Small arms aiming realism

[frederf 0]

It seems weird that the complaint is "tight groups" meaning precision unsighted... nothing to do with accuracy. If I fire an M16 unsighted 3 times in rapid succession the bullets will all hit pretty close to each other in real life as well as the game. The game's "post shooting recovery center" is rather unrealistically stable which would make groupings easier in the game than reality.

But all this is rather a back seat issue to the question of accuracy. In the game as shipped (same with OFP, ArmA1, ArmA2...) you either have the choice of crosshairs which give unsighted accuracy out to 200-300m reliably or no crosshairs which make shooting unsighted a complete gamble beyond about 5m.

Real life performance is somewhere in the middle and requires a method of aiming while unsighted that is better than "no crosshair" and worse than the uber-accurate "n00b" crosshair on easy difficulty. Designing such a crosshair should be straightforward keeping the ideal performance goals in mind.

Example

2x2m meter target. Engaged after 90 degree turn unsighted. 10 shots fired within 5 seconds. 5 trials each.

Range: 10m 40-70% of rounds hit.

Range: 25m 30-50% of rounds hit.

Range: 50m 25-40% of rounds hit.

Range: 100m 5-10% of rounds hit.

Range: 200m <5 of rounds hit.

Make a crosshair that gives this kind of unsighted shooting performance.

[STALKERGB 6]

You know what else is "unrealistic"? 3rd person view! I mean, you have to be almost dead or having an out-of-body experience to see yourself from the outside! And this game calls itself a "simulation" :rolleyes:

I believe BIS explained this by saying the situational awareness and FOV a human experiences is greater than the 1st Person view so they thought that adding 3rd person would be a solution for some people.

I personally love 3rd person view because I can see the infantry models I spent bloody ages making!

I find it very hard to hit anything without crosshairs, although sometimes I do like firing off some rounds wildly to look cool lol! I bet the AI thinks I'm well cool!

[bullet purveyor 85]

I don't think TillGrave was dead serious about his post STALKERGB... :)

[Baff1 0]

@Hyper U2

It's easy,

Get a small piece of blue tack or a felt pen.

Turn the cross hair on.

Place the bluetack on the screen at it's centre. Or draw a dot on the screen.

Turn off cross hair.

Ta da!

I can't believe anybody here actually aims down the gun in real life. I never do.

Edited July 5, 2010 by Baff1

[Daniel 0]

@Hyper U2

It's easy,

Get a small piece of blue tack or a felt pen.

Turn the cross hair on.

Place the bluetack on the screen at it's centre. Or draw a dot on the screen.

Turn off cross hair.

Ta da!

I used to use exactly that for the Huey Venom, couldn't see shit through the HUD.

[Wolfstriked 11]

@Hyper U2

It's easy,

Get a small piece of blue tack or a felt pen.

Turn the cross hair on.

Place the bluetack on the screen at it's centre. Or draw a dot on the screen.

Turn off cross hair.

Ta da!

I can't believe anybody here actually aims down the gun in real life. I never do.

LOL,priceless!Do you play PVP?

[maturin 12]

Could be that I'm a total noob but the servers I play on, do not allow crosshairs and if he says he can shoot groups at the distances where most engagements happen (150m to 350 and beyond), he must be an incredible shot! If any of you regular players can also do that without using your sights, plz explain to me how, so I can start complaining about this as well;)

With no aiming deadzone, I believe you can mark the dead center of your screen and use that as a crosshair.

[Panzer Jager 10]

No matter where you hold your gun, when the bullet leaves the barrel it's always going to go in the same direction as if you were holding the gun in some other way.

Crosshairs obviously exploit this which is why it's a good idea to turn them off for realism.

With no aiming deadzone, I believe you can mark the dead center of your screen and use that as a crosshair.

Does it really matter? You move the same speed between the ironsight mode and not.

[Wolfstriked 11]

Iron sight is super obstructive though while a dot on screen and your Rambo.BIS give us an option with dot on screen and you cant fire from it so you have to bring sight up.I use crosshair but only fire from sights...crosshair helps me to center my view on target.

[Daniel 0]

Iron sight is super obstructive

That's a matter of opinion though.

I don't really enjoy using red dot sights, I love using Irons and ACOG/SUSAT, and prefer to fight without crosshairs with a little bit of float zone.

[Wolfstriked 11]

You right,it is matter of opinion as I notice some like irons better.Still though what I meant is any sight is obstructive compared to aiming with just the crosshairs.

[Daniel 0]

You right,it is matter of opinion as I notice some like irons better.Still though what I meant is any sight is obstructive compared to aiming with just the crosshairs.

Oh, my apologies, I thought you meant red dot sights rather than crosshairs.

[Flubadoo 10]

Right click sometimes zooms in the crosshair, but sometimes it goes to ironsight for me. How do I switch between zooming in and ironsight?

[Daniel 0]

By default, you can also use Numpad 0 and Numpad + to use ironsights or zoom respectively, or you could remap the controls.

I believe double tapping right mouse changes to ironsights while simply holding it zooms. It's hard to remember when not in game.

[Elric de Melnibone 10]

I prefer the way the original Operation Flashpoint handled the sights, you actually had to press a button to bring them up - Having hundreds of actions on just the secondary mouse button is too much in my opinion, and having zoom and scope on the same button makes it somewhat wonky is well, at least in my experience.

So I just put the sights on v, like in the good old times.

Totally off-topic, I know. Hah.

Edited July 5, 2010 by Elric de Melnibone

[Wolfstriked 11]

Default is click Rmouse and optics come up...hold Rmouse and it zooms in.You go to click but hold it a fraction too long and it just zooms.Try both zoom-in and optics on "hold Rmouse".

[Elric de Melnibone 10]

Default is click Rmouse and optics come up...hold Rmouse and it zooms in.You go to click but hold it a fraction too long and it just zooms.Try both zoom-in and optics on "hold Rmouse".

Well, I'm sure you're trying to help, but I have my controls setup exactly like I want them to be setup. :)

The fact that when you hold it a second too long, it actually just zooms was what made me go back to the good old 'v' setup.

Both zoom-in and optics on hold Rmouse is a no-go for me - Some ironsights just obstruct your field of view way too much, especially when zoomed in.

So thank you for your support, but it's perfect for me as I set it up.

In addition, it suits the nostalgia I have for Flashpoint.

[Wolfstriked 11]

LOL that was mean't for Flubadoo.

With zoom in and bring up optics on hold Rmouse you can control the amount of zoom it does.Quick tap and minimal zoom/hold it and it zooms in all the way.

[Big Mac 19]

Even with the crosshair off I can usually pick targets off without looking down the sites out to about 100m, now what do we do? How about we pretend it's a game?

I bet you can make bullets turn at right angles too right?

[HyperU2 11]

I bet you can make bullets turn at right angles too right?

Sometimes.

I can even quote properly.

[Big Mac 19]

Sometimes.

I can even quote properly.

Ha ok troll.

[TillGrave 10]

I believe BIS explained this by saying the situational awareness and FOV a human experiences is greater than the 1st Person view so they thought that adding 3rd person would be a solution for some people.

I personally love 3rd person view because I can see the infantry models I spent bloody ages making!

I find it very hard to hit anything without crosshairs, although sometimes I do like firing off some rounds wildly to look cool lol! I bet the AI thinks I'm well cool!

Oh dude you totally took that literally:D, I love the 3rd person view and totally agree with the devs reasons to include it in the game. I was just being a smart@$$. I think it really makes the immersion that much better. One problem I had with OF-DR was the mandatory 1st person view. I love this game and really cant find anything to complain out loud about (even the AI isnt as bad as some people on these forums make it seem, well sometimes it is...)ok. my 2 cents. peace.:bounce3: