U.s. socom

[E6Hotel 0]

IceFire:

The link in the last post gives a basic outline of the rank structure.  You may have noticed a couple of strange things in the chart:

Gunnery Sergeants (E7s) have to decide between 2 career paths.  The first option is to continue in their MOS, in which case they would be promoted to Master Sergeant (E8) and ultimately Master Gunnery Sergeant (E9).  The other option is to go into the Command-related billets, First Sergeant (E8) and Sergeant Major (E9).  First Sergeants are the senior enlisted in a Company, and serve as the Company Commander's advisor.  Sergeants Major serve a similar role at the Batallion and Division levels.  Every four years, a hard-charging Sergeant Major is selected as the Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps, and serves as the Commandant's advisor on enlisted matters.  (Both paths pay the same and rate the same benefits, but there is a small resentment factor, because there's no such thing as the Master Gunnery Sergeant of the Marine Corps.  Heh.)

Warrant Officers rank between enlisted and commissioned.  In the Corps, Warrant Officers are the technical experts in their fields, and are appointed from the enlisted ranks.  Candidates must have at least 8 years time in service to be eligible.  The majority of Army WO's (correct me if I'm wrong, USSoldier11B) serve as helo pilots, but all USMC aviators are commissioned.  There aren't many WO's, but when they're around they're pretty much running the show (unofficially, of course).

Semper Fi

[IceFire 0]

So um, how do those ranks rate?

Which ranks do you stop being normal grunts and then become officer, and then how high does that go to?

Basically what are they?

Ok here goes an assumption.

I am assuming the E means "Enlisted", W means "warrant"(what is that?), O means "officer"?

I dunno.

What does Enlisted mean? I hear it all the time, but I always just meant that you get the orders, and officers are the big shots that give them and are really prestigious?

I dunno, I just am curious about what it all means.

[IceFire 0]

And another thing, I could be completely wrong, correct me where needed.

But I assume that when in the military, the longer you are in, you eventually raise through the ranks, but that takes long.

If someone goes through OCS, then they just get into a program where they automatically rank faster?  Or just get an advance rank?

And they also get special training in how to be an officer if they go to OCS?

Any help to clear that up would be appreciated.  Sorry about all the questions.  Just keep in mind I'm just a lowly civilian (heh) who doesn't really know too much about the way the military works (YET, hopefully).

Thanks!

[scout 0]

ok, heres how it goes in most armies:

u can either go through officers school and then start from the rank of 2nd Lt. or start from a private and go through the ranks of Non-com.

u can become an officer any time if u take officers school.

in our military, u have to be a sargent and pass squad ldr. school BEFORE being allowed to continue to officers school, but in the US it doesnt work like that.

[Guest]

In Sweden we have the following NCO ranks (depending on which branch of the military):

Menig - Private

Korpral - Corporal

Furir - Sergeant

Överfurir - Staff Sergeant (no new appointments since '92)

Sergeant - Master Sergeant

Fanjunkare - First Sergant (no new appointments since '92)

Värnpliktig färnik - enlisted second lieutenant

---

Officers:

Fänrik - second lieutenant

Löjtnant - first lieutenant

Kapten - captain

Major - major

Överstelöjtnant - lieutenant colonel

Överste - colonel

Brigadgeneral . Brigadier General

Generalmajor - Major General

Generallöjtnant - Lieutenant General

General - General

The last NCO rank is the same as "Fänrik - second lieutenant", but without going to the academy, so to say.

You get the rank depending on how long you are in the military, and if you choose/are allowed to get command training. We also have a principle of that after you leave the military you are put in the "war-reserve" and promoted up one step.

Example: After my squad leader training, I got the rank "Korpral" and after the platoon leader training "Furir".

When I left the military (after 14 months), I got promoted to "Sergeant", and that was the rank I held when I re-enlisted to go to Kosovo. After Kosovo I got promoted to "värnpliktig fänrik", and that will be my rank if Sweden goes to war.

They cannot force you to take the NCO training since it means about 5 extra months in the military.

[Tydium 0]

In Finland the rank structure is the following:

Suomi                     Offical                     US

                            Translation

Officers

Kenraali                   General                    General

Kenraaliluutnantti      Lt. General               Lt. General

Kenraalimajuri          Maj. General            Maj. General

Prikaatinkenraali       Brigadier General     Brigadier General

Eversti                     Colonel                    Colonel

Everstiluutnantti        Lt. Colonel               Lt. Colonel

Majuri                      Major                      Major

Kapteeni                  Captain                   Captain

Yliluutnantti              Senior Lieutenant      n/a

Luutnantti                 Lieutenant              1st Lieutenant

Vänrikki                   2nd Lieutenant        2nd Lieutenant

NCO's

Sotilasmestari          Chief Warrant Officer           Sergeant Major

Ylivääpeli (*            (Senior Warrant Officer)       Master Sergeant

Vääpeli                   Warrant Officer                    Sergeant first class

Ylikersantti              Staff Sergeant                     Staff Sergeant

Kersantti                 Sergeant                            Sergeant

Alikersantti              Corporal                             Corporal

Rank and File

korpraali                  Lance Corporal                   Private First Class

sotamies                  Private                               Private

Now this is the basic layout. There are several exeptions (like enlistees, MCS's etc) but I'm not going to explain them now.

The offical translation shows how Finnish army translatates its ranks in UN service.

(*  The rank of Ylivääpeli (senior warrant officer) no longer exist in FDF. It was removed in early 1990s

Corporal is a NCO in FDF and acts as a squad leader. I'm not sure if it's a

NCO rank in US and UK armies where squad leader is usually a sergeant.

Nowadays there aren't any active NCO's serving in FDF.

The rank you get depends of your training. After the basic training (8 weeks) the choices are made to the NCO school. They will ask you do you want to go, but this doesn't mean anything. Because you can be ordered to go (Nowadays this is a problem because the service times in FDF are 6,9,12 months. NCO school is 12 and if you don't go you will probably get out in 6 months). NCO school is divided in two parts. First part last 7 weeks and after this the best are send to the Reserve Officers school witch will last 14 weeks. The rest will continue to the 2nd part of the NCO school and it will last 9 weeks. So NCO school in total is 16 weeks and Reserve officer school 21 weeks. Student in the NCO school is called underofficer student (Offical translation). After they graduate NCO school they will be promoted to corporals. Student in reserve officer school is called Officer student (equivalent to the corporal) and after the Reserve officer school they are promoted to the Officer Cadet (equivalent to the sergeant). And on the last day the Officer Cadets are promoted to 2nd Lieutenants. Few corporals are promoted to sergeants during the last 6 months. And few privates are promoted to lance corporals. After the schools corporals and Officer cadets will spend rest of their service time leading a squad or platoon and practicing the skill they have learned. Some are trained to some special jobs.

When your time is up you will be moved to the reserves with the rank you are holding. So the aren't any automatic promotion.

If you are interested to learn more about FDF download and read the:

Facts about the Finnish Defence Forces (3.7 MB)

It's PDF so you will need acrobat reader.

[E6Hotel 0]

IceFire:

You’re right about the E/W/O.  I’ll try to break down the relationship between USMC ranks for you (much of this should be applicable to all the services, but I’m not sure).

In VERY general terms, here is the relationship between the ranks:

Commissioned Officers receive a “commission†from the POTUS placing “special faith and confidence†in them, which is the source of an officer’s command authority.  There are several ways to obtain a commission:

-- Naval Academy graduates can opt to become Navy Ensigns or Marine Second Lieutenants (both O1’s).

-- College students or graduates can (if selected) attend OCS in Quantico, VA.  Officer Candidate’s School could be considered officer’s boot camp, with one big difference.  Enlisted boot camp is designed to get recruits into good physical condition and instill “instant and willing obedience†to orders.  In contrast, an officer candidate has to already be in good shape to make it to OCS.  This is because the focus in OCS is to train candidates how to lead, not follow.  Physical conditioning is more or less a given.

-- Enlisted Marines have several programs designed to help them earn commissions.  Some are for Marines who already have their bachelor’s degrees, while others prepare Marines for college classes and actually send them to school while they’re on active duty.  Like the options above, Marines are commissioned only after completing OCS.

(A helpful hint for you: If you ever see an officer wearing a Good Conduct Ribbon it means he’s a Mustang; only enlisted Marines receive that award.)

After completing OCS, all newly appointed Second Lieutenants attend The Basic School (TBS), also in Quantico.  TBS lasts 6 months and is designed to teach EVERY Marine officer, regardless of MOS, how to lead an infantry unit.  After TBS, the officer attends an MOS school (possibly flight training), and eventually reports to his first unit.

Enlisted Marines fall into 3 different categories.

“Non-rates†are the Privates, Privates First Class (PFC’s), and Lance Corporals.  (Personally, I always hated the term “non-rate,†as it sounds derogatory to me.  I say “Lance Corporals and below.â€)  These guys are the worker bees, and make up the majority of the Corps.

Corporals and Sergeants are Non-Commissioned Officers (NCO’s).  These ranks could be considered entry-level management.  Here, your responsibilities begin to shift from carrying out orders to ensuring that orders are carried out.  You’re also tasked with taking care of the junior Marines working for you.  This is not always an easy job, and there’s an old saying that summarizes what it’s like to work with the lower ranks:  “Put a PFC in a padded room with two steel ball bearings, and in 5 minutes he’ll lose one and break the other.† They’re not all like that, but many are basically kids, and they will keep you on your toes.  One other thing, completely unrelated -- Marine NCO’s and SNCO’s are the only enlisted members of the U.S. military who are still authorized to carry swords.  

Staff Non-commissioned Officers (SNCO’s) are enlisted Marines in the paygrades E6 – E9.  Your responsibilities are similar to NCO’s, except you also need to ensure that the NCO’s are performing.  SNCO’s also work more closely with officers.  With senior officers you serve as an advisor, while with junior officers you are a mentor.  Let’s take an infantry platoon for example.  A brand new Second Lieutenant checks in and is assigned a rifle platoon.  Make no mistake; the Lt (pronounced “El-teeâ€) is in charge.  However, the Platoon Sgt’s job is to provide practical experience and guidance so that the Lt can learn the ropes.  A related joke: What are the most frightening words a platoon sergeant can hear?  A 2nd Lt beginning a sentence with “In my experience …â€

There are no “instant NCO†schools in the USMC.  The only ways to pick up enlisted rank is with time and experience, or by meritorious promotion for superior performance.  There ARE schools designed to provide Marines with the additional skills they need as they’re promoted:

-- Corporal’s Course

-- Sergeant’s Course

-- Squad leader's course (for grunt NCO's)

-- Career Course (for Staff Sergeants)

-- Platoon sergeant's course (for grunt SNCO's)

-- Advanced Course (for Gunnery Sergeants)

The traditional difference between officers and enlisted was that officers had degrees and enlisted didn’t, but that is no longer true.  There are plenty of enlisted Marines with degrees (including me) who choose not to pursue a commission.  

Warrant Officers receive “warrants†instead of commissions, and are the “middle ground†between enlisted and commissioned officers.  All WO’s are selected from the enlisted ranks based on their technical expertise, and must have a minimum of 8 years time in service to be eligible.  “Gunner†is the slang term for WO’s, but that is technically inaccurate -- a Gunner is actually an infantry WO who serves as a Battalion Commander’s weapons employment expert.  A 22-year old 2nd Lt outranks a Chief Warrant Officer (5) with 30 years of experience, but as you can imagine, the “advice†of a WO is usually followed.  Another joke: What are the most frightening words a Captain can hear?  One CWO telling another CWO to “Watch this sh!t.â€

At the risk of completely blowing your mind, some MOS’s have Limited Duty Officers (LDO’s).  These are especially qualified WO’s that receive commissions as Captains and can then progress up the commissioned officer ranks.

Semper Fi

[Guest]

I have a question for you marines out there:

I just saw Kubrick's "Full Metal Jacket" for like the 10th time, and it always makes me wonder if your drill sergeants on Parris Island are as mean as the one in the movie.

And yes, we got our fair share of abuse from the our drill instructors during the basic training, but nothing compared to what is portrayed in the movie.

[usnst 0]

This topic is far too long, and i didn't read 9 pages to see if this was discussed, but grey fox there is a direct enlistment option available for those who wish to be guranteed a "path" to becoming special forces in the army. Notice i say "path" because as 11 bravo mentioned earlier it is not a real picnic. My advice to you is to go to college for at LEAST two years and get some age and maturity (i know i sound like your dad). Then you can go in higher in rank, and you'll have some experience being away from home etc. SF is not all macho guns and glory. To even be considered you have to take a test called the DLAB, (language test you can not study for) and let me tell you it is not anywhere near the ASVAB. I scored 93 on the ASVAB and had line scores all above 120, but left the DLAB thinking i had failed it. So all i have to say to anyone thinking about SF, or maybe even the military in general, try going to college if that is at all possible first, then go into the service if you like.

[E6Hotel 0]

Denoir:

"I just saw Kubrick's "Full Metal Jacket" for like the 10th time, and it always makes me wonder if your drill sergeants on Parris Island are as mean as the one in the movie."

FYI:  Don't call them Drill Sergeants, they're Drill INSTRUCTORS.  Let's just say they're "intense."  Actually, you'd be surprised at how professional they are.  No more hitting recruits, and they aren't even allowed to swear.  They use a lot of "Gol-darns" and "Freakings," though.  I actually witnessed one of my DI's get relieved for two days because he said "f@ck" in front of the Series Commander.  Believe me, a DI doesn't have to punch you to get your attention -- he'll just have you do 8-count body builders and mountain climbers until you puke your guts up.

BTW:  I noticed that you hold the rank of Enlisted Second Lieutenant.  Could you expain the difference between that and a regular Second Lieutenant?

Semper Fi

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (E6Hotel @ April 21 2002,02:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I noticed that you hold the rank of Enlisted Second Lieutenant.  Could you expain the difference between that and a regular Second Lieutenant?<span id='postcolor'>

It's simple. The difference is that a 'regular' second lieutenant (fänrik) gets that rank after attending the military academy. An enlisted second lieutenant (värnpliktig fänrik) is just an NCO. The enlisted second lieutenant can't be promoted any higher during peacetime while for the regular it is the first step for higher ranks. I think that what you call a warrent officer is about the same thing as our enlisted second lieutenant. For all other practical purposes they are the same.

You see, in Sweden (as in most of Europe), all enlisted men are conscripts. We don't have professional NCOs. The people that are employed by the Swedish military are all officers (or reserve officers), and have finished the military academy.

[E6Hotel 0]

Denoir:

Yes, sounds like our WO's. Theoretical question for you: During wartime could you be promoted to another officer rank? If so, would you revert back to Enlisted 2nd Lt afterwards?

Semper Fi

[ralphwiggum 6]

let me back usnst's comment regarding attending college.

AFAIS, getting college (and possibly graduate) education is an invaluable investment for yourself. it costs f!@#ing lot to go through 4 yrs of painstaking courses. however, end result is rewarding. you get to see better of yourself, and get yourself to help yourself and advance your knowledge and self.

this does not mean going to military is useless. if you don't have guts to discipline yourself through 4yrs of college, military will help you.

but nonetheless, never underestimate power of brain. in any social organization, being able to think and act appropriately never hurt.

[scout 0]

E6Hotel - there are numerous cases when NCO's became officers during combat, the most famous story is a person in our military who is today a division CO and was promoted solely upon his personal performanc although he didnt pass officers school he is one professional soldier!

and in our military u dont revert back to your peace time rank, that a total disrespect for the deeds of a dedicated soldier. he earned that rank rightiously no?

[E6Hotel 0]

Scout:

The reason I ask is that after WWII, the U.S. military was downsized considerably, and some battlefield commissions were indeed revoked.  I don't know if battlefield commissions exist in the Swedish Army (for example), and am curious about how the situation would be handled.

Semper Fi

[scout 0]

well, there isnt that much meaning to ranks in the IDF especially in the reserves, but a rank u've earned, uve earned by doing someting extraordinary no? so its kind of respect ur getting from the army. to take it back is in my eyes an insult, and ive read about it, i was quite amazed.

i dont mean to insult anyone but thats a paperpushers action who's whole goal is balance the godman dooks, and thats your army has fallen to pen-warriors claws.

(i dont like paperpushers). i dunno, that make me feel crappy i guess, like a personnal insult.

[E6Hotel 0]

Scout:

Easy, Turbo!  I'm not arguing the merit of battlefield commissions; obviously if you're good enough to be an officer in wartime you should be good enough to be one in peacetime.  However, Denoir has already stated that the professional military in Sweden consists of officers that have graduated from their military academy.  I just want to know, would this hold true following a war?

Merely trying to reduce my ignorance!

Semper Fi

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (E6Hotel @ April 21 2002,03:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Denoir:

Yes, sounds like our WO's.  Theoretical question for you:  During wartime could you be promoted to another officer rank?  If so, would you revert back to Enlisted 2nd Lt afterwards?

Semper Fi<span id='postcolor'>

Yes we have war time promotions, and yes, you get to keep your rank

The quickest way of climbing up the NCO ranks is to join peace keeping missons that Sweden is involved in. This is beacause of the strange fact that they always (if possible) promote you when you *leave* the military. The peace keeping missions are usually for six months and then your employment with the military ends and you get promoted. Next time you can join another peace keeping mission and get promoted again...

[Wobble 1]

The quickest way of climbing up the NCO ranks is to join peace keeping missons that Sweden is involved in. This is beacause of the strange fact that they always (if possible) promote you when you *leave* the military. The peace keeping missions are usually for six months and then your employment with the military ends and you get promoted. Next time you can join another peace keeping mission and get promoted again...

this reminds me of my work.. there are 2 major plants near.. Dupont and Formosa.. the fastest way to get more money is to work at Dupont for 6 months.. quit.. go to foromose.. your exprence get syour higher pay than you had at dupont.. work there for 6 months.. quit.. go to dupont.. your experence at both dupont and formost gets you even MORE pay.. etc etc etc..

[ralphwiggum 6]

yup..just like aerospace engineers!

[Tydium 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

The quickest way of climbing up the NCO ranks is to join peace keeping missons that Sweden is involved in. This is beacause of the strange fact that they always (if possible) promote you when you *leave* the military. The peace keeping missions are usually for six months and then your employment with the military ends and you get promoted. Next time you can join another peace keeping mission and get promoted again...

<span id='postcolor'>

Yes it really sounds strange. Do you know where this originates ?

In FDF there are certain rules for reserve promotions. It must be at least 5 years from your previous promotion and you need to have certain amount of refreshment training days between the promotions. But the promotion is not automatic. So even if you meet both criterias it doesn't meen that you will be promoted.

For active officers it's 2 years if my memory serves me correctly. And for higher ranks they need to have certain cources etc.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tydium @ April 21 2002,10:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

The quickest way of climbing up the NCO ranks is to join peace keeping missons that Sweden is involved in. This is beacause of the strange fact that they always (if possible) promote you when you *leave* the military. The peace keeping missions are usually for six months and then your employment with the military ends and you get promoted. Next time you can join another peace keeping mission and get promoted again...

<span id='postcolor'>

Yes it really sounds strange. Do you know where this originates ?<span id='postcolor'>

I don't think that they had peace keeping missions in mind when they introduced the rule. The point was probably that after you have served your time as a private for instance that if we go to war you get the rank of PFC. It is not designed for re-enlisting several times..

[Tydium 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

I don't think that they had peace keeping missions in mind when they introduced the rule. The point was probably that after you have served your time as a private for instance that if we go to war you get the rank of PFC. It is not designed for re-enlisting several times..

<span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

We also have a principle of that after you leave the military you are put in the "war-reserve" and promoted up one step.

<span id='postcolor'>

OK, this brings me to another question. You explained in your previous post that when your service time is up you will be moved to reserves and promoted. So do you also promote all privates to PFC when they are moved to reserves. If so then you don't have any privates on reserves only PFC's ?

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tydium @ April 21 2002,11:04)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">OK, this brings me to another question. You explained in your previous post that when your service time is up you will be moved to reserves and promoted. So do you also promote all privates to PFC when they are moved to reserves. If so then you don't have any privates on reserves only PFC's ?<span id='postcolor'>

Yepp, that is correct. We also have a thing called "utbildningsreserv" - a training reserve, where people who don't have to do any service time (about 60% of the male population today) are placed from age 18-30. In case of war they get called in and get a quick training. They are then the privates (+those that are currently doing their service and havnt yet been moved to the reserves - about 10 000 men).

Anyway, the system wasnt designed for peace keeping missions, so if I hadnt been in Kosovo, I would be in the reserves with the rank of Sergeant. Instead I got to use that rank in Kosovo (well, I didn't actually get to use it much since my duties were mostly civilian). After Kosovo, I was moved to the reserve with the rank of "värpliktig fänrik" (enlisted second lieutenant). So, if I decide to join another peace keeping thingie that is the rank I will have. I doubt that I can be promoted anymore since it is the highest NCO rank in the Swedish military, so no luck there.

[DarkLight 0]

I found something on the net, it's a guy replying to a kid's letter where he says he wants to join the army.

This is about snipers but i guess it can be used for every type of soldier. I was pretty impressed when i first read this....

Try to imagine the worst way of life you can. Now, multiply that times 14. Now square it. Now add 400. That being done, you're nowhere NEAR what it's like to be in the military as an enlisted man, or as an officer. Headaches, B.S., undeserved blame, screaming, B.S., crappy hours, little or NO free time, questionable quality in food, heat, cold, humidity, dryness, clothes that don't fit right, B.S., someone trying to kill you, someone saying that you kill children for fun, digging up landmines, emplacing landmines, checking landmines, B.S., equipment made by the lowest bidder (to ESPECIALLY include your weapons), MORE undeserved blame, urinalysis tests, poking, prodding, physical testing, academic testing, studying, studying, studying, studying, studying, studying, studying, studying, teaching (yes, teaching), following unreasonable (though "legal") orders, following stupid (though "legal") orders, following deadly (though "legal") orders, ISSUING unreasonable (though "legal") orders, ISSUING stupid (though "legal") orders, ISSUING deadly (though "legal") orders, B.S., bugs crawling on you, bugs feeding off of you, bugs KILLING you, germs KILLING you, toxic gases KILLING you... oh, and did you say you wanted to be a sniper? Oh, well, in that case, you can also add:

Little or no support in an operation you're on that goes bad, crapping in your pants and urinating in your pants because you can't run off to a latrine because you'll blow your stalk or give away your hide, running out of food, equipment that was built by the lowest bidder (including your weapons AND optics), failure to receive credit unless you've got a "confirmed" kill, watching through your scope as the bullet you just launched takes off the head, from the nose up, your target -- then LIVING with what you've done, and doing it AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN -- bugs, bugs, bugs, and more bugs... bugs you've got on you that you CAN'T swat for tactical reasons, bugs that can kill you, bugs that you've got to eat because you've run out of food (did I mention little or NO support while you're on a mission?), if you're caught you could be sliced, diced, tortured, raped (yes, raped), skinned alive and then killed "just because" you're a sniper (snipers get "special" treatment by the enemy).

You should NOT join the military because you'll be given financial assistance for college, or because you'll receive job training, because you'll get a steady paycheck, or because your girlfriend will think you look snazzy in uniform. Nobody JOINS the military to become Rambo, they GET OUT because they're Rambo. The military is NOT the place for John Rambo. If you've never read "Murphy's Laws of Combat," you should. You really should

Sniping isn't just killing people. It's B.S., too. You can't forget the B.S., because it's always there, no matter what rank or job you have. As a sniper, you're an intelligence gatherer, you make and file reports, you have to NOT engage targets that you "know" you should (because your unreasonable-but-legal orders forbid it), and all the time... someone is trying to hunt YOU down, to kill YOU, because YOU'RE a SNIPER! Fun? It's not fun, it's B.S., and it's just a job. Snipers support the mission, support the commander, and save lives. It's tough work and it's not glamorous.

Why should you become a sniper? Carlos Hathcock said it best, that the job picks the man, not the other way around. Believe it. You hear and read about all the "successful" snipers. What if you're not one of them. What if you turn into some psychotic killer? What if you end up beating your wife, using drugs, abusing your children, and living off welfare. It happens, and I've SEEN it happen. Killing people is "grown up" business, it's NOT for kids. If you ARE a kid, you WON'T be after you're first kill. Never again. No more innocence. You can't go back. If you really do want to be a sniper, do it because snipers SAVE lives, not because you want to kill. Also, in your letter to my friend, you referred to Vietnamese people using the "G" word... and I want to comment on that.

It is ALMOST a "necessity" to objectify your enemy in war, for many reasons including psychological ones, because it makes it easier to kill them. A "little" easier. Remember, however, that the guy whose head you're about to take off might have a wallet with pictures of his wife, his kids, his daughter's first birthday party, a letter from his mom telling him that she's worried about him, maybe a letter from his wife saying that she's divorcing him to marry the guy she's been having the affair with while he was gone serving his country. Maybe he's had a hard day. Maybe he's been eating bugs, too, because HE'S gotten "little or no support," and so on. And now, you're about to kill him. See, he's really not a "G" word, he's a human being who isn't going to ever see his family, his friends, or mow his yard or play with his dog ever again. He's NOT a "G" word, he's a person. Remember that. Think what you have to in order to do the job, but when it's over, really over, remember that the "targets" you "serviced" were once living people, and they aren't anymore because of YOU. Period.

If you want to be a sniper, try for the job, and if your instructors think you have what it takes, fine. If, however, they say you don't pass the course, then... move on! Have something else to fall back on! Exercise your options! Again, like Carlos said, the job picks the man, not the other way around. If the job DOESN'T pick you, then "get a life" and MOVE ON! Snipers are a special breed, yes, but if you aren't a sniper it doesn't mean you're a piece of dirt. It just means what it means... that you aren't a sniper.

So, why SHOULD you join the military? I'll give you three reasons. Because you love your country, you love your country, and because you love your country.