Apache 30 mm gun Vs Tunguska

[Saint Warrior 10]

Hi all,

Did anybody succeed in destroying Tunguska with 30 mm gun of AH-64D Apache chopper in Eagle Wing campaign? I mean the first mission where you have to shoot down taking off Su-25 aircraft.

This Tunguska seems to be invulnerable to 30 mm gun, at least in this mission. It cuts my Apache to pieces with a couple of salvos while I fire my 30 mm gun with no effect at any angle having valid lock on this target.

Any tips of destroying the Tunguska with 30 mm Apache gun would be greatly appreciated.

Edited March 8, 2011 by Zipper5

[icebreakr 3159]

Try shooting in its tracks. Stupid AI usually abandons vehicle if they magically know that they won't be able to go to McDonalds Drive-in anymore.

[Saint Warrior 10]

This thing is so aggressive that I can't climb any higher then tree tops and basically have only a couple of seconds to get a clean shot on it with valid 30 mm gun lock. I play on 100 percent enemy and allied AI strength though.

But nevertheless Vodnik APC is easily destroyed with single burst while Tunguska does not seem to be taking any damage from 30 mm at all. Or maybe I should just try hard to avoid it instead of trying to counterattack? :confused:

Edited March 8, 2011 by Zipper5

[Daniel 0]

If you can get away with avoiding it, do so. There's a lot more to the mission. ;)

[Steakslim 1]

Tunguska vs Aircraft.............tunguska usually wins, especially in ArmA.

However if by some chance you think you can get a hellfire to hit it, that'll probably be the only way to kill it quickly, or shoot it's tracks like Icebreaker said.

[Saint Warrior 10]

If you can get away with avoiding it, do so. There's a lot more to the mission. ;)

Yes, I understand but that's pretty bloody difficult though I play with Saitek ST290 Pro joystick and comfortable button layouts. I have to follow tree edges bursting flares at certain moments in order not to get a missile from that Tunguska as well as avoiding it's multiple salvos.

Naturally I thought it would be more practical to return fire when Tunguska gets in the limits of my gun turret rotation in order to extinguish it's aggression at least a little bit but it seems that those Tunguskas and Shilkas are a lot more armored than regular APCs so they can't be damaged easily with 30 mm gun.

Hellfires would be great of course but they are not available in that particular mission of EW as Apache is tasked for AA operations.

Edited March 8, 2011 by Zipper5

[Daniel 0]

Unfortunately in Eagle Wing you don't get the luxury of Hellfires. Could try rocket spam?

I would recommend avoiding though, it'd not the kind of fight you should expect to win.

EDIT: Ninja'd.

In terms of armour, Shilkas have very thin armour. I imagine the Apache's 30mm would chew through it. Tunguska i'm not so sure.

Edited March 8, 2011 by Zipper5

[maturin 12]

Are you running any mods? That Tunguska never even engaged me. Obey your mission instructions.

Realistically speaking, the Tunguska has a light tank's chassis and turret. High Explosive Incendiary rounds won't be effective against that, and the shaped-charge rounds, which I don't think the Arma Apache carries, only penetrate 50mm of RHA.

Edited March 7, 2011 by maturin

[pooroldspike 129]

APACHE V TUNGUSKA tests

(vanilla Comb Ops 1.57/1.08, 'Regular' difficulty)

I place the contenders 1km apart on Vybor Plain, Chernarus..

The WRONG way- our chopper pops up well above the treeline in plain view and begins trading shots (red tracer) with the Tung (green tracer).

(Note, I'm 'Player as pilot' but the gunner usually opens up without me having to order him. Alternatively hit 'Tab' to help him by giving him a lockon)

After a minute or so of continual shooting by both sides, the helo gets its ass busted, (BUT in reruns sometimes the helo won and sometimes the Tung won, it's a 50-50 deal)

I also ran the test several times at half the range (500m) but the helo usually got shot down, so it looks like the Tung is more effective than the chopper at closer ranges.

The RIGHT way- this time the helo stays below the treeline and the Tung can't see him because its radar and the crews eyeballs are confused by the leaves.

But the chopper gunner can see him and begins hosing him down, note the red tracer. Again, the gunner does it all on his own initiative bless him..

NOTE- If the Tung crew saw you going behind the trees earlier, they might fire through the trees to get at you because they know where you are, there are no guarantees so watch out..

After a full minute or two of pouring cannon fire into the Tung, it's scratch one flat top! The poor Tung never fired at all!

(Incidentally all these tests were against the Tungs thicker frontal armour)

Edited March 7, 2011 by PoorOldSpike

[pooroldspike 129]

Of course, if you've got Hellfires there's no need to waste time with the gun, just hit 'F' a couple of times to cycle to Hellfs (readout top right), hit 'Tab' to lock on..

Then pop up just above the treetops (don't want to risk blowing up a thrushes nest) and let fly with the left mouse button-

Zappo, I fire a volley of 4 Hellfires in a feeding frenzy and the Tung is toast, it all happened so quick it never even had time to acquire the helo with its radar and start shooting-

We fly over to gloat and tell it "Don't ever take sides with anybody against the family again"

Bemused local villagers will tell their grandchildren of "the day the fire came by"

TACTICAL SUMMARY-

1- Keep the chopper at or below treetop height to confuse the Tungs radar.

2- The choppers gun can penetrate the Tungs frontal armour,although it may take a full minute or more of firing.

3- In a straight gunfight at 1 km, the odds of winning are 50-50

4- In a gunfight at less than 1 km the Tung has the edge.

5- If you've got Hellfires forget about gunfights, just pop up to treetop height, lock on and let fly.

6- Finally remember these tests were conducted in clear weather, and that results may vary slightly according to visibility and weather under combat conditions etc.

Edited March 7, 2011 by PoorOldSpike

[Saint Warrior 10]

PoorOldSpike, thanks for the great review.

The difference between your situation and Eagle Wing campaign is that you can't get behind those trees there as airfield is surrounded by dense deep forest. So you have to stay right above the trees and chase taking off Frogfoots just over this Tunguska.

It is just what you explained on the first example.

Maturin, I am not running any mods or third party addons, just plain original ArmA 2: CO 1.57 with BAF 1.02 and PMC 1.01. I have switched AI to max level, maybe that's why it's so aggressive.

Edited March 8, 2011 by Zipper5

[jakerod 254]

I didn't engage them at the airfield.

I sat behind that hill at the end of the runway and waited for them to fly over. Then I used cannon/sidewinders on them. I was doing a pretty crappy job of hitting them though. I still beat it however.

[pooroldspike 129]

Well I don't like Campaigns (I haven't the patience) but just had a brief crack at Eagles Wing on Regular difficulty-

********SPOILER********

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I took up this snug ambush position in the trees just out of sight of the airfield and fired off all my 8 Sidewinders at the Frogfoots taking off overhead, dunno if I downed any, they vanished into the mist being chased by 'winders. A Hind showed up and that was my only confirmed 'winder kill.

Things then went quiet so I popped up to eyeball the airfield just for fun, I wouldn't do it if I was playing seriously-

A Tung opened up, then 2 more streams of tracer started coming in so I dropped back into the safety of the trees, I got no beef with Tungs especially as the REMFs hadn't issued me with any Hellfires.

PS- I then popped back up again just to see what my gunner could do against 3(?) Tungs, and although he got in a few good bursts, I was soon shot down, I couldn't beat the 3-1 odds. Incidentally I forgot to look in the briefing to see whether we're supposed to attack the Tungs anyway.

Edited March 8, 2011 by Zipper5

[jakerod 254]

You're not supposed to attack the Tungs. I was fairly certain that the briefing included a spot to sit and shoot them down from. Maybe I was just thinking more clearly than I normally do though and chose a better position than I normally do.

Edited March 8, 2011 by Zipper5

[ffur2007slx2_5 11]

The Tungs cannot be destroied in the mission because they have been scripted. We don't need to destory Tungs but only SU25.

Edited March 8, 2011 by Zipper5

[avengerzx 10]

Guess what? What ffur2007slx2_5 said is absolutely correct!

[DaveP 66]

At that point in the mission you can just sit outside their attack range and wait for the su's to come to you

Edited March 8, 2011 by Zipper5

[Tonci87 163]

Rule No. 1 for Pilots:

If you are sitting in a chopper, don´t try to compete agains a Tunguska, it will shreder you most of the time!

In this mission you are told to get to point Sparta. Get there and wait for the planes to take off and fly over you before you shoot them some rockets in the ass. Don´t pop up over the hill!

Edited March 8, 2011 by Zipper5

[pooroldspike 129]

The Tungs cannot be destroied in the mission because they have been scripted. We don't need to destory Tungs but only SU25.

So to reply to Saint Warriors thread starter post in which he asked-

"Did anybody succeed in destroying Tunguska with 30 mm gun of AH-64D Apache chopper in Eagle Wing campaign? I mean the first mission where you have to shoot down taking off Su-25 aircraft.

This Tunguska seems to be invulnerable to 30 mm gun, at least in this mission. It cuts my Apache to pieces with a couple of salvos while I fire my 30 mm gun with no effect at any angle having valid lock on this target.

Any tips of destroying the Tunguska with 30 mm Apache gun would be greatly appreciated"

The answer seems to be they can't be destroyed because they're not real units, they're just scripted "ghost" units that can't be killed.

Obviously I've got a lot to learn about Campaigns, but if they might contain scripted "ghost" units that can't be killed I don't like the sound of that.

Why don't camp designers put real live killable units in them instead?

Edited March 8, 2011 by Zipper5

[Beagle 684]

Obviously I've got a lot to learn about Campaigns, but if they might contain scripted "ghost" units that can't be killed I don't like the sound of that.

Why don't camp designers put real live killable units in them instead?

It's only in this mini campaing and such units are mostly used for storyline. Youre going to crash anyway, thats part of the story. The flying part is not the main story part of EW.

Edited March 8, 2011 by Zipper5

[pooroldspike 129]

..Youre going to crash anyway, thats part of the story..

This gets crazier and crazier! So not only are there ghost units that can't be killed, but it's written in the stars that we're going to crash anyway!

What's the point of playing a Campaign if it has a soap opera plotline that says we're going to be written out?

But it's people like Saint Warrior who suffer most; they have the guts to attack Tunguskas and get shot down every time by an invulnerable ghost, leaving them wrongly thinking their tactics may have been bad, or that there may have been a bug or whatever. In short their time has been totally wasted.

Maybe we should start a petition to ban all ghost units from AA2 so that nobody else wastes their time attacking them?

Edited March 8, 2011 by Zipper5

[Deadfast 43]

This gets crazier and crazier! So not only are there ghost units that can't be killed, but it's written in the stars that we're going to crash anyway!

What's the point of playing a Campaign if it has a soap opera plotline that says we're going to be written out?

How about you play the campaign first? If you mind being driven by a plot you shouldn't be playing a campaign. The reason your Apache goes down is a pretty solid excuse for what comes next.

Edited March 8, 2011 by Zipper5

[pooroldspike 129]

..How about you play the campaign first? If you mind being driven by a plot you shouldn't be playing a campaign..

I've dabbled in Camps and can see why they're popular but sadly I don't have the patience to get deeply into them, especially as they might contain annoying "scripted" ghost units, and also they might put me at the mercy of a pre-ordained script and i'd feel like I was trapped in some kind of Matrix where reality bends and my will is not my own..:)

"Have you ever had a dream that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world?"

Edited March 8, 2011 by Zipper5

[Zipper5 74]

*Ahem*...

§21) Do not post campaign spoilers outside of the "Official Mission" forum.

If you need to discuss specifics of an official campaign mission outside of the official missions forum , for example to gain troubleshooting help in the troubleshooting forum, you must use the spoiler button to hide the spoiler from those people who don't want to see it, spoiling the campaign for other forum members may result in an immediate ban from the forums.

Too many of you to ban. :p

Just try to be a little more careful next time, guys. You can post all the spoilers you want if they're in the official missions forum. ;)

[Beagle 684]

*Ahem*...

Too many of you to ban. :p

Just try to be a little more careful next time, guys. You can post all the spoilers you want if they're in the official missions forum. ;)

Oh sorry...but the "campaign" is so short and so old now I just forgot the spoiler issue. EW is in no way a typical Campaign for this type of game it is quite a deviation and more "just for fun"...hey, it features a AH-64 with a Sidewinder loadout.

And I don't have a problem with storyline units to be invulnerable, avoids a lot of frustration.

Edited March 8, 2011 by Beagle