AI - would you say its improved ?

[cartier90 0]

I am a Vanilla player - but have tried Zeus AI and liked it a lot. For now though, I am sticking with OA and ARMA2 fully patched up. In my eyes at least the AI is 'good enough' from long range to medium distances, within 50m though OPFOR forces sometimes dont 'swivel' fast enough on their axis to target you and seem to take an age to do so.

There are free roaming games that dont seem to have this problem. GTA4 is one such example which I think has excellent opposition AI, fast to take cover and not hesitant in taking a shot or two. ARMA AI like to run a little , lay down , scan the horizon but take quite some time to actually fire their damn sidearm .

What is it that makes it so hard to program over and above other games ? Do we need a quantum leap in technology or AI programming to expect a 'human like' gaming experience.

I appreciate this issue is well trodden ground but with such an subjective topic can anyone definitively say whether AI has improved from ARMA2 1.01 to OA 1.57 ? and is there planned upgrades in this area ?

This is not a 'dig' at the game, been a fan since 01 - just would like to know whether the vaunted 'micro-AI' actually makes any difference.

[metalcraze 290]

AI in AA2 is not really that slow within 50m. They don't have 360 degree eyes just like you so they can't really see well what's going on to their sides or rear

In GTA4 all missions are corridors, there is no AI in them, just static models playing animations per heavy scripting which looks relatively natural because player always comes from the same side.

Outside of missions there is some AI and the best it can do is run around, sometimes "hiding" behind something where then an animation starts where it pops in and out of cover so you can blast it in its head and it will rarely react to whatever manoeuvering you are doing. And it never shows any teamwork. And that's all there is to it. No stances, no tactics, no suppression fire, no nothing. They die in hundreds, unable to provide enough ressistance.

AA2 AI looks weird because it's dynamic and tries to take into account surroundings and I guess one script takes over another at times (which makes AI to lie down, then get up, etc). The only way to make a life-like AI is to make it act like human which no game had achieved as of yet,

Edited March 15, 2011 by metalcraze

[fabrizio_t 58]

There are still problems with AI in CQB, but AI was definitely improved over the last year. More features, less bugs.

[dmarkwick 261]

Something to bear in mind is that the ArmA2 engine is not player-centric like the GTA4 engine. In ArmA2 two opposing groups across the other side of the map out of any sight of any player will recieve as much detailed AI processing as units within your sight. Some people might say what's the point in simulating something that a player might never see or be influenced by, but it's an example of the fidelity of the engine, and allows for much greater possibilities.

[max power 21]

Also bear in mind that the AI must be scaled in proportion to what it's designed to do. You can have quite a few AI in a 3 sided conflict as it buys units, takes towns, fights against itself on a rather large scale all over quite a large map, with each bullet flying in a ballistic arc and each AI unit with its own set of information about the world and what it knows about. I'd imagine that in such a circumstance you'd want to design AI that's a bit austere.

[EDcase 87]

...In ArmA2 two opposing groups across the other side of the map out of any sight of any player will recieve as much detailed AI processing as units within your sight.

Thats not actually true. They will have lower calculation priority to the units near players. One of the Devs stated this but I can't remember where I read it tho. If I find it I'll edit this post.

To answer OP, Yes AI has certainly improved. Still not perfect of course but its great to see them hide behind obstacles and lean out to shoot.

Edited March 15, 2011 by EDcase

[SteveJA 12]

Some times the AI blow me away, obviosly somtimes it has its quirks but i keep having games like this \/

So i fanced a "quick" game (emphasis on quick) game on Arma last night. So i load up Proving grounds (Great map btw) put down myself and one AI with me, against a squad of russians as well as the ACE medic moduals.

I ended up playing for 2hours with a possible dozen deaths! I knew being outnumberd was going to be hard but the AI, just WOW!. Before i start il say im running some Mods cant remember all right now, i shall find out though.

Heres one example of what happened. I start on the most easterly bridge on the east of the map, and the enemy start east 500m from that bridge down the road. Me and my Ai squad mate move into the vally and come up the other side to assume a firing point. Once in position i fire at the exposed soldiers on the road, and suddenly the AI dash ethier side of the road very life like. Within seconds of me firing the first shots, both enemy machine gunners surpress my position from cover/concealment. Under way too much fire i pull back into the bottom of the vally and run south along the gully for ~150m at which point i go up onto the westen side.

This gives me a great view into the vally up to the bridge and average view to the east over the fields. so i wait for them to cross the vally and sure enough a few come into view by the bridge. Once they were on the gullys bottom we opened fire possilby hitting one. Suddenly "Whak Wack Wack" the ground around us lit up as soldiers who had broken away from the main formation fired from the easten fields. With only open fields behind me i dive back into the gully and run southward along the gully at full speed with the intention of out manuvering the enemys flanking forces and catching them in the open. so another 300m or so southward i pop my head out on the easten side of the gully and look for the flanking group.

While i wait, my AI man (now called Wilson), covered down the gully. Finaly about 100m north east i see movement and open fire to halt thier advance. 5 mins later with both me and the flanking force battling for supremecy of the firefight the second group (i guess predicatibly looking back) began firing at us up the vally, leaving me astonished at how quickly the AI got a move on (none of this waiting around). Finaly i lose the easten fire fight and become pinned and therfore turned my guns on the gully group. At this point i know i have to pull back to avoid being surrounded but moving would mean we would have to break cover, so i started moved back 50 yards then fired untill Wilson caught up. As he ran back i saw him take a hit so, now emotionally attached to wilson (haha), i throw some smoke to check he was ok. Unfortunatly he wasn't. Now on my own i just ran Southward hoping to find cover out of the gully before being over run, however the flanking AI (masterfully quick) were already on the edge of the gully by the time i ran and had a clear shot ending another attempt of victory.

The AI were Incredible,

Credits to the AI mods i (might of) had and BI.

But even when i was Vanilla i had games like this!

Edited March 15, 2011 by SteveJA360

[dmarkwick 261]

Thats not actually true. They will have lower calculation priority to the units near players. One of the Devs stated this but I can't remember where I read it tho. If I find it I'll edit this post..

Well, OK maybe lower calculation priority, but no less calculation overall :)

[cartier90 0]

I have to say, perhaps I was a little pessimistic with my topic. Had a great game as myself as a Sniper versus 24 Takistani soldiers in Feruz Abad. Setting myself up in all area, from houses to behind rocks. Shooting a few enemys and them changing position Its impossible to get beyond killing 8 or 9 before one of them takes me out showing a sliver of myself around a corner.

One AI just shot my own gun, with the small round upon metal flash that you see when shooting cars, close call !

---------- Post added at 19:56 ---------- Previous post was at 18:59 ----------

Sorry to double post but can any one recommend a non ZEUS AI mod, I say non Zeus because I cant run ACE without heavy fps hit.

[Tonci87 163]

Well I have stoped using Zeus since the latest Betas, The AI is really better with just the Vanilla game (and ACE). They maneuver quickly, take cover and keep you pinned down. Its amazing

[cartier90 0]

aah damnit - help ! , I have ACE installed just for the soundmod and it will now not start saying x\cba\addons\main\script_macros_common.hpp not found ....game worked fine with just @zcommon unselected. Is there a target line I can access the expansion checklist from desktop ?

[meade95 0]

I'm starting to notice this much more....that the AI (both friendly and enemy) is just awful within 15 meters - They will literally just sit there and look at each other doing nothing - I have enemy come up within 10 meters of us....and my group just sits there and does nothing....

[metalcraze 290]

Use Zeus AI with ACE

It doesn't give any FPS hit as long as you don't use GLx pbo (and related pbos) and improves AI (also at CQB so they are much less passive at 20m or less). Make sure it's the latest version (0.02d1)

Some explanation just in case: GLx pbo hurts gameplay by making AIs going too much about their own business. Sometimes it looks impressive (like AIs sticking close together, throwing smoke grenades, etc), sometimes it hurts the game like when you are a commander and your AIs start to run away doing their own thing and you have no control over it

Removing it will make it OK again although without some nice features.

[Cookieeater 10]

ArmA II really needs to improve CQC AI. The AI is good from far away, but up close the glaring delays with AI are immense. Everyone has had moments where you're fighting a soldier less than 20m to you and be saved due to AI being extremely delayed by taking 5 seconds to shoot at you. AI is perfectly fine other else than that.

[MrPhetz 10]

My two cents: I think the AI has improved a ton. Before, during a mission I would end up with almost a breadcrumb trail of AI teammates sitting in my wake, just hanging out and doing nothing. Now (vanilla beta), the AI sticks with me and can actually help out in an immersive and fun way without the need for Zeus AI or ACE.

That said, there's definitely room for improvement, particularly in the pathfinding and targeting areas. Like people have said, CQB isn't nearly as tense as it should be. I've found and killed AI execution-style more than I care to remember; it'd be nice to have the AI just detect the player if he's within a certain (very close) radius if it doesn't already. No matter how stealthy I am, I as a soldier wearing a full combat load shouldn't be able to just creep up on a guy and pretty much press my gun into the back of his head before killing him, just because I'm out of his FoV.

[Muahaha 10]

ArmA II really needs to improve CQC AI. The AI is good from far away, but up close the glaring delays with AI are immense. Everyone has had moments where you're fighting a soldier less than 20m to you and be saved due to AI being extremely delayed by taking 5 seconds to shoot at you. AI is perfectly fine other else than that.

^this +1, this is the only thing slack bout AI currently for me. Which more than a few times encountered with AI within 30m staring blankly at each other and later go on opposite sides w/o firing a shot. This causes false impressions that the area is cleared but is not. I really hope BIS would implement what Zeus has done with enemy detection for CQC.

[Tonci87 163]

But this is not alwways true. Recently I have experienced a very quich reaction by the AI. It was an MP Mission on the Fallujah map. I was running towards a corner when suddenly an Taki Officer rund around it. He had his Weapon faster up than me and killed my within a split second. Notice, he was not hiding behind that corner, he wasn´t even aware of me, he just literally run into me and shoot me instantly. And I´m a fast player....

So maybe its something with the skill slider. Who knows.

Watch this too see how quick the Arma 2 AI can be

[SteveJA 12]

I belive the AI delay you guys are on about, only occurs if you suddenly walk into thier Fov when they hav'nt spotted you before hand. For example put a AI soldier in a compound with yourself outside. Now walk in to the compound and then walk back ouside. If the AI has clocked you, the next time you so much as poke your head round that entrance, your lit up.

The delay seems to be the AI waking up and checking wether your friend of foe.

Edited March 16, 2011 by SteveJA360

[fabrizio_t 58]

I belive the AI delay you guys are on about, only occurs if you suddenly walk into thier Fov when they hav'nt spotted you before hand. For example put a AI soldier in a compound with yourself outside. Now walk in to the compound and then walk back ouside. If the AI has clocked you, the next time you so much as poke your head round that entrance, your lit up.

The delay seems to be the AI waking up and checking wether your friend of foe.

Exactly, at least that's what i noticed too. AI in CQB needs too much time to identify as friend or foe newly detected targets. Tweaking config settings ("Accuracy") does help, hope BIS will look into this soon.

[avengerzx 10]

AI Snipers can't seems to detect shots fired beyond 500m during a Marksman test mission my friend made today. Test with Zeus AI will not work with latest 1.57 (not 1.58 Beta patch) which was 78188.

[Tonci87 163]

Try testing without Zeus AI (with ACE if possible) As far as I know ZEUS hasn´t been updated for quite a while. I think it doesn´t really work good with the latest Betas, thats why i stoped using it and immediately got better AI with Beta+ACE

[Ollie1983 10]

I'm not sure if this was the case for Amra etc but in many games the problem is not making the AI 'too good' where they detect and eliminate the player with mechanical ease and as such, gimping them is the name of the game.

I think the AI is good enough for what I want. I'm not a great player, I rely on surprise attacks more than anything, and bug out when they enemy get a fix on me because otherwise they soon kill me.

[SteveJA 12]

Remember Arma's AI has been desinged to give a realistic experiance. In many games you are expected to run and gun through hordes of pathetic puppets whose sole purpose is to be shot at. Where as Arma's AI are designed to win!

[Tonci87 163]

remember arma's ai has been desinged to give a realistic experiance. In many games you are expected to run and gun through hordes of pathetic puppets whose sole purpose is to be shot at. Where as arma's ai are designed to win!

^true

[Muahaha 10]

Remember also that if the AI is improved on their reaction time, it's both sides of the coin. Hence it's going to be how well you position yourself and your guys to beat the enemy.