After Playing Arma on and off for a year.... An Opinion

[warcaster 10]

First of all, I want to give props for the dev team for the constant support for both Arma 2 and OA. The performance hitches that plagued launch have for the most part been largely dealt with. It's pleasant to see my unchanged computer being able to handle a lot more action that probably would resulted in crashes a year ago.

But....The AI....

It's still largely frustrating to work with. Vehicle pathing is still fubar...in several cases vehicles opting to run drive through trees when there are clear roads nearby. It becomes a chore when your convoy is too busy playing bumpercars with themselves. Don't get me started on Choppers.

Infantry AI has improved significantly....Props again, but is still in certain cases just as irritating as vehicle AI. Set a group to an assault a town, It'll do it beautifully with suppression and flanking techniques done better than I've ever seen. Tell that same group to defend that town however; and they will act as if sitting ducks in an ambush in every other occasional. Infantry AI can also be terribly sluggish or overly cautious when you want to move. In my opinion the "danger mode" should be tweaked to be a bit more fluid than it is right now.

In all honesty, I love this game and despite the extreme gripes, I wouldn't have bought OA if I hadn't thought Arma 2 even throughout it's hitches was bad. I kinda feel however the focus on DLC is a bad direction when there are so many problems with the singleplayer right now. New toys are always nice, but in the end I would much rather pay for a patch that fixed these problems than new units right now.

[Flash Thunder 10]

My thoughts are the same, most parts of the game that shipped with A2 need more polish like the handguns.

I would like to be able to play the game currently at decent settings at 30fps most the time its 20 or below and its with non decent settings and by decent i dont mean everything maxed or very high I mean normal settings without low fillrate since it makes the game blurry hell.

Im still going to bitch about graphics no matter if I could run max, the textures on hands are junk, Humans look like robots in arma 2, everything has a fake shine to it and overdone HDR bloom, all the constant LOD issues where it be buildings staying 2D right next to them to the trees and foilage being ugly blobs I dont think this will ever be fixed completely again this could be a my problem.

I feel that instead of making new units, improve the ones we already have, give them more detail, better textures, update them to OA standards, improve some of the areas of Arma 2 that felt rushed, I would love to see some weapon setup animations for launchers and overall I think BIS should spend alot of time on Artificial intelligence and the pathfinding indeed the driving is pretty bad.

Heres a quick year run down from me

Change graphical settings a Million times to find the sweet spot, do photography on max settings

constantly download awesome and high quality mods

patch patch patch

play around in Editor

Despite all my hates of this game and the engine and all the bugs I still feel like I got my moneys worth I had some really special moments in both games despite the performance issues and the fact that this game is really hard to keep updated with multiple friends.

Anyways i just hope BIS wont launch Arma 3 in a buggy state with features that feel rushed and uncooked.

[ffur2007slx2_5 11]

First of all, I want to give props for the dev team for the constant support for both Arma 2 and OA. The performance hitches that plagued launch have for the most part been largely dealt with. It's pleasant to see my unchanged computer being able to handle a lot more action that probably would resulted in crashes a year ago.

But....The AI....

It's still largely frustrating to work with. Vehicle pathing is still fubar...in several cases vehicles opting to run drive through trees when there are clear roads nearby. It becomes a chore when your convoy is too busy playing bumpercars with themselves. Don't get me started on Choppers.

Infantry AI has improved significantly....Props again, but is still in certain cases just as irritating as vehicle AI. Set a group to an assault a town, It'll do it beautifully with suppression and flanking techniques done better than I've ever seen. Tell that same group to defend that town however; and they will act as if sitting ducks in an ambush in every other occasional. Infantry AI can also be terribly sluggish or overly cautious when you want to move. In my opinion the "danger mode" should be tweaked to be a bit more fluid than it is right now.

In all honesty, I love this game and despite the extreme gripes, I wouldn't have bought OA if I hadn't thought Arma 2 even throughout it's hitches was bad. I kinda feel however the focus on DLC is a bad direction when there are so many problems with the singleplayer right now. New toys are always nice, but in the end I would much rather pay for a patch that fixed these problems than new units right now.

Yeah, you're right, this is not your problem but an issue that borthered both players and official so much since OFP published (I mean OFP, because it is the origin). Just like what BI CEO used to say that "Why their costumers become increasingly impatient to their works and eager to those bugs and not so satisfying performances being solved so immediately?"

I just mean that as players, we need to speak aloud about the weakness of BI works so that the game can be better, nevertheless, we need to understand BI's works as well as their decision. We need to be patient and believe those problems can be solved satisfactorily. We need to know that every one's demand to the game is different, just like an old Chinese sayings that it's hard to meet everyone's require.

BI tried, from so many betas we got the answer that the game will be perfect as we want!

As for DLCs, I think it's understandable, maybe there will not be enough financial and human support on fixing those bugs immediately without the bonus from selling DLCs, I believe you'll do the same decision if you're a member in BIS.:D

Edited November 28, 2010 by ffur2007slx2_5

[ArmAriffic 10]

yeah i think they should implant some of the user addons like the one that makes CQB possible and the non-blinding sun mod, ect

[Alwarren 2767]

and the non-blinding sun mod, ect

I actually like that the sun blinds you - makes it necessary to plan an approach to a target depending on daytime. I only wish sunglasses would counter it.

My biggest gripe with the AI driving is that there is no explicit convoy function. Having a convoy of multiple (especially different, like an APC and a few trucks) vehicles is next to impossible.

[gw01993 10]

i dont like using mods because they can cause problems with official updates/beta patches etc, but for Ai i would love to see either the ai zeus mod or the A.C.E mod implemented into an official update.

[Jockson 10]

I've been really trying to like ARMA 2 for about a year now but recently I went back to playing OFP and you know what? I'm not missing much. Sure, the game has improved in certain areas as it would be expected considering OFP came out a long time ago but there are still many frustrating issues that were present in OFP and still haven't been properly fixed, not to mention the game has become worse in quite a few aspects as well.

Perhaps one of my biggest gripes is strangely enough the graphics. Yes, the graphics do look very pretty in ARMA 2... on screenshots. Of all games, you'd think a mil sim would aim for more consistent graphics instead of being so "player centric". By that, I mean trees with a million polygons near you - paint smudges a bit further away. And what's worse, all those LODs don't switch instantly but rather with the painfully obvious morphing effect (which I explained why it's unnecessary in my thread in the suggestions forum). No matter how high FPS you have, when you use a scoped weapon every single bush and every single tree will slowly change its shape in motion. Not only is this ugly and kills immersion, it also gives you an impression you are running at very low FPS and your computer is struggling to load textures which isn't the case. This issue also seems to be becoming worse with each version. As harsh as it sounds, OA is a bit of a joke in this regard if I'm being honest. At maxed out settings, a small bush 50m in front of me morphs into a completely different shape when using the rmb zoom. Seriously?!

This is why, as odd as it sounds, I prefer OFP graphics. Sure, the game looks dated on the whole which is understandable, but the vegetation is effective and still looks decent, especially at longer range where the actual combat is done and there is virtually zero percievable LOD switching due to fewer LODs and no morphing implemented.

That's the direction I wish BIS would take in future patches/versions. More consistent graphics, go easy on super detailed vegetation if it means LOD and performance nightmare, don't focus on all the overdone HDR, bloom, blur etc effects that try to make the game look like a movie. Improve the AI, improve the pathfinding, make player control less clunky etc etc. I would very much rather pay for a new game that does that than one that mainly adds new content.

[Macadam Cow 1]

i dont like using mods because they can cause problems with official updates/beta patches etc, but for Ai i would love to see either the ai zeus mod or the A.C.E mod implemented into an official update.

This is not true, if you might have some error message running an addon it is not due to it conflicting with your game but most likely something the addon maker forgot to add (like textures,...)

I've been playing with mods since OFP and I've never experienced any problem.

Addons and mods might conflict between them but usually not with your game.

You can't imagine what you're missing by not using addons or mods.

[Second 0]

I've had ArmA2 some time maybe year by now, i can't bare it for longer than few hours. I've just tired to play it for couple of days but it turns out bad.

AI is an issue. They don't defend. They cover seeking ability and cover using ability are worse, close to minimal. Trying to set them to man stone wall and utilizing it as firing position leads to epic fail. Enemy probably walks into hand grenade distance and frags sh!t out of them. On move they manage to hide these issues better and intelligent scenario design might hide those issue almost totally. MOUT-abilities leave a lot to desire. I see little of hyped centimeter-system which was supposed to lead much more advanced AI... Yeah they lean sometimes behind objects.

Controls are issue... Or animations more like. I could bare it.

Terrain is an issue. Too open. User made maps with jungle or high grass seems to fail with finding balance between AI and player. Often AI sees thru foilage when player doesn't see.

I can see that ArmA is more and more moving into MP direction. Which is much easier for developers ofcourse.

Haven't touched OA. I'm pretty sure these issues aren't getting any better and i end up wasting my money. Buying Arma2 at mid-price did already feel like needless loss of money.

[Zipper5 74]

It's not hard to utilize the mission editor to build around Arma 2's remaining flaws. All it takes is time, patience and practice. That can be done now, the issues with the game can be fixed over time. ;)

[ProfTournesol 956]

Haven't touched OA. I'm pretty sure these issues aren't getting any better and i end up wasting my money. Buying Arma2 at mid-price did already feel like needless loss of money.

Funny that you're still posting here then.

[Fox '09 14]

yeah i think they should implant some of the user addons like the one that makes CQB possible and the non-blinding sun mod, ect

The shack tac one has wall collisions etc , it doesn't look too good in mp IMO

.

A solution - not a workaround - is what we need . Ie the ability to

Tilt your weapon up when at a wall, or move

The weapon away from the wall and not the person .

I run the shack tac add-on , it's great , but again it's not

A solution.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Why their consumers become increasingly impatient to their works and eager to those bugs and not so satisfying performances being solved so immediately?

Simple

- because they all like to enjoy the game - without workarounds

- because consumers can see how quickly the community fix+tweak stuff

- because consumers who played previous games from BIS can see which bugs/issues are still there - ingame

- because BIS have to run a business & make profit - regardless how anyone feels about it

- because there is no competitor in this milgame niche

[-DirTyDeeDs--Ziggy- 0]

Forum join date 2009+ ?

I stopped listening ...

:rolleyes:

[Flash Thunder 10]

-Ziggy-;1798943']Forum join date 2009+ ?

I stopped listening ...

:rolleyes:

This is cute not sure if this should be considered as spam.

because forum join date = the time you first started playing BIS games or Arma 2 :j:

[Dallas 9]

The shack tac one has wall collisions etc ' date=' it doesn't look too good in mp IMO

.

A solution - not a workaround - is what we need . Ie the ability to

Tilt your weapon up when at a wall, or move

The weapon away from the wall and not the person .

I run the shack tac add-on , it's great , but again it's not

A solution.[/quote']

I do this by lowering my weapon.

[-DirTyDeeDs--Ziggy- 0]

being bluntly honest, what I meant to imply is that I value less a persons opinion from more recent community members, compared to those that have been through a longer experience with this game series.

I don't think they fully appreciate what this game offers.

I'm well aware that the forum changed to cause some members to re-register with a new account, and many have been playing longer than their join date indicate.

Edited November 28, 2010 by [DirTyDeeDs]-Ziggy-

[warcaster 10]

-Ziggy-;1799054']being bluntly honest' date=' what I meant to imply is that I value less a persons opinion from more recent community members, compared to those that have been through a longer experience with this game series.

I don't think they fully appreciate what this game offers.

I'm well aware that the forum changed to cause some members to re-register with a new account, and many have been playing longer than their join date indicate.[/quote']

I don't really see so much the basis of this argument. If you perhaps read through my post, I think you would have understood I really enjoyed the game for the most part. I know there is plenty more to this game that's open for me to experience, but I've arguably seen enough. I mean just the flaws in the AI are quite obvious from the start, and as have others implied, been improved upon through mods within the community. I just want to see Bistudios though focus on this issue particularly.

If it really takes more than a year of gaming to give constructive criticism, then maybe this is something larger than I've realized. Maybe there has been progress within the series that I wasn't around to notice.

Edited November 28, 2010 by warcaster

[Sinzan 10]

I thought your post was concise, and above all, constructive.

Cuto's

[-DirTyDeeDs--Ziggy- 0]

Maybe there has been progress within the series that I wasn't around to notice.

yeah. :rolleyes:

[hund 0]

Some people have played the game for much longer than they've been a part of this jolly community of miscreants. For instance, I started playing in 2001 but had to reason to pipe in until whenever it was that I joined (the reason being that I had to ask an editing question because I wanted to make a CSLA2 mission for the glorious OFP.info server). Up until that point I just ghosted the forums.

So your method of disregarding peoples opinions based on join dates might be a bit imperfect, and also a tad childish.

Just sayin', ya know?

EDIT: It was 2006! :D

[ffur2007slx2_5 11]

Yeah, you should know that the age I start playing OFP in 2001 is 11 years old, my English is not so good to post here like today, so I usually visit Chinese BIgames forum.

When I found that most of my opinions and questions can not get proper agreement or answers I decide to join official forum to meet more senior BIS players!

[twisted 128]

Who gives damn about when a person joined if they bring up relevant points?

OP makes an interesting couple points. Have heard similar repeated for years now. Still relevant for all that though.

I have been trying to convince a person to buy arma2AO, but that person bought arma on my recommendation and now is extremely reluctant to get arma2. that sucks, cause the game is much more fluid and less buggy. But there are still the standout issues that bring the game down needlessly and once bitten people seem to focus on these things that grate.

yes the popping LODs is an irritation.

But I feel that polishing of the game and the way the player interfaces with the game world would be a huge help.

for example, a new way of giving orders and more 'human' type of orders would help. when i read the first post i wondered how the heck do you give AI command to assault or to defend? unless in the editor? But i can say to any human stay behind this wall and defend this building and they will understand it. Bringing this to Arma2+ would be a huge boon.

and that's just one example. Polishing the AI a shitload is also of paramount importance. And doing this changes in not such an offhand and less-than-obvious manner because right now it's hard to say if the AI is better of worse or the same from one beta to the next.

arma2 would benefit from lots of polish and adding evolutionary innovations in AI, UI, animations, etc that make the game feel more modern and accessible. And while not exactly ideal, I'd gladly finance this by buying DLC every 4 months or so.

PS - cough, and what about an easy to work 3d editor that fits in well with the current 2D editor. cough.

[-DirTyDeeDs--Ziggy- 0]

I myself played in 2002 only to join the forums much later. I understand your point.

It doesn't change my opinion though. If you haven't experienced this series long and are posting complaints and comparisons, I disregard them.

Do I 'judge a book by its cover' ? sometimes. when I don't like the story. ;)

Honestly, the OP made well thought out points.

This game is more complex then new people realize, and dare I say some long time community members forget from time to time.

I don't know of a game developer who supports its product better, or for longer, than BIS. If there is, I haven't been made aware of it.

Edited November 29, 2010 by [DirTyDeeDs]-Ziggy-

[Second 0]

It's not hard to utilize the mission editor to build around Arma 2's remaining flaws. All it takes is time, patience and practice. That can be done now, the issues with the game can be fixed over time. ;)

There is little to be done with intelligent mission design for defending AI. Give them terrain with cover which they can use as firing position and they fail to utilize that. Most often they just lie down behind it and will not rise up to shoot.

Only way to make them look like they follow some actual drill is that they are ungrouped and hand placed into terrain, preferably with hand placed cover. But the problem doesn't go away as they still are unable to use that cover as firing positions AND cover (pop up to fire few rounds and get down behind cover to evade hits to self) . So in the end this is not only time consuming (reason why no body uses it ;) ) but also uneffective. It cuts them off from their unit and shared situational awareness which drops their combat multiplier alot. It also limits missions designing possibilities quite lot because it can't be used in dynamic fashion. Like unit moves to terrain, overruns small enemy unit holding that particular terrain and after it starts to defend to repel enemy counter attack.

Common problem since days of OFP. This far little has improved it seems. And this requires AI to hold basic knowledge how to utilize firing positions... But ArmA2 AI doesnt' have that in it's toolbox. So it ends up being fish on the dry land.

ProfTournesol:

Funny that you're still posting here then.

Bravo! Such intelligent and daring post :j:

Reason A. I've bought 3 products from BIS.

Reason B. These are open forums.

Reason C. I've have opinion about this which i see very solid.

Edited November 29, 2010 by Second