bad benson

yea the beauty of it is though that it comes with several templates like a basic shooter (and many others) with netcode and stuff. so it actually comes down to modding rather than "from scratch", if you are like me and just want a solid sandbox. in that case it's like modding the base of an FPS inlcuding full source and without all the stuff you don't need. it even has basic AI. i personally am just playing around too though. same as i did in arma. just without limits that make no sense :p

well. it depends on what you want to do. if you want to do what you see mostly on armaholic (units, weapons, vehicles, missions) that is mostly adding to the military base game and if you like arma as a game a lot then you're good. but if you just want to make cool stuff and are into making games then you should look into unreal engine 4. it's kind of mind blowing what it can do compared to unreal engine 3. and with its new blueprint system, prototyping is now as easy as it is in unity. i'm not sure if it was the dayZ hype or the general enlargement of game worlds over the years but now finally, after already having fun with udk in the past but having felt limited in terms of size, it really supports large worlds. much more so than unity. i did some tests with unity and you can feel that there's a lot of work invovled to make it work on a bigger scale and still look good and run well. i just started looking into UE4 recently but even AI developement seems very nice (node based like the editor script language "blueprint"). so you can make your own behaviour trees and stuff. but to me the best parts are the mentioned world size and draw distance and also the fact that you get full access to the source and core coding is now done in c++. anyways. that's kinda off-topic. i just can recommend anyone, who is more ambitious than what modding clunky and limited arma can do, to look into UE4. the pricing is pretty amazing too. kind of an indie dev's wet dream :D

so far this is just PR-fu. sadly what kju described there in detail is the reality. arma doesn't have outstanding mod support. it just is one fo the few games that has it at all these days. and considering how all the core issues with tools, docu and the game data itself (config structure and core system moddability...*cough...attachment system...cough*) persist over the years, it blows my mind how little the game itself has progressed. you would think that by not focussing on modding so much there'd be a lot of resources to push the core game much further. this is so spot on (that it hurts :D) and exactly mirrors my personal view on things and experience over the years. it is very apparent just from looking at the configs and each new feature that is added. how most systems are set up. how certain things are locked down in places that can't be modded without replacing bin.pbo (basically making your copy invalid for MP play afaik). this highlights the core problem and basically the essence of what kju said. the deeper you dig and the longer you do it the more you realise that the problem is not simply that the game itself is flawed but that even after so many years and at a point where they even do something like the contest, they have surprisingly not much regard for what modders really need. so then combined with the base game itself also lacking is what made me personally finally accept that i'm wasting my time with this "platform".

the problem there is that grenade throwing, afaik, is a gesture in arma 3 rather than a full body anim like in previous titles. so this is pretty hard to fix just with anim config values. you can see the same happenng with reload gestures. it's the way animation masks work in this engine which makes it a chore to work with gestures and fix these issues. i'm pretty sure that he just fixed the aiming masks for the anims where you can not shoot your rifle anyways. i haven't tested it but it sounds like it. so actually aiming should not be influenced. it's more of a visual polish kind of thing. i really like the idea. i mean it's honestly the devs' job but we also have mods to make simple actions like opening doors actually work so who cares, right? :p

seeing the discussion about an icon i thought one could have the camera zoom in very slightly but almost instantly. another option could be the in resting mods widely used camera shake (short pronounced shake at the start of resting). or maybe a vignette on the edge of the screen. although that could be interfering with existing vignette effects and also would probably need to be very pronounced to be noticable. anyways. just some ideas.

yes indeed. bullshit it is for sure. much like you ignoring the actual complaint being all *shrug* "we are talking about SOMETHING so this is totally worth it. but i guess to some people any type of back and forth bla bla is called a constructive and worthwhile discussion. you would think it's in the interest of the mods to support the latter instead of doing shit like this here. we both know that all this is is an act of defiance against complaints in general. fair enough i guess. i'll stfu up now so this thread can die the quick death it deserves.

that's bullshit. imagine a thread being created from every off-topic post or opinion. the point is that seba's post is just a small rant about something. it has no content that allows proper discussion from it. that is very apparent from the thread title, the new one too, trying really hard to fix that. besides. the "original" title shows much better what really happened here. seba was talking about people's way of acting and not mods vs engine implementation. just pointing out that he might like mods better doesn't mean someone has to create a thread from his post to express their personal butthurt about it. changing the title now doesn't hide the reason this thread was created. everyone who saw the first title will agree that someone who disagrees with seba's opinion is just fooling around here. i'd suggest that someone just closes this thread. it would be the mature thing to do.

absolutely agree. also absolutely agree. i'm pretty sure that seba's point was about those sit/op/wetf - reps where the "designers" talk about these features like they were a logical consequence from their focussed design plans when it's pretty obvious that these are simply features the community hasn't only been requesting for ages, since they are needed to make the game feel more rounded and less lacking of balanced game design, but also has been doing the work of prototyping them basically. and while i give less fucks about arma or any of this every day i have to agree with him there. gives you a sense of them having some kind of false pride not admitting they are basically giving people what they have been requesting from them. could've even been a good thing for PR. "look we are working closely with our community". that being said, who gives a fuck really? it's obvious that these are the statements they prepare for public consumption hence them being so sleek/ out of touch. the real problem here is the existence of this thread. there is nothing to discuss really. seba just voiced his opinion about an aspect of BI's PR style somewhere. he didn't ask for this discussion nor the discussion this was turned into. and the new title has even less to do with his initial post. this almost feels like some cowardly attempt at making him look stupid by someone who can't take criticism... :p

man. i really never get tired of seeing ported semi high poly car models from other games with shitty textures and materials that don't do the actual models justice at all. it gives you that kind of amateur guerilla modding flair. really digging it. same goes for the terrain. that feeling of spit barely keeping everything together makes my heart beat faster in excitement. it only means that there is an infinitely large room for improvement. which can only be a good thing, right? keep it up guys. can't wait for more.

yea sorry about that. i think Ruppert must've missed the key when packing the files. we'll do a quick hot fix soon with all the little things discussed before. there will be a key included too.

nope. sorry. the patch will be there as soon as possible. it's not really relying on that thing tbh. more on my motivation. i'm sorry to say that there will only be one more patch to iron out the most problematic bugs to get this into a more stable state again. i'm in the progress of quitting arma modding altogether. right now i'm redownloading arma 3 to finish this patch. have to reinstall everything after a windows reinstall. after playing around with this engine for years now i wouldn't say i have mastered it but i have played with pretty much every aspect you can mod and i'd say i know all i need to know to say that this isn't worth my time anymore. there's too many problems with the game and too many things that make it a chore to mod and all it does to me is kill my creativity. wanting to achieve very simple things you always end up doing stupid hacks to work your way around in this game. and then it'll still turnout shitty and far below its potential. it's a little bit like with bohemia games in general (arma and dayZ. have yet to test take on mars. looks refreshingly nice though). it could be amazing but it just isn't. i'm just tired of making proofs of concept and always having to say that certain things will never work properly "cuz arma". i know there are flaws in my work and i'm not trying to blame others for them. i'm talking about the very core foundation which eats up my last bit of motivation to even fix my own shit. i've been postboning updating the animations with more pretty ones for ages since i just can't motivate myself to put in the work just to see my character glitch out most of the time making it useless basically. i just realised that my goals are always not really realistic considering what engine i'm working with. as long as character collision and overall interaction with the environment will be as glitchy (not to mention simply roadway lods missing from a shitload of models that i can't/am not allowed to edit) things like climbing will never be "proper". arma is simply "ok" at exactly what it does. nothing more. if you want to go just an inch too far beyond that you are in for a lot of frustration. i won't even start talking about mine and ruppert's raptors... :D ... sorry about this rant but i felt it'd be the right thing to let everyone know and keep their expectations low for the future. this might seem sudden but i made this decision a while ago. anyways. arma is at 40%. so stay tuned for the patch soonish :p

i'll release a patch for that very soon. waiting for an engine fix for or me finding out a good way around a certain issue.

everyone take a step back and take an honest look at this. doors are a problem in this game. still. after years. frikkin doors. it blows my mind. sorry for the negative vibes. it just genuinely blows my mind ;)

i'd say let the AI use the restricted system we have now and give the player more freedom then. there are many things that apply to the player but not the AI and vice versa.

i really hope this is and effort to fix ANY weirdness with seat switching. i was experiencing some weird ass behaviour when trying to switch seats in multiplayer when working on my custom action menu. no matter what weird forced methods i tried, i could never avoid people getting pushed out of the vehicle after switching seats just fine. which is a disaster when doing it while flying :D switching seats via script IN MP should just work no matter, if you use movein commands or _unit action ["MoveT... instead some weird locality priority stuff is being done that just breaks it. if someone found a good fail safe way i'd appreciate a pointer. until then i'll just wait for the much appreciated progress on this.

i dunno. i'd say neartargets outputs you some info from a not accessible scope rather than making an array for you to edit. would be too easy ;)

are we even sure knowsabout is still actually being used by the AI in a meaningful manner? i mean i know the value changes but seeing how now in arma 3 you can really make AI lose track of you (last time i played), kinda, it seems to me that the fact that knowsabout is so inflexible and undynamic alsmost hints towards it being obsolete. that's total speculation though. what i found was that the data inside neartargets is much more like what you would expect from knowsabout. especially the perceived position. accuracy seemed very useful at first too but then i realised that it's not "accurate" in the sense i expected. it was more due to me not reading the wiki properly. turned out accuracy is kind of a self judgement of how accurate the unit thinks its perceived position is. so to get a very clear value of how much the unit knows about you i started using the distance between perceived position and actual position. updates really fast and is very much like you expect. what i'm trying to say overall though is that it might be good to PM oukej or just ask in the dev AI thread. we might be barking up the wrong tree. what i'd like to see is what i just described being done engine side and injected into knowsabout , especially considering the performance difference described above. so basically i personally could 100% live without the value knowsabout gives me currently and have it display the stuff above since to me knowsabout turned out to be almost useless due to its flaws (why the fuck 1.6? and why not seamless? it's just weird). i realise it differs from person to person though since some might just need a simple first contact thing to check. sometimes i even think it's knowsabout that causes some AI problems like getting stuck in combat mode and stuff. so having them really just use the real data they have and be able to actually forget would be really great. so i'm totally for this suggestion. i just think some other changes might be even better.

yea i second that. because otherwise please just use the report button like everyone else, so one doesn't have to read a bunch of pointless shit like this thread so far.

yea totally. although it's funny how you ask me as, if BI is gonna immediately take action once a consensus is found in this thread :D it's actually what i did when testing, minus the speed change. but it felt very nice. don't get me wrong, there was still a shit load of sway. but having it recover very quickly makes it feel much more convincing and less like a weird crippling effect you have to wait out. makes it feel more like having to adjust rather than fighting a disability. indeed.

oh yea. misunderstanding. i'd rather have the devs tweak them to get rid of too extreme effects. otherwise i wouldn't be discussing here. i do it. because otherwise it's a chore. you don't have to be a genius to understand that certain anims cause less fatigue. i really appreciate the helpful attitude but i think i made it clear that finding the system lacking has nothing to do with being ignorant about how it works. that's the thing though. i don't care about realism in that regard. i want logical behaviour. the problem is that it's pointless comparing realism of certain aspects, if other aspects are totally unrealistic. attempts at realism won't solve any of the system's problems. i couldn't care less how fast i get somewhere that's hours away. i simply don't do long marches ingame. it's boring. life's too short. jogging speed is default movement speed. it's also what is used to carefully flank. no one will flank with lowered weapon and have constant weird anim switching happening when changing stance. arma just can't provide the needed fluidity that would be needed to make this work properly. it's just not practical in combat. jogg speed would not be a problem, if it would scale with load without directly causing super sway. the problems occur in situations where you can't pace yourself due to the problems and simplicity of the system i described before. and pacing yourself like that is not fun to me at all. i'd rather have the game dictate my pace properly instead of playing minigames to avoid frustrating situations. it would be much better if the pacing would just happen and the fatigue value would be reserved to control sway and sprint limits. but looking at typical arma animation problems it's kind of a scary prospect to be forced into weapon lowering. i guess i'd be fine with speed only. not convincing, when you on the one hand agree with his numbers and then go on talking about 30 meters (which i'd call midrange at least in terms of a video game). he clearly talked about <5m. also keep in mind that we shouldn't talk about this as if we're discussing each single situation ingame. i was talking about max or near max sway. hence we emphasising that it shoudl NEVER be like that no matter how fatigued. sorry but that's simply not what i would want a game to be like. especially if it's not done with cone of fire like in other games but with shakiness. i don't want to play a game where i hit 2 of 8 bullets at distance<5m. i won't bother looking up your numbers or finding others. if you want something like that, good for you. but i think it's safe to say that most people wouldn't want that. besides. no offence to any cops but i'm pretty sure the average frontline soldier is more skilled with a gun than a police officer. a. due to constant real combat practice and b. due to cops training it less due to not constantly being in combat (see a.) thus not needing to (i know they have to go to the range regularily but i think the distinction is pretty obvious). the main purpose of a soldier is combat. for cops it'S different. at least in most western countries :D and before you tell me about real soldiers' every day life please remember that we are talking about arma where you WILL get shot at.

you can't change relation of animations and their specific recovery rates at all in there. so it's pretty useless. to really mod it properly and get rid of the flaws i meantioned you HAVE to overwrite all animation classes. thx for the hint though :rolleyes: as if i hadn't looked there first... all of these are sway related. i fail to see how you want to mod fatigue with that. unless you want to nerf sway severely to mask the flaws in the way fatigue increases. sorry i wasn't expressing myself properly but your post really helped since you point out exactly what i meant. having to clunkily switch between anims doesn't make up for a proper longterm fatigue or proper short term stamina system. all arma 3 does is take what other games do and stretch it out over longer time and anims (other than sprinting) so it can deliver neither a reasonable stamina system nor a reasonable fatigue system. what you describe there is just you coping with the system over long distances where nothing is happening. let's be honest. all you are doing there is managing a drawn out stamina value that isn't any different from let's say heroes and generals' sprint limiter. it's the same as if you would sprint in short intervals there. the problem with such forced cyclic behaviour is not only that it's gamey/unconvincing and comes close to forced role playing but also that it's not even close to reality. especially the mentioned direct connection to sway. i mean i personally don't care that much about the numbers thrown around here. but if all you can give me is that it improves gameplay because it makes you "Jog weapon down for 10 seconds, walk for three, repeat" then i gotta tell you that it fails at both gameplay and realism. for example. in your described cycle, there's a big difference if you get attacked right after the jogg or right after the walk. so you are always almost getting totally exhausted, quickly recovering and repeat. does that seem right to you? that exactly the reason for situations where your avatar is going nuts without a good justification. like when you have to actually flank someone after travelling and you just happened to be at the peak of said cyclic ritual. that's why i think that fatigue should not happen when jogging. it's just not working right. and by leaving recovery on 0 there would be a penalty for not taking a quick breather after a sprint and keeping jogging afterwards. i also think controlling speed based on load rather than fatigue would not even be better for gameplay but also more realistic. with a big load the game forces you to get fatigued (getting drunk aim) by set animations when in real life you would just move slower. mostly the crazy sway. there is simply no real situation where you would move like that unless you are wounded (which the game already does) or highly intoxicated. this comes to mind :D yea there needs to be a balance ofc. but you bring up exactly what i think sway should have an influence on, only. longer distances. when you have to compensate sway in close quarters that much, you know there's something wrong. that should NEVER happen unless you are severely wounded maybe. it's those situations where in real life an intuitive general point in the right direction would do it, while in arma you have to carefully align.

yea sorry for taking it out of context that much. i was in a bad mood i guess. you still didn't get my main point though. the problem, even when just using that reasoning as a counter argument against claims of lack of realism, is that you were talking about travelling speed. i'm pretty sure that every single complaint about fatigue is not related to travelling speed but the sway caused by it. so when you say "but you can travel the distance faster then in real life" it has still nothing to with what is being complained about (the other side being as inprecise aside...i was talking about them too partly). when people bring up SF operators then because they are trying to say that even after 6 hours of travelling they wouldn't suffer from that much sway. maybe they would after a sprint for a much shorter amount of time but currently arma is far from being able to simulate that properly. so no. it's not realistic. and while it might prevent the feared "run and gun" it also messes up many other situations where it doesn't work well for gameplay nor to depict reality. do you really think people get frustrated with it after doing several hours marches ingame and then looking at their watch thinking "wtf. i should've been here earlier, this is bullshit"?... and it's not easily modded out of the game. you have two options. either make a config that replaces the entire animation tree or use "_unit enablefatigue false", which let's you sprint infinitely, which sucks, a lot. it would be great if there were separate commands for recovery and increase rate. then it would actually be modular without the need of an addon that no server will run because enablefatigue is more convenient for mission makers that don't use any other addons otherwise. another thing that could improve the system a lot would be decreasing the amplitude (or whatever) of the sway by maybe even 50%. it's just overdone no matter from what perspective you view it, because it makes it retardly difficult (pls no more videos, i can hit shit but i feel stupid while fighting the guy pulling the string that is attached to my barrel randomly) to even hit very close targets when very fatigued due to the extreme movements, when in reality you could easily hit the target just by pointing in its general direction without even squinting one eye and consciously aiming. these are the kind of details that make it feel forced and cause disconnect.

do you mean the pattern itself and how quickly it repeats? or just how long the sway lasts. when i played with the values some time ago i noticed that using the fatigue only for short term effects made everything feel much more believable. that resulted from making recovery much much faster. the problem is that the way fatigue and sway are implemented, in my opinion at least, you can only simulate short term effects properly. once you move longer it totally fails in my eyes. it would be perfect, if it was possible to just slow people down based on their load out like in RPGs. the whole idea of simulating longterm fatigue is very problematic to me at least when looking at how it'S done here.

no. you missed my point. i can shoot too. everyone can. that says NOTHING about the quality of the implementation whatsoever. so please stop posting "proof" videos. "look the game is not totally unplayable"...no shit sherlock. yea no. obviously there's only two options. arma 2 and arma 3. tweaking values is kind of a crazy idea i guess. that is totally irrelevant. people like you keep jumping from "oh it's for gameplay" and "oh it's realistic" as they please. it's fucking ridiculous. stop flip flopping and either stand behind your nonsensical reality comparisons or accept that anything is totally relativ and as you said aiming with a mouse is totally different. and who gives a fuck about what you can do in 6 hours in this game? have you guys lost your mind? you know damn well that this is about crazy effects from just flanking enemies. hell you even get weird delayed shaking from side stepping. it just isn't good. but yea. as long as you can do 6 hours tours faster than in reality it's already not "realistic" enough FPDR what does the distance you can travel have to do with overdone weapon sway and it being too tied to fatigue? please enlight me...these forums are so retarded sometimes...