me down within about 5 seconds-

[pooroldspike 129]

Second test, 300m:-

I'm standing stationary (not firing) but they can't see me!

Holding the right mouse butt zooms them close-

After 2 minutes they still haven't seen me so I begin firing-

and am cut down by a storm of return fire about 10 secs later-

[pooroldspike 129]

I then ran it at 400m and 600m, and as before the squad never saw me until I began firing, then they returned fire and slew me.

However, at these longer ranges they took longer to spot me (around 20 to 30 secs) even though I was firing.

Also, at 600m I don't think any rifles were firing at me, just the squads 2 machineguns.

PS- the squad contained this 'Marksman', but whether he ever fired I don't know

SUMMARY-

At around 300m or more, the enemy usually won't spot you (even if you're standing), as long as you don't fire.

At longer ranges out to around 600m and more, standard riflemen tend not to engage you (even if they can see you) because their weapons haven't the range, but their MG's will engage at long range.

(But as always remember these were just tests, and results may vary during games depending on various factors such as difficulty level, visibility, weather, day/night, weaponry, moving, crouching, crawling, prone etc)

Edited March 20, 2011 by PoorOldSpike

[Imperator[TFD] 444]

Nice test results there mate.

And this is why I tell players to not open fire on enemy AI until they're much closer as the AI have the hearing of a mouse but the eyes of a mole.

[THEBLITZ6794 10]

m16 is meant for no more than 200m. ak47 is about 300...what do you expect?

[cartier90 0]

I'm just one of those awkward players ;) - if I have a particular niggle with a game which (to me ) affects immersion i like to see if it can be fixed.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=93262&highlight=bullet+velocity

The above was something I found was unrealistic - its fixed now but I'm not so sure !

[lsp 10]

all i can say is l o l 3-4shots at 800m cold bore with a 7.62 while being engaged from a unknown enemy rllly?? imagine being in a combat situation and being engaged from almost a mile away you wouldn even know where to fire back at much less pin point a guy in full camo laying prone somewhere in the forest desert whatever i dont think the ai is at fault one bit for this although like others before me have said zues ai increases engagement ranges and responsiveness of ai and you can use it without ace even successfully engaging at 600m is good most opfor have iron sights id say thats pretty good 900-1000m out are you serious id also recomend gl3 or gl4 it makes them use smarter tactics movements call in backup from other units other good stuff

Edited March 20, 2011 by lsp
gl

[The Hebrew Hammer 10]

I disagree the M16A4 service rifle is accurate up 550 meters, but is still effective up to 1000 in the scenario where you need to suppress the enemy.

I'm running ACE and Zeus as well and am having trouble setting up my mission so that the enemy will engage a small outpost in the Kunar region map. I'm trying to get them to engage from low draws up towards an outpost or with dshkm from mountainside to mountainside, even using the doWatch, doTarget, and doFire inits in those OPFOR units they're still just standing there, it has to be me that initiates contact which sucks because IRL it's usually the muj that starts the gunfight.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

However, at these longer ranges they took longer to spot me (around 20 to 30 secs) even though I was firing.

Just a small addition. If you have already been made, they will 're-make' (?) you much faster the second time. If you managed to get the knowsAbout gradually climb to 4 the fist time, allow it to "cool down", then relocate and reengage, knowsAbout will now snap right to 4.

Otherwise, good test.

[cartier90 0]

My only issue was that Sniper fire , once made - is not instigated at 800 900m plus - yes its a long way , but real snipers fire 1200 m plus no problem.....

[kireta21 13]

My only issue was that Sniper fire , once made - is not instigated at 800 900m plus - yes its a long way , but real snipers fire 1200 m plus no problem.....

Maybe for large caliber rifles. For 7.62mm sniper rifles 1200m is an extreme range. In fact the longest confirmed kill with "regular" sniper rifle is ~1250m made with M24.

I think AI don't attack at long distance unless fired upon because of

12 O' CLOCK, UNKNOWN, MAN, 500 METERS

Still, AI equped with scoped weapons and binoculars should be able to confirm/deny target (when spotted by squad) at longer range for sake of realism.

Edited March 20, 2011 by boota

[NoRailgunner 0]

What happen if you set the sniperteams on highest rank + skill and place them with at least on waypoint? Maybe you should try it with different time/weather conditions too...

[cartier90 0]

NRG - to be fair , with a waypoint, their reactions are better.