ARMA 2, version 1.08 - Patch Released.

[Dwarden 1124]

the VB of vegetation in A1 is different to A2 and was even further improved in OA

you can see the comparsion of it between A1 and A2 here

http://www.bistudio.com/index.php/company/developers-blog/87-arma2-vegetation-progress-2

more screens e.g.

http://pro.bistudio.com/index.php/services/linda-tree-generator/theoretic-background.html

[wipman 1]

Hi, about the vegetation, grass included...

- Those pines don't share the same light values than the grass or the objects, sometimes is the grass what don't share the light values with the rest of the enviroment, the ground... bushes... and objects like vehicles or units.

- As can be seen there... some (most) of the pines don't get afected by the light conditions so they appear almost black in some ocasions they appear as true black.

- The reflection on the Aimpoint's back lense at certain day times still entirely screwed up as can be seen there, unabling you to aim with it, if you choose to not have the crossair... you couldn't fireback at the NME.

And i can confirm that the AI (own and NME) can see through bushes, threes, fallen threes and also through the grass.

After replay again the Into The Storm mission (3Rd Campaign mission) i didn't get stunk after talk with Valentina; so it may had been a casual bug. Let's C ya

[maturin 12]

the VB of vegetation in A1 is different to A2 and was even further improved in OA

you can see the comparsion of it between A1 and A2 here

http://www.bistudio.com/index.php/company/developers-blog/87-arma2-vegetation-progress-2

So is there a percent change that an AI rifleman will see a motionless, silent soldier through a house?

[Vultar 0]

So is there a percent change that an AI rifleman will see a motionless, silent soldier through a house?

From what I know, AI cant see a prone, silent soldier even when running next to him.

Check it out, place yourself on the open field, go prone and watch as russian patrol just runs next to you.

Edited November 14, 2010 by Vultar

[NoRailgunner 0]

- the gunner/commander AI shooting on abandoned vehicles bug till its destroyed is still there - just strange because the AI keep on shooting on those abandoned vehicles with machineguns instead of switching to the main gun. You can see this bug in default "Counterattack" (Elektrozavodsk) mission.

- AI driving over their own soldiers but braking suddenly for animals

- AI still waste AT ammo on one single soldier (AI should only target+shoot with OG-7 and HEDP ammo on a group of 3-5 soldiers)

- ****TO TRANSLATE**** is back

all tested on default (without mods/addons) with OA 1.55 patch + arma2.exe

[NeMeSiS 11]

So is there a percent change that an AI rifleman will see a motionless, silent soldier through a house?

That is not what he said at all. :rolleyes:

AFAIK there is no chance involved, while i just took a piss i decided to make a list in my mind of what effects the spotting that i think to know.

First of all when it comes to objects, you are being spotted or not, you cannot be half spotted. I think that in practice this means that if your elbow sticks out the AI will react like you are being completely exposed

If you are being spotted the knowsabout value of the observer about you goes up until it reaches a certain treshold where you are recognized as an enemy soldier, at which point you will be engaged.

The speed in which this treshold is reached depends on (What i remember):

-Distance

-Speed of observed

-Speed of observer

-Stance

-Groundtype (=Grass)

-Noise of movement (I think there is a value for this in the config)

-Weapons (Sound of being fired and the light they emit when fired)

-Time of day (NVgoggles will negate the effect of darkness)

-Sensitivity values of the observer in the config (Snipers/SF usually better at seeing and hearing)

-Skill set in mission editor and difficulty menu

EDIT: When the AI loses track of you they will estimate your current position based on your last know speed and direction, the AI also keeps in mind how accurate their guess is, and for every x amount of time they know that their estimation can be off by y meters. (The 'neartargets' command will return this value, i dont know how it is used by the AI)

After a while the knowsabout value drops to 0 and the AI just forgets about you.

Edited November 14, 2010 by NeMeSiS

[maturin 12]

All those variables are going to simply change the probabilities on a dice roll, ultimately.

But if the engine can analyze the geometry of an object with viewblock, why not make the chance modifier 100%?

[NeMeSiS 11]

All those variables are going to simply change the probabilities on a dice roll, ultimately.

But if the engine can analyze the geometry of an object with viewblock, why not make the chance modifier 100%?

Did you even read what i said?

[maturin 12]

Did you even read what i said?

Yes, I read it. I was pointing out that yes, clearly there is chance involved. Various factors skew it one way or the other, just like in real life. How else can you have tanks spotting each other from 2000m one day and remaining oblivious to each other under 50m another?

(Seriously, vehicles can be notoriously numb to each other at close ranges. I've gone hoarse screaming at my gunner to aim at the BMP that nearly just rammed us, while the AI spotter hidden inside my player character doesn't see it either.)

And none of those factors have anything to do with view occluding objects.

[NeMeSiS 11]

Yes, I read it. I was pointing out that yes, clearly there is chance involved. Various factors skew it one way or the other, just like in real life. How else can you have tanks spotting each other from 2000m one day and remaining oblivious to each other under 50m another?

(Seriously, vehicles can be notoriously numb to each other at close ranges. I've gone hoarse screaming at my gunner to aim at the BMP that nearly just rammed us, while the AI spotter hidden inside my player character doesn't see it either.)

And none of those factors have anything to do with view occluding objects.

Good. Let me just quote myself.

there is no chance involved

First of all when it comes to objects, you are being spotted or not, you cannot be half spotted

If you are being spotted

*bunch of factors deciding the speed in which you will be recognized, not the chance*

Also not how i used both recogninzed and spotted in this sentence, this is because they are not the same thing

If you still dont get it i can make you a flowchart. :D

EDIT: Let me also directly answer your question:

How else can you have tanks spotting each other from 2000m one day and remaining oblivious to each other under 50m another?

Through the power of hyperbole.

Edited November 15, 2010 by NeMeSiS

[Carl_D 10]

@ nemesis

That is not what he said at all. :rolleyes:

AFAIK there is no chance involved, while i just took a piss i decided to make a list in my mind of what effects the spotting that i think to know.

First of all when it comes to objects, you are being spotted or not, you cannot be half spotted. I think that in practice this means that if your elbow sticks out the AI will react like you are being completely exposed

If you are being spotted the knowsabout value of the observer about you goes up until it reaches a certain treshold where you are recognized as an enemy soldier, at which point you will be engaged.

The speed in which this treshold is reached depends on (What i remember):

-Distance

-Speed of observed

-Speed of observer

-Stance

-Groundtype (=Grass)

-Noise of movement (I think there is a value for this in the config)

-Weapons (Sound of being fired and the light they emit when fired)

-Time of day (NVgoggles will negate the effect of darkness)

-Sensitivity values of the observer in the config (Snipers/SF usually better at seeing and hearing)

-Skill set in mission editor and difficulty menu

That's how I understand it (you forgot the "camo" variable - IIRC the lower that is set, the harder it is for an AI to spot the unit).

EDIT: When the AI loses track of you they will estimate your current position based on your last know speed and direction, the AI also keeps in mind how accurate their guess is, and for every x amount of time they know that their estimation can be off by y meters. (The 'neartargets' command will return this value, i dont know how it is used by the AI)

After a while the knowsabout value drops to 0 and the AI just forgets about you.

Also exactly as I understand it. I also believe that to be the reason that target rings sometimes rush around at ludicrous speeds when the target is behind cover or concealment, and/or jump sometimes 100 m or more when the enemy moves out.

Thank you for the video links - nice :)

Maybe I was unclear - I don't believe the AI "sees" through grass or bushes, let alone more solid objects. I only play SP (limited to crap mobile connection) and sometimes an AI commander will allocate a target that is 400 or 500 m away & completely out of line-of-sight for any team member. This occurs in missions where one's team is the only BLUFOR force on the map, so it isn't intel from another friendly team or unit. Even 'your own' AI sometimes detects enemies just on the other side of a hill that are not actually visible even with a scope or binoculars, and I observe that even in solo missions or forays. That's maybe just some imprecision in whatever routine deals with topography? I assume - obviously with no direct evidence - that enemy AIs can detect me in a similar way (I would be very pleased to be wrong on that!).

That may or may not be related to an enemy spotting me from the other side of a wall. I should have said that this sort of event happens quite rarely; which led me to think that in some way there is a low-frequency chance of spotting or being spotted despite all the viewblocking & so on.

@Dwarden: thanks for the link. I can't say I understand all the terminology, programming is definitely not one of my skills, but I get the gist. There's a lot of material in the blog that I haven't read yet.

I'm going to shut up on this issue partly as I think I need to understand much more of the basics, but mostly it's getting too much off-topic for this thread.

Ciao

Carl

[NeMeSiS 11]

@ nemesis

That's how I understand it (you forgot the "camo" variable - IIRC the lower that is set, the harder it is for an AI to spot the unit).

Yes i did, you are correct.

Maybe I was unclear - I don't believe the AI "sees" through grass or bushes, let alone more solid objects. I only play SP (limited to crap mobile connection) and sometimes an AI commander will allocate a target that is 400 or 500 m away & completely out of line-of-sight for any team member. This occurs in missions where one's team is the only BLUFOR force on the map, so it isn't intel from another friendly team or unit. Even 'your own' AI sometimes detects enemies just on the other side of a hill that are not actually visible even with a scope or binoculars, and I observe that even in solo missions or forays. That's maybe just some imprecision in whatever routine deals with topography? I assume - obviously with no direct evidence - that enemy AIs can detect me in a similar way (I would be very pleased to be wrong on that!).

That may or may not be related to an enemy spotting me from the other side of a wall. I should have said that this sort of event happens quite rarely; which led me to think that in some way there is a low-frequency chance of spotting or being spotted despite all the viewblocking & so on.

@Dwarden: thanks for the link. I can't say I understand all the terminology, programming is definitely not one of my skills, but I get the gist. There's a lot of material in the blog that I haven't read yet.

I'm going to shut up on this issue partly as I think I need to understand much more of the basics, but mostly it's getting too much off-topic for this thread.

Ciao

Carl

I always assumed such errors are related to hearing (AI can hear you walking through walls as well, but i thought that Suma once said that they need to have visual identification to know you are an enemy though, but i cannot find that post and the damn forum wont let me search for 'AI' which makes searching for this very annoying, maybe i am just mistaken)

[Carl_D 10]

I always assumed such errors are related to hearing (AI can hear you walking through walls as well, but i thought that Suma once said that they need to have visual identification to know you are an enemy though, but i cannot find that post and the damn forum wont let me search for 'AI' which makes searching for this very annoying, maybe i am just mistaken)

I was lying still when the Spetsnaz team spotted me through the wall. It occurs to me that there might have been another enemy unit(s) just over the brow of the hill that I couldn't see but could 'see' me & alerted the nearby unit.

Re search: that's a common limitation in (probably) licensed search engines, otherwise smaller servers just choke. Go to Google or whatever, & enter terms like (including the quotes!) the following:

"AI blah" site:http://forums.bistudio.com

where blah is whatever you want, & that will return some results. I don't know why, but it seems to find only partial results - still, better than nothing.

Ciao

Carl

---------- Post added at 12:43 ---------- Previous post was at 12:37 ----------

- AI still waste AT ammo on one single soldier (AI should only target+shoot with OG-7 and HEDP ammo on a group of 3-5 soldiers)

Still there in A2 satndalone v1.08. Easy to fix with Zipper5's neat little mod zp5_at_fix, though :)

Cheers

Carl

[wipman 1]

Hi, the problem with any addon AI fix/improvement... is that it's just that, an addon; and you gonna be kicked almost for sure from any public server because you've an addon that the server don't allows or have. Happens the same with the FPS improver addons... most of the public servers don't allow you to use 'em, so they don't fix nothing; because they only work on SP, not in MP, even if they're not damn cheats and only improve the performance client side. So the addon fixes are not really an entire fix. Let's C ya

[Carl_D 10]

@Dwarden

Hope this isn't the wrong place for this post, apologies if so.

Because of some odd glitches I decided to do a full reinstall then use the latest patch to go straight to v1.08. I saw some gross distortions in benchmark 2. On simply starting the game and then exiting, the .rpt file looks like this:

=====================================================================

== G:\ARMA II\arma2.exe

== "G:\ARMA II\arma2.exe" -nosplash -world=empty

=====================================================================

Exe timestamp: 2010/11/15 16:33:26

Current time: 2010/11/15 17:13:55

Version 1.08.74450

Item str_disp_server_control listed twice

Updating base class G36C->Rifle, by vops_c_guns\config.cpp/cfgWeapons/MG36/

Error 15 reading file 'w:\c\poseidon\lib\d3d9\ShaderSources_3_0\PS.hlsl'

Error 15 reading file 'w:\c\poseidon\lib\d3d9\ShaderSources_3_0\PS.h'

Error 15 reading file 'w:\c\poseidon\lib\d3d9\ShaderSources_3_0\PSBasic.hlsl'

Error 15 reading file 'w:\c\poseidon\lib\d3d9\ShaderSources_3_0\PSBasicSSSM.hlsl'

Error 15 reading file 'w:\c\poseidon\lib\d3d9\ShaderSources_3_0\PSSR_Default.hlsl'

Error 15 reading file 'w:\c\poseidon\lib\d3d9\ShaderSources_3_0\PSSR_nVidia.hlsl'

Error 15 reading file 'w:\c\poseidon\lib\d3d9\ShaderSources_3_0\psvs.h'

Error 15 reading file 'w:\c\poseidon\lib\d3d9\ShaderSources_3_0\common.h'

Error 15 reading file 'w:\c\poseidon\lib\d3d9\ShaderSources_3_0\PS.hlsl'

Error 15 reading file 'w:\c\poseidon\lib\d3d9\ShaderSources_3_0\PS.hlsl'

Error 15 reading file 'w:\c\poseidon\lib\d3d9\ShaderSources_3_0\VS.h'

Error 15 reading file 'w:\c\poseidon\lib\d3d9\ShaderSources_3_0\VS.hlsl'

Error 15 reading file 'w:\c\poseidon\lib\d3d9\ShaderSources_3_0\VSTerrain.hlsl'

Error 15 reading file 'w:\c\poseidon\lib\d3d9\ShaderSources_3_0\VSSprite.hlsl'

Error 15 reading file 'w:\c\poseidon\lib\d3d9\ShaderSources_3_0\VSPoint.hlsl'

Error 15 reading file 'w:\c\poseidon\lib\d3d9\ShaderSources_3_0\VSWater.hlsl'

Error 15 reading file 'w:\c\poseidon\lib\d3d9\ShaderSources_3_0\VSShore.hlsl'

Error 15 reading file 'w:\c\poseidon\lib\d3d9\ShaderSources_3_0\VSTerrainGrass.hlsl'

Error 15 reading file 'w:\c\poseidon\lib\d3d9\ShaderSources_3_0\VSShadowVolume.hlsl'

Error 15 reading file 'w:\c\poseidon\lib\d3d9\ShaderSources_3_0\VSCalmWater.hlsl'

Error 15 reading file 'w:\c\poseidon\lib\d3d9\ShaderSources_3_0\VSTerrain.hlsl'

Error 15 reading file 'w:\c\poseidon\lib\d3d9\ShaderSources_3_0\VSTerrain.hlsl'

Error 15 reading file 'w:\c\poseidon\lib\d3d9\ShaderSources_3_0\VSTerrain.hlsl'

Error 15 reading file 'w:\c\poseidon\lib\d3d9\ShaderSources_3_0\VSTerrain.hlsl'

Error 15 reading file 'w:\c\poseidon\lib\d3d9\ShaderSources_3_0\VSTerrainGrass.hlsl'

Error 15 reading file 'w:\c\poseidon\lib\d3d9\ShaderSources_3_0\VSTerrainGrass.hlsl'

Error 15 reading file 'w:\c\poseidon\lib\d3d9\ShaderSources_3_0\VSTerrainGrass.hlsl'

Error 15 reading file 'w:\c\poseidon\lib\d3d9\ShaderSources_3_0\VSTerrainGrass.hlsl'

Error 15 reading file 'w:\c\poseidon\lib\d3d9\ShaderSources_3_0\VSShadowVolume.hlsl'

Error 15 reading file 'w:\c\poseidon\lib\d3d9\ShaderSources_3_0\VSShadowVolume.hlsl'

Error 15 reading file 'w:\c\poseidon\lib\d3d9\ShaderSources_3_0\FPShaders.hlsl'

Error 15 reading file 'w:\c\poseidon\lib\d3d9\ShaderSources_3_0\FPShaders.hlsl'

Error 15 reading file 'w:\c\poseidon\lib\d3d9\ShaderSources_3_0\PS.hlsl'

Tried searching for various parts of the string but seems to defeat the BI search engine, returning large numbers of threads some of which were obviously irrelevant & other which returned a no-results answer to thread search. Ask & Google didn't return anything.

Is this just a glitch in the installation or patching?TIA

Carl

Tuesday 16 Nov.: Please disregard the above. This evening, my PC having been turned off last night, those errors have disappeared, & more importantly so have the distortions. I assume rebooting cleaned out some junk from somewhere. Cheers, Carl

Edited November 16, 2010 by Carl_D
Additional information

[maturin 12]

*bunch of factors deciding the speed in which you will be recognized, not the chance*

You're just saying that. Where is your evidence?

It also makes no bloody sense. Carl D was claiming that AI can occasionally spot enemies through hills and villages because spotting is procedurally generated. If there is no chance involved, and various factors only affect the time it takes for a target to be spotted, then this glitchy behavior would occur every time or never. Everything would always play out the same, given identical conditions. And if anything is true of this game, things are not always the same.

Through the power of hyperbole.

Not hyperbole but personal experience, if you want to slightly decrease the first number and increase the second.

And I didn't read your post too carefully because most of it is a bullet list of things I already know, about things I wasn't talking about. Speed of movement has nothing to with the viewblock properties of a bush.

Edited November 15, 2010 by maturin

[wipman 1]

Hi, a silly question, where was the .rpt file saved?, i don't remember it... . Let's C ya

[Zipper5 74]

If you have Vista or Windows 7, it should be:

C:\Users\<your name>\AppData\Local\ArmA 2 OA\arma2oa.rpt

And if you have XP, it's:

C:\Documents and Settings\<your name>\Local Settings\Application Data\ArmA 2 OA\arma2oa.rpt

Those folders will be hidden, so you'll either have to manually enter that destination, or tell Explorer to show hidden files.

[AnimalMother92 10]

Hmm, Steam already updated me to 1.08 but now it's downloading 715.2mb. :confused:

[wipman 1]

Hi, some more bugs, i think that some were there on the v1.07 too.

- LOD trashed fellas:

- You use to see that everytime that you turn your back, and your mates, not only on that certain campaign mission... on most if not all the campaign missions.

- BTR-90 wheeless:

- I'd seen that when the BRT was driving away from my possition, when it came back to blow me up in pieces with it's AGS-30... it had all the wheels.

- Weird thing:

- When those doors are destroyed by explosive ammo they are displayed like that, instead appear fallen, that's what happens when you collide with 'em with a vehicle.

- Innacurate buildings geometry:

- As you see there... the dot of the Kobra was where i was aiming, and those red rulers mark the thing, the top's one marks where i was aiming and the one below it, marks where the bullets were really hitting (in the middle of the air); i was like 3m away from that building's corner.

- Headless Spetznat:

- At certain distance... like +225m more or less... the head model (and it's texture) dissapears and you only see the floating red beret of the Spetznat T.Leader, looking weird. No matters if you're aiming down the sights or not, passing the 225m more or less, his head dissapears unless the beret. Let's C ya

---------- Post added at 09:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:55 PM ----------

Hi, another bug on the v1.08 that i'd forget to mention; if you have a FIM-92 Stinger on the hands and you open an ammo/equipment box... the gear menu dissapear as you move the mouse, this don't happens with the M136 or the SMAW. Let's C ya

[maturin 12]

- As you see there... the dot of the Kobra was where i was aiming, and those red rulers mark the thing, the top's one marks where i was aiming and the one below it, marks where the bullets were really hitting (in the middle of the air); i was like 3m away from that building's corner.

The bullets were hitting the right place relative to the reticule, but that building has had inaccurate geometry since release.

[wipman 1]

The bullets were hitting the right place relative to the reticule, but that building has had inaccurate geometry since release.

Hi, yeah.. but the same happens with many many other buildings and world's objects, and seems to only happen from the player's perspective; on that screenshot is not clear, but there was an AI right behind the Kobra sight's dot and he'd killed me with a pair of shots.

Same thing or closer happens too when an AI tank/IFV is behind a bush, the AI shoots trough the bush without hit it, when i do the same... i always hit the bush tearing it down and the AI shoots me back trough the resoulting smoke.

In the case of the buildings and world's objects the AI goes right to the corner and expose almost all their body instead as you'll (you should) do it, a few metter back and with the right angle to take down your target and then turn back and do cover fire from the other side of the building/object on the other targets arround the target that you've taken down.

Anyway... i just take as a bug the inacurrate Geo LOD of many buildings and object, overall because they only seem to affect the player and not the AI. Let's C ya

[maturin 12]

Hi, yeah.. but the same happens with many many other buildings and world's objects, and seems to only happen from the player's perspective; on that screenshot is not clear, but there was an AI right behind the Kobra sight's dot and he'd killed me with a pair of shots.

Same thing or closer happens too when an AI tank/IFV is behind a bush, the AI shoots trough the bush without hit it, when i do the same... i always hit the bush tearing it down and the AI shoots me back trough the resoulting smoke.

In the case of the buildings and world's objects the AI goes right to the corner and expose almost all their body instead as you'll (you should) do it, a few metter back and with the right angle to take down your target and then turn back and do cover fire from the other side of the building/object on the other targets arround the target that you've taken down.

Anyway... i just take as a bug the inacurrate Geo LOD of many buildings and object, overall because they only seem to affect the player and not the AI. Let's C ya

Your bullets are probably penetrating that thin corner of masonry, of course. And your head and arms are sticking out, so no wonder the AI shot you.

And solid shot goes through bushes while HE does not (always). And trees are a mixture of hard parts and branches without collision that block vision.

[cody4651 10]

Has information for the server patch to 1.08 been released in any shape or form?

[scale 10]

Some Problems about the patch:

I use German Game Version.

If i host an own server and join a mission like "if diplomacy failed" then when the todos come i have in map screen in my todo description ****to translate *****

This problem is with Arma 2 1.08 vanila and Arma OA 1.55 in my German Version on an win 7 64 bit and an other xp computer.

Edit: I always habe big patch problems on my Win7 64bit, core i7, 8GB ram. The Arma2 patch from 1.00 to 1.08 gives much delta patch errors if i want patch a 1.00 version. Source Data are okay and not corrupted. These problems are not on my xp machine. Have other no problems patching with win64 bit?

Edit 2: Delta Patch errors comes only if patch is on drive c: and gameinstall is on drive c:

If Gameinstall is on drive e: , no problem here.

Edited November 25, 2010 by scale