Libyan Air-force ordered to bomb protesters

[Baff1 0]

Sorry Mat old son, but that comment is quite lost on me.

I believe that democrats exist if that helps, but I'm truthfully not on the same wave length here.

I'm not sure what you are attempting to communicate. It's gone right over my head!

I'm wondering if all Tripoli's food supply comes through the port of Bengasi.

Edited March 7, 2011 by Baff1

[spooky lynx 73]

Doesn't sound too different from Chechnya under Kadryov's regime, except the bandits are working for the government.

Population of regions surrounding Chechnya now can live like others in the country, that's the difference.

It's never that neat. Barring Iraq, I wouldn't apply that description to recent American-led wars (the U.S. started the Kosovo war, lol what?), and I know you would go to all possible lengths to resist similar accusations against Russian actions. Any mention by me of Russian handiwork in the run-up to the Chechen and Georgian wars is going to turn this is into an off-topic five page debate that goes on all day.

Again, Chechnya is part of Russian Empire/USSR/Russian Federation for some centuries. BTW, Georgia was too. So why do you try to compare counter-separatist war in Chechnya with invasion of independent countries such as Iraq, Yugoslavia, Grenada, Panama, Haiti? Were those countries parts of US?

And you really, really should watch Russia Today. Then you won't criticize our media quite so much.

I don't watch it because I don't trust media much, either my domestic or foreign. And advice you to do the same and not to believe in fairytales about evil monsters who order to kill civilians just for lulz.

It would also take me a really long time to get through that post, as my Russian is only three months old. But it looks like one man's experience of a very small part of Libya in the fog of war, and I don't see why his view should be worth more than that of several hundred reporters. Because barring isolated incidents, they do not outright lie. I suppose looters have somehow taken over the vast majority of the country? And looters have killed over a thousand people? Surely you will agree that once you are dropping bombs on your own cities, you have lost all right to rule.

Google translator will help you:) It looks like some persons' experience in different cities exchanging with info with each other, BTW they watch both international media and state libyan TV and compare them. And those persons realise that all that horrors at TV or news sites is BS more than at 3/4.

[maturin 12]

Population of regions surrounding Chechnya now can live like others in the country, that's the difference.

I wasn't aware that police tortured people and burned down houses in Vladivostock.

Again, Chechnya is part of Russian Empire/USSR/Russian Federation for some centuries. BTW, Georgia was too. So why do you try to compare counter-separatist war in Chechnya with invasion of independent countries such as Iraq, Yugoslavia, Grenada, Panama, Haiti? Were those countries parts of US?

We're more powerful, so we get a bigger sphere of special interest. The whole Caucasus was independent and was invaded and colonized just like Belgium in the Congo. Does it not count if it was far enough back?

Neither the U.S. nor Russia respects sovereignty except when convenient. I don't know why you bother shedding tears for it so much. There's not going to be an invasion, just a no-fly zone at the most.

I don't watch it because I don't trust media much, either my domestic or foreign. And advice you to do the same and not to believe in fairytales about evil monsters who order to kill civilians just for lulz.

For lulz? He's slaughtering people to maintain power. He's videotaping protesters and then sending security forces to kidnap and torture them in order to intimidate the others. I haven't noticed any lulz.

And those persons realise that all that horrors at TV or news sites is BS more than at 3/4.

No it's not. At least take Baff's route and don't try to dispute facts.

[whisper 0]

Not a problem, he will pay his victim's families in a few years, after being convicted. It's not like it's the first time for him ...

[Baff1 0]

Personally I rather like Russia Today.

It's nice to get another view point.

They get pretty OTT anytime they mention the U.S.A. in my opinion. I tend to tune out for those parts. But it's all good and certainly the best available to me for Russian stories.

I get the Moscow Times free with my daily newspaper once a week. That's an American owned newsgroup however so you don't get All The Faults of America every third story.

@Mat some of the "facts" in the media coverage of this war have been utter hogwash.

The bits about Ghaddafi having fled to Venezuala for example.

Or the regime having been almost ousted and ready to collapse...

Thousands of civilians dead...

Ghaddaffi's planes deliberately missing their targets...

There is a lot of wishful thinking involved that has turned out not to be true.

Fog of war they call it.

A good many of those facts haven't really been facts at all. It takes a few days at least for anything that gets reported there to get validated by alternate sources.

I think this is true in all war reportage. I think it's a mistake to take this stuff at pure face value.

Even if they were the most unopinionated impartial journalist ever, reporting for the most independant unaligned impartial audience ever...

They still have a lot of room for either getting it wrong or for having absolutely no idea what is going on in the middle of a bloody road in the desert surrounded by scarey people shouting at them in foriegn languages while bombs go off and bullets fly by and they need to run for their lives or die.

Fog of war.

---------- Post added at 02:04 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:47 AM ----------

For lulz? He's slaughtering people to maintain power. He's videotaping protesters and then sending security forces to kidnap and torture them in order to intimidate the others. I haven't noticed any lulz.

If he is slaughtering people, then where are all the bodies?

I'm sorry but the language being used by his detractors doesn't really match up to the facts of the events being reported.

It's wildly inflammatory by my reckoning. And I mean wildly.

They have a battle for some oil terminal in which 3 rebel forces are killed and 20 more wounded... and some mad western politician is talking about the slaughter of civilians. And I don't see any piles of dead bodies. Or even any civilians. All I see is happy people with Anti Aircraft guns and some burnt out stuff.

LMAO and that guy with the RPG stuck up his arse. That has to hurt.

Now I am willing to believe many people are dying and many more getting wounded... especially now the fighting has entered urban areas.

but slaughter... thousands of civilians? They have been saying this since day one.

Sorry, but I'm not seeing it.

When Ghadaffi speaks he sounds a lot saner than John McCain.

These people have never before needed any excuse to talk smack about Ghaddaffi. A civil war in his country isn't validating them, it's just giving them another excuse.

We are well past the point where it actually matters whether he does anything wrong or not.

He's a pariah. They were all out to get him to start with.

Who knows, maybe this time they'll manage it.

Edited March 9, 2011 by Baff1

[jakerod 254]

U.N. Security Council approves no-fly zone in Libya

Jubilant Libyan rebels in Benghazi erupted with fireworks and gunfire after the U.N. Security Council voted Thursday evening to impose a no-fly zone and permit "all necessary measures" to protect civilians.

[maddogx 13]

Yup, looks like Libya could be looking at french, british and norwegian airstrikes pretty soon.

[icebreakr 3159]

Putting Eurofighters to tests against aging Mirage F1s, L-39 Albatros, Mig-21s, Mig-23s?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_Air_Force

[Tonci87 163]

Well, they have only 1 Mirage according to wiki. so there shouldn´t be much Problems. The other stuff doesn´t match a eurofighter

[spooky lynx 73]

Stupid resolution... It should prevent casualties among civilians, but how can you avoid them if Quaddafi's forces will stay in cities? There are no so smart bombs and missiles that can 100% hit a tank or APC without damaging any civilian infrastructure.

[whisper 0]

Yeah, better to do nothing after you told people they were right and you would back them up.... or not? Doing nothing was paving the way for AQ

[spooky lynx 73]

Better to bomb Bahraini and Saudi armies. They do the same as Quaddafi. If EU is so concerned about human rights of arabs - it should bash not only another bad guy but all the regimes that violate right of its population.

[whisper 0]

That would probably not be backed up by other arab & african nations, unlike current resolution.

But, yeah, "2 poids, 2 mesures", not a good thing, and there is more than just "defending democracy" in this resolution.

I was just saying that passing the resolution or do nothing, this week, I prefer the resolution

[Daniel 0]

I'd have preferred it last week. The triumph of evil and good men doing nothing and all that.

That said, it's already had an effect. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12787739

In the meantime reports of firing from Pro-Gaddafi forces continue.

Edited March 18, 2011 by Daniel

[spooky lynx 73]

I was just saying that passing the resolution or do nothing, this week, I prefer the resolution

Let the people in those countries solve the problems by themselves - they will do it better than EU or NATO forces. Involvement of Europe or NATO will just increase casualties. Arabs can manage with their relations between themselves much better and faster than any of us. So don't bother them until you want to get another endless violence and anarchy like that in Iraq or Afghanistan.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Better to bomb Bahraini and Saudi armies. They do the same as Quaddafi. If EU is so concerned about human rights of arabs - it should bash not only another bad guy but all the regimes that violate right of its population.

Mmm...or maybe one day we should have a look at how human rights and democracy are respected in the former USSR republics.

[spooky lynx 73]

True. I'm sick of "have money and know some people=have rights" situation.

[whisper 0]

General worldwide disease for centuries, this, matey :)

[gossamersolid 155]

Mmm...or maybe one day we should have a look at how human rights and democracy are respected in the former USSR republics.

[maturin 12]

Let the people in those countries solve the problems by themselves - they will do it better than EU or NATO forces. Involvement of Europe or NATO will just increase casualties. Arabs can manage with their relations between themselves much better and faster than any of us. So don't bother them until you want to get another endless violence and anarchy like that in Iraq or Afghanistan.

As I recall, Afghanistan had plenty of its own endless anarchy already, unless you want to blame it all on the Soviets. And the war with Iraq is peanuts to the Iraq-Iran War.

Bahrain isn't being bombed because the West can ignore a few dozen deaths without too much anguish.

[spooky lynx 73]

As I recall, Afghanistan had plenty of its own endless anarchy already, unless you want to blame it all on the Soviets. And the war with Iraq is peanuts to the Iraq-Iran War.

Bahrain isn't being bombed because the West can ignore a few dozen deaths without too much anguish.

To be honest, Talibans were mad fanatics, but they controlled most of the country and weren't tolerate to drug-dealers. And they were the only serious force in the country. Earlier all governments in 1970-1990s tried to make country stable - either by their own forces or with soviet assistance.

West can ignore a few dozen deaths? So why does not it do this in Libya?

[concurssi 11]

Where have you been? Libya has gone beyond "a few dozen deaths".

[ProfTournesol 956]

@ GossamerSolid : wrong topic, this is the one you're looking for.

[Hans Ludwig 0]

Fighter jet shot down in Libyan rebel stronghold of Benghazi

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/03/19/libya.civil.war/index.html?hpt=T1

[walker 0]

Hi all

Mig 23?

Confirmed

Other video seems to show a missile hit but there is no smoke trace below the cloud. Air to Air missile? US already there taking them out from beyond visual range?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12794589

Kind Regards walker

Edited March 19, 2011 by walker